Su25T in BS and online compability

[Prophet]

I got it for $10.

[S77th-konkussion]

I got it for $10.

 

See? :D

[flankerbanker]

i think some you guys are missing the point

in a network game the computer doesn't compute the flight model for the other players There computer does compute it for there own A/C I.e player 1 flys with player 2

player 1 = FC FLYING SU25=player 1 aircraft performs with AFM thus AFM displayed aircraft on player 2 screen.

player 2 = BS FLYING either fighters/a10 but probably (why else would he buy BS alone) a KA 50/52 BLackshark = player 2 aircraft performs with AFM KA50/52 thus AFM Displayed KA50/52 on player 1s screen.

AFM su25/t would only affect AI aircraft in single player mode. it doesent matter if AFM code does not display in BS

do you honestly think code about aircraft physics is sent over the network it is only the A/cs speed,pos,hdg,Alt,pitch,bank that is sent.

[ZoomBoy27]

While ED would like getting some extra coin from those few who only want the Su-25T, I think that's a very marginal market. If ED offered one big expansion package of Su25T and Ka-50, that would be an awesome attraction to those who've never picked up any Lockon before.

That BS Ultra expansion pack would certainly bring interest from a North American publisher - maybe a big one.

 

My best guess:

We'll end up with diminishing 1.12b crowd

and the BS versions 1.2x for everyone else

 

I'll be moving onto BS and making plenty of missions for it.

[Weta43]

Ruggbutt Said:

It's irrelevant what's being send over the network. The fact is that it will take more dev resources to make things compatible for those that won't be installing all three discs (LOMAC/FC/BS).

Why should ED spend one second of time to make things easier for those people that aren't going to buy FC? Answer is: they shouldn't. That's what this discussion is about, not the particulars of what or how the data is sent over the net.

 

Actually - this is the thread starter by Vistrel:

 

Here's what I thought.

There will be two groups of people who will own Black Shark:

a) Those who bought Lockon + FC + BS

b) Those who bought Lockon + BS

Let's say the Black Shark will introduce 1.3 version of the game.

Now how will all those people be able to play in one multiplayer game when some players will have Su25T and others will not ?

The answer: in online multiplayer coalition screen the players without FC won't be able to select Su25T to fly but would still be able to see other players who own FC fly it .

This is similar to Battlefield 2 when players who own Special Forces addon use SF weapons in vanilla BF2 but people without SF addon cannot unlock them.

In other words, for the players without FC addon they will still have SU25T in game but they won't be able to operate it (cockpit, instruments, etc).

 

Which makes it quite on-topic. It's specifically about the fact that ED is already saying they intend LO/FC/BS to be backwards compatibale with LO/BS installs, and the problems that will arise if this isn't handled correctly.

 

If you don't have Flaming Cliffs, it will upgrade Lock On to 1.2 standard but it will not include the Su-25T and Flaming Cliffs missions and campaigns.

 

Which at least implies that the two upgrade paths will be compatible online. Simply saying we don't need to discuss this because ED shouldn't waste their time on it, when ED has publicaly said they are spending time on it is unlikely to solve any of those prospective problems.

 

Unless you know something that ED hasn't announced publically.

 

Again - at the least - ED needs to disable both the Su-25 variants for online use by LO/BS (non-LO/FC/BS) users (unless they intend to gift Su-25A AFM/system upgrades to the LOBS only users as part of the BS install, in which case it's all good)

[hitman]

Ok heres a serious question along them lines then: how is ED going to include the Su-25T and the Su-25 w/afm and keep it in an unlockable state when all one has to do is simply modify the meinit file? Making BS compatible with FC online looks like a no-go situation. The easiest answer to that would be NOT to include them. This includes ALL of the new weapon models that were included in 1.1 and 1.11. Theres too many variables involved and programming all that crap would be utterly pointless. How many lines of code would that take up? Why does it matter when more code in the engine is going to make the game run SLOWER.

 

Besides...if you want BS you might as well invest a few dollars to get the Su-25T anyways. Cheaper that way AND it doesnt impede BS in any way shape or form. Possibilities are that BS will be included in a platinum package of LO+FC+BS anyways sold on shelves.

[Weta43]

Why would they lock it away ? If they included the upgrades to the vanilla Su-25 it would be specifically to allow users to use it online without the unrealistic 'advantage' of SFM.

As I originally said & someone repeated after me - you don't need the AFM code to let LO>BS players see LO>FC>BS players fly the Su-25T online. The server tells them where the plane is, they see the old AI model flying around. The only reason to include AFM code would be to let LO>BS users fly the Su-25 alongside LO>FC>BS users online.

If they simply lock off both versions of the Su-25, people upgrading from LO directly to BS would - perhaps rightly - feel that they gained a helicopter, but lost the Su-25 they originally bought.

