Recent recorded dogfight video

[TorwaK]

 

Translation of Turkish pilots conversation:

 

1st Pilot: - Well you're runaway ha...

1st Pilot: - You're front of me no way. (speaking hardly because of getting high G at this moment)

2nd Pilot: - Continue to make him go at low altitude (advicing to 1st pilot)

1st Pilot: - Copy that.

2nd Pilot: - Roger that.

2nd Pilot: - Don't lose the bandits (at the moment there is more than 2 bandits)

1st Pilot: - On my way

2nd Pilot: - Roger that

2nd Pilot: - Wing commander is speaking, "Ground control, do not declare informations (because of recording the movie), now its PLAY TIME!"

 

Disclaimer: It's a dogfight between Turkish & Greek airforces, if you don't want watch it just ignore the link.

[Aeroscout]

Just a question. are these real engagements? or is this simply practice?

[TorwaK]

are these real engagements?

 

yeap.

[EscCtrl]

Just a question. are these real engagements? or is this simply practice?

 

Both, they have constant face-offs to show who's best but it can get rough and once two enemy F-16s collided. The Turk survived and no one knows what happened to the Greek (according to wiki).

 

The countries don't get on well but aren't officially at war I don't think.

 

 

 

EDIT: are you sure Torwak? Do they ever fire live ammunition?

[TorwaK]

I understood what you read about it at wiki... the point is there is a informal intelligence report which is didn't publish to public. I heard the real story from one of my pilot friend.

 

As you know both side is armed during this flights. When this case happened which you told me, there was 2 Turkish and 2 Greek F-16C planes. They came cross at somewhere at aegean sea and started to make dogfight. During dogfights 1st Turkish F-16C pilot is locked to 1st Greek F-16C and started to chase. At this moment 2nd Greek F-16C pilot started to chase 1st Turkish F-16C pilot who's chasing the 1st Greek F-16C. Nobody knows what happened at this moment with accident or something else but 2nd Greek F-16 pilot shot down to Turkish 1st F-16 and Turkish pilot is ejected and survived. At this moment 2nd Turkish F-16C locked and shot down to 2nd Greek F-16 plane too cause of situation, unfortunatelly Greek pilot whos name is Kostas Iliakis died. After that Turkish SAR chopper is take out and survived to 1st Turkish F-16C pilot, but couldnt find the 2nd Greek plane pilot. I read about that firstly Turkish SAR chopper arrived there and 15 minutes they looked for Greek pilot to survive him. Even Turkish SAR chopper didn't have enough fuel to return to base.

 

The thing is everybody believes here that 2nd Greek F-16 pilot is made a mistake and selected wrong switch to lock on. In F-16's cockpit there is 3 selection to fire a missile. First one is real mode, second is SIM (simulation), third is disarm. Turkish pilot who shot down by 2nd Greek pilot believes that Greek pilot(Kostas Iliakis) made a mistake because got too excited and selected wrong switch which is real mode and fired to sidewinder missile.

 

Anyway... Turkish goverment made an formal explanation that "During flight Greek pilot crashed from behind to Turkish F-16 and unfortunatelly 2nd Greek pilot Kostas Iliakis is died." Thats all.

[Groove]

Imho both side are stupid to make such dogfights armed. In the end they are both NATO members...

[Aeroscout]

In the end they are both NATO members...

 

That surprised me to. I had no idea that there is a conflict between the 2 countries... Really surprising to me...

 

Any idea what started the conflict? or was it just violation of each other's airspace?

[TorwaK]

At 2002 Greek parliaments made a decision that Greek island sea borders will increase to 12km from 6km. Already some of Greek islands are almost near our cities like there is 15km max some of them. Thats mean if Turkish ship leave harbor and go to open sea, they must pay tax to Greece because of there is Greek border starts. :doh:

 

It's the same America tells to Canada move your border 12km inside because we need more space, what a ridiculous. Anyway, Turkey deliver a nfr to Greece and said if you try to do that you have to accept to results. So Greece goverment a step back in this case it's stayed like that.

 

The thing is all time Greek politicians do that when elections soon. It's a habit for them. Everybody knows that here so we don' t take it serious.:vertag:

[No Fear]

Torwak I don't know why but you keep distorting the truth and are not being objective or accurate once more (like that time in another topic when you presented a video about a...Mirage-2000 crash,when in fact was a Mirage F1CG that had happened back in 1992!).

 

In this case you are desribing now (about last May's incident),the planes involved weren't only 2 Greek F-16s and 2 Turkish F-16s.You seem to be forgetting (or maybe you don't know) that there was also a Turkish RF-4 that your F-16s were escorting.

 

And the things that you say when you describe the incident couldn't be further from the truth;as usual Greek planes try to get the numbers from your planes and one of your F-16s pilot while trying to prevent that from happening made a careless manuevre and crashed on one of our F-16s.Our pilot evidently was killed instantly while your pilot managed to eject safely.A Greek SAR helicopter was first at the scene and tried to pick him up but not only he refused to allow this but he also pulled a pistol on the rescue crew!He was shortly after picked up by a nearby ship.And the whole incident was videotaped.