If (As ED said on their site) LO+BS truly = LO+FC+BS - Su-25T & campaign files, logically the Su-25 must have the upgrades that came with FC

Otherwise the line on ED's home site should read "it will upgrade Lock On to 1.2 standard but it will not include the Su-25T, Su-25 upgrades & AFM and Flaming Cliffs missions and campaigns."

I agree the easiest thing would be to remove these planes from LO>LOBS upgrades, but as I said - I can see a few paying customers screaming that they've had a plane removed from a game they paid good money for when they bought LO from UBI.

So - their choices seem to be -

1/ not include the Su-25 AFM but leave the plane on the offline & online flyable list (giving some an easier flight model)

2/ remove the Su-25 entirely (or from the online list, but this risks Meninit editing back in cheats), in which case all is fair, but LO>BS upgrades scream foul ( probably threaten lawyers )

3/ upgrade the vanilla Su-25 to FC standards. The FC patch was officially to add the Su-25T - we get to keep what we paid extra for, they don't get that plane but get to fly all the planes they paid for online with the LO>FC>BS upgraders, increasing the size of the community (there are bound to be fanatical people who want the helicopter but have no interest in the Su-25T & are too tight to spend the extra $ to get all 3 )

[Wags]

Guys,

 

Before you spend too much time talking about this, I'd suggest waiting for our update in July. A lot of things are changing; this includes what is currently on the the Black Shark web site about how the game will be sold.

[hitman]

Why would they lock it away ? If they included the upgrades to the vanilla Su-25 it would be specifically to allow users to use it online without the unrealistic 'advantage' of SFM.

As I originally said & someone repeated after me - you don't need the AFM code to let LO>BS players see LO>FC>BS players fly the Su-25T online. The server tells them where the plane is, they see the old AI model flying around. The only reason to include AFM code would be to let LO>BS users fly the Su-25 alongside LO>FC>BS users online.

If they simply lock off both versions of the Su-25, people upgrading from LO directly to BS would - perhaps rightly - feel that they gained a helicopter, but lost the Su-25 they originally bought.

If (As ED said on their site) LO+BS truly = LO+FC+BS - Su-25T & campaign files, logically the Su-25 must have the upgrades that came with FC

Otherwise the line on ED's home site should read "it will upgrade Lock On to 1.2 standard but it will not include the Su-25T, Su-25 upgrades & AFM and Flaming Cliffs missions and campaigns."

I agree the easiest thing would be to remove these planes from LO>LOBS upgrades, but as I said - I can see a few paying customers screaming that they've had a plane removed from a game they paid good money for when they bought LO from UBI.

So - their choices seem to be -

1/ not include the Su-25 AFM but leave the plane on the offline & online flyable list (giving some an easier flight model)

2/ remove the Su-25 entirely (or from the online list, but this risks Meninit editing back in cheats), in which case all is fair, but LO>BS upgrades scream foul ( probably threaten lawyers )

3/ upgrade the vanilla Su-25 to FC standards. The FC patch was officially to add the Su-25T - we get to keep what we paid extra for, they don't get that plane but get to fly all the planes they paid for online with the LO>FC>BS upgraders, increasing the size of the community (there are bound to be fanatical people who want the helicopter but have no interest in the Su-25T & are too tight to spend the extra $ to get all 3 )

Not talking specifically "online".

[Weta43]

Compatability only realy becomes an issue online though

[Weta43]

Wags wrote

Guys,

 

Before you spend too much time talking about this, I'd suggest waiting for our update in July. A lot of things are changing; this includes what is currently on the the Black Shark web site about how the game will be sold.

 

Looking forward to the update - Early or late July ? (or when it's done :-) This is the second or third time this has been mentioned - I'm surprised there hasn't been more buzz about it.

 

Have you arranged to sell the whole LO/FC/BS thing as a single install?

(I'm curious, but I won't hold my breath for an answer)

 

Hopefuly you won't be dropping the disk version.

 

There's a lot more posts in the bugs forum about that option than the original disks ....

[hitman]

Compatability only realy becomes an issue online though

How? This would include all models in offline campaigns and missions as useable, and if the Su-25 is upgraded in the 1.3 addon, the Su-25 from 1.02 gets upgraded as well. But well see when they release news in July.

[Weta43]

No - the AFM for the two versions are separate.

For the vanilla - for the same reason no-one cares what mods you run offline, but gets interested when you go online.

(By compatability I assume we mean flight models etc, not simple stability)

Anyway - we'll see in July (so something less than 7 weeks till we find out what Wags means...)

[tflash]

Guys,

 

Before you spend too much time talking about this, I'd suggest waiting for our update in July. A lot of things are changing; this includes what is currently on the the Black Shark web site about how the game will be sold.

 

Wow, maybe it will come bundled with music from Rammstein! Mein Herz :D