 

Also,all the things you say about the extension of the Greek sea-air border to 12Km from 6km is a lie.There has been thought about it (as it is our right according to international laws) but this has not been implemented.

Even if it was,the areas that are really near the Turkish border (and of course there are such areas) will be excluded from such an extension.So need to worry or use this as an excuse.And civil/modern countries do not threat each other with war whenever there is a problem,OK?

 

As far as your effort to imply that these things are due to the upcoming elections I have to say that it is the other way around;there are no elections imminent for Greece but they are for Turkey,right?

 

And this kind of...tricks (to sway public opinion from other problems/issues) is not practised by a real democracy like Greece.These trick are however practised by so called democracies (that are in fact military regimes if not dictatorships) who do exactly that;try to persuade the Turkish people that the main problem and main enemy is Greece!I think you have many big problems and the least of those is Greece.

 

Your country has never been a...model neighbour.You have had problems with virtually every neighbouring country (Greece,Cyprus,Bulgaria,Iran,Syria to name but a few).So don't try to present it otherwise.

 

By the way,why so much hate for a country (Greece) of 11.500.000 people when your country is about 65.000.000 people.What does such a big country like yours have to worry about?

 

In conclusion let me tell you something.I have noticed your frantic efforts to sell the cheapest kind of propaganda many times.Do you really think that people are so naive and can't put two and two together?

I remember in another post you said:'Greek brothers,don't take it the wrong way and don't be offended'.

 

This is the post:

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=22736

 

If you really see Greeks as your friends/brothers why do you keep posting videos that are provocative and ridiculous?

The titles of most of these videos (e.g. 'Hunting over the Aegean' etc) are insulting.And not to mention every Turk's obsession with the Mirage-2000!

 

I'd better stop somewhere here as this is getting long but try (for a change) to see things objectively and fairly or try to check your sources because they have proved unreliable in the past.

[Groove]

Guys, just dont start some kind of flamewar here. Its just an advise because Alfas banstick is very sensitive on political flames.

 

Otherwise we all are interested in some enlight on this "conflict".

[No Fear]

Guys, just dont start some kind of flamewar here. Its just an advise because Alfas banstick is very sensitive on political flames.

 

Otherwise we all are interested in some enlight on this "conflict".

 

 

I never start these things and I always try to be objective(just check my posts in similar threads).But at some point these kind of cheap,provocative,war-mongering,one-sided propaganda must be answered.

[TorwaK]

Nobody hates Greek here you can be sure. In my opinion just need to respect the country borders and air space than everything will be fine.:thumbup:

[No Fear]

Nobody hates Greek here you can be sure. In my opinion just need to respect the country borders and air space than everything will be fine.:thumbup:

 

Torwak believe me I don't hate Turkish people either.

 

But when I see the facts being twisted and truth taking a beating then I have no other choice but to speak my mind.

 

I have said it many times in the past Torwak;war cannot be a solution for our countries when both have other issues to deal with.

 

As far as the respect of country borders,all I can say is this;do you people over there really believe that you have anything to worry about as far as Greece is concerned?What do you think,that a country of 11.500.000 million people will attack a country of about 65.000.000 million people?

 

And rest assure;Greece respects your border.But don't show these kind of videos anymore.You see what happens in other sites with this kind of thing?

 

PS:The video you posted shows Greek(?) planes as aggressors/bandits and Turkish planes as the defenders?That's a good one.Maybe there should be a sub-forum with jokes for you to post it...

[TorwaK]

Guys, just dont start some kind of flamewar here. Its just an advise because Alfas banstick is very sensitive on political flames.

 

Otherwise we all are interested in some enlight on this "conflict".

 

I don't think that here is something can provide to get banned. Modern people can discuss everything with nice level if you ask me.

[TorwaK]

Torwak believe me I don't hate Turkish people either.

 

Already I didn't think about it... why people needs to hate each other, especially two neighbours. It's completely wrong.

 

But when I see the facts being twisted and truth taking a beating then I have no other choice but to speak my mind.

 

I have said it many times in the past Torwak;war cannot be a solution for our countries when both have other issues to deal with.

 

As far as the respect of country borders,all I can say is this;do you people over there really believe that you have anything to worry about as far as Greece is concerned?What do you think,that a country of 11.500.000 million people will attack a country of about 65.000.000 million people?

 

Nobody is going to attack each other please erase it from your mind. Meanwhile I want to learn your opinion very much about what Greek people think about Makarios and EOKA in Grecee?

 

And rest assure;Greece respects your border.But don't show these kind of videos anymore.You see what happens in other sites with this kind of thing?

 

The thing is I wrote there a disclamier about video, if it disturbs you why did you open buddy? It's a dogfight only... nobody shot down or hurted. Only simulation as like Greek pilots make.

 

PS:The video you posted shows Greek(?) planes as aggressors/bandits and Turkish planes as the defenders?That's a good one.Maybe there should be a sub-forum with jokes for you to post it...

 

Bandits word is a just term. Even I use this term about football team which I don't like here, especially about Fenerbahce :smilewink: If it disturbed you sorry about it.

[GGTharos]

Torwak, I think the point was well made ... you're treading on relatively thin ice.

 

It isn't your fault, it's just the way things are.

[No Fear]

Torwak,either you can't understand certain things or you don't want to.

 

Before you start asking me questions,I think you'd better start answering mine first.I noticed that this kind of behaviour is typical of you.You did the same in other similar threads.But when there is 'argument' there is counter-argument.

 

Think for a moment what would happen if every Turk or Greek posted this kind of videos(not that I would allow myself to lower my standards and level to this point!).The rest of the members would never see the end of it!

 

It is one thing for someone to post say,two 'dogfight' videos (one from each side) and it is another to post videos entitled 'Rulers of the Aegean' or 'Hunting over the Aegean' etc.Man,95+% of the Aegean is Greek,so who are the rulers and what in God's name are you...hunting over it?And since the Aegean sea is in its vast majority Greek how come you are its defenders and Greeks are the...bandits?Talk about science fiction stories!

 

 

And in all these videos (as I have said in the past) you cannot tell which countries planes are participating.

 

On top of that,and despite your initial comments in this post,you go on with the usual propaganda and one-sided,non-objective story that rarely has any credibility whatsoever.

 

I think it's time you realized the mistakes you make when you post stuff like that and did something about it!

 

 

PS:I apologize to the rest of the forum but I just had to set the record straight.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Sorry, but both of you should stop now! We have had this sort of thing before, it only ends in a flame war. There is no place for it here, take it to some other Forum - if you want to discuss Lockon / FC / BS here on the Lockon Forums then do so.

If I was the boss of NATO, I'd take the chiefs of the Greek and Turkish Air Forces and knock their heads together until they remember THEY ARE ON THE SAME SIDE.

[TorwaK]

Torwak,either you can't understand certain things or you don't want to.

 

Before you start asking me questions,I think you'd better start answering mine first.I noticed that this kind of behaviour is typical of you.You did the same in other similar threads.But when there is 'argument' there is counter-argument.

 

Think for a moment what would happen if every Turk or Greek posted this kind of videos(not that I would allow myself to lower my standards and level to this point!).The rest of the members would never see the end of it!

 

If there is a Greek video I would like to see it too, there is no exception for me. The point is there is no video except single video which is uploaded to you tube many times with different name by different users. Believe me I'm looking for it too.

 

It is one thing for someone to post say,two 'dogfight' videos (one from each side) and it is another to post videos entitled 'Rulers of the Aegean' or 'Hunting over the Aegean' etc.Man,95+% of the Aegean is Greek,so who are the rulers and what in God's name are you...hunting over it?And since the Aegean sea is in its vast majority Greek how come you are its defenders and Greeks are the...bandits?Talk about science fiction stories!

 

Buddy if you check the history you can find that Grecee didn't win anything about Aegean sea. Aegean majority of islands are "gifted" to Greece by UK when Turkey had war with 6 countries at the same time which are UK, New Zeland, Austuralia, Italy, Greece, France. I don't tell these words, it's written in history books.

 

And in all these videos (as I have said in the past) you cannot tell which countries planes are participating.

 

On top of that,and despite your initial comments in this post,you go on with the usual propaganda and one-sided,non-objective story that rarely has any credibility whatsoever.

 

I think it's time you realized the mistakes you make when you post stuff like that and did something about it!

 

 

PS:I apologize to the rest of the forum but I just had to set the record straight.

 

The point is just I translated the conversations to English. Already its hard to find real dogfight videos so I feel myself lucky about to watch them. No need to talk about propaganda case becasue it doesn't representing my emotions. If I wasn't a Turkish and send it the video at forum that will be a propaganda again in your eyes because there is something which you don't want to see. Be fair and stop judging unnecessary.

[No Fear]

I guess we're gonna beat this one to the death,eh?

 

Torwak don't talk about history books.And don't say these things about the Greek islands.But then again you guys show the ancient Greek ruins in Asia Minor to tourists and try to pass them off as yours!

Need I say more about forging history,and the history books you are talking about?

 

It's not my fault that you only managed to find one video that shows the Greek perspective.What can I say?Try harder!

But don't expect me to point you to one for the reasons I have explained so many times.

 

 

Oh,and just so you know I am fair and objective (not that you would ever realize that or admit it) and I have said many times in the past that I accept that some dogfights are won by your pilots.You on the other hand have never accepted that your pilots lose some too.

[TorwaK]

Ok then buddy this conversation is over for me becasue unnecessary we make a noise here and disturb society. I know you're a good man and protecting your rights so I respect you.

[No Fear]

Ok then buddy this conversation is over for me becasue unnecessary we make a noise here and disturb society. I know you're a good man and protecting your rights so I respect you.

 

I agree.:)

 

And I respect you too.;)

[Alfa]

I guess we're gonna beat this one to the death,eh?

 

Nope we are not :lock: .

 

The two above posts should be the final words :) .