TM Cougar & CH magnetoresistive/ hall sensor kits

[The_Nephilim]

Hey Rel4y,

 

I emailed you about purchasing the sensors for a Cougar X,Y Axis..

[MAXsenna]

While we wait for this. What do I need get my TQS ready? And do you have it in stock? In a previous correspondence with sirrah at the end of June, it seems to me I should get the same. Would you prefer I send you an email?

As for the CH sensors. I have an really old simple 2 button joystick. CH Mach 2 or something. I have an idea to put it in a button box to use it in the Gazelle. Would that be doable?

An old pair of TM RCS too. You mentioned something about those and TM F-22/TQS IIRC.

Cheers!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[rel4y]

Feel free to contact me via PM.

 

PM sent!

 

While we wait for this. What do I need get my TQS ready? And do you have it in stock? In a previous correspondence with sirrah at the end of June, it seems to me I should get the same. Would you prefer I send you an email?

As for the CH sensors. I have an really old simple 2 button joystick. CH Mach 2 or something. I have an idea to put it in a button box to use it in the Gazelle. Would that be doable?

An old pair of TM RCS too. You mentioned something about those and TM F-22/TQS IIRC.

 

Totally forgot to post updates about the F-22 and TQS. I have sensors for them tested and ready. I will attach a few pictures where you can see the the sensors with their nicely tapped threads that let you screw them in place. That this works well was also an important milestone for the Cougar ANT/RNG pots. :thumbup:

 

The CH upgrade mainboards can connect to the TM shift registers and have 12 Bit axis resolution, so they would work. They are not a native fit sizewise, but thats nothing a drop of hot glue couldnt solve! :P

 

(sorry about the sideways pictures)

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by rel4y

[MAXsenna]

Cool. We'll, I have to pull my F22/TQS from storage then. Was thinking about putting it on a SW FFB2 actually, because it's lighter.

Okay, for my TCS, one of your sensors connected to an Arduino board or something should work?

The ANT/RNG sensors sounds really promising.

This is the CH stick. Your Sensors pluss some board and put in a box with more switches and buttons was my plan.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[rel4y]

Good news! I can finally ship to Brazil and starting Sept. 15th also to the US again! So for anybody interested I am taking US orders again!

Only drawback currently all packets will be sent by cargo ship and not via air freight, so the travel time increases to around 3 weeks.

 

 

 

Cool. We'll, I have to pull my F22/TQS from storage then. Was thinking about putting it on a SW FFB2 actually, because it's lighter.

Okay, for my TCS, one of your sensors connected to an Arduino board or something should work?

The ANT/RNG sensors sounds really promising.

This is the CH stick. Your Sensors pluss some board and put in a box with more switches and buttons was my plan.

 

That stick looks pretty oldschool! Do you mean the Airbus TCS? If one of my sensor types looks like the pots inside, then it should work fine (together with an Arduino). From what I have seen TM always uses the same type of pots in their devices over the years. I have also made a replacement pot for the TM 16000M Z axis, that I havent shown yet. The FCC just eats up my time! :joystick:

Edited September 11, 2020 by rel4y

[MAXsenna]

Snip...

 

That stick looks pretty oldschool! Do you mean the Airbus TCS? If one of my sensor types looks like the pots inside, then it should work fine. From what I have seen TM always uses the same type of pots in their devices over the years. I have also made a replacement pot for the TM 16000M Z axis, that I havent shown yet. The FCC just eats up my time! :joystick:

 

Yeah. That stick is old school. Bought in 93! But fantastic quality. CH! It has "hardware" trimming on both axis. And option for non-centering on both axis independently. Used it in DI Tornado for rudders and throttle with the original TM stick before TM released their first throttle. Unfortunately I think I threw those away.

I meant TQS. Sometimes I don't notice that my phone's guessictionary messes up.

I'll send you a PM about your sensors. CH and TM used the "same" pots in the 90s. My F22 has CH pots in it now. Ordered 10 directly from CH early 2000 to "be sure". But it would be fun to rebuild them all to your sensors. Most interested to rebuild the CH stick for use in the Gazelle, and have my TM rudders non-centering with damper for use in helos. No toe brakes, not needed.

I feel you about shipping. Have a package that were picked up in the store in US a couple of hours after order. Stayed at UPS one week, and now is "shipping" in the right word over here to Europe!

 

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Mearcat]

Hi rel4y,

 

Question about these sensors: can these act as a replacement for a 10K potentiometer other than the TM kit?

 

I have a rather unique idea for applying them to another piece of my rig that desperately needs contactless sensors. I do a lot of sim racing and I purchased a set of supposedly good quality pedals but the pots that are on the clutch and throttle constantly fail (begin spiking) and I have attempted to replace them with a drop in Hall sensor but to no avail. The pedals also double as rudder pedals through axis combining.

 

The pots on these pedals are near identical to the TM Cougar Anttena pot.

 

I know that each pot has a 3.54V feed, a 12bit resolution (if thats helpful), fixed rotation of 340 degrees with physical stop and the standard wiring layout. The pedals only use 1/4 turn of the sensor.

 

 

The problem is finding a replacement that can fit in the restricted space where the sensors are mounted.

There is some hardware that would be needed but I have already created the 3D designs for these and they could be easily adapted to accommodate your sensors, especially the latest one that has a threaded collar.

 

Let me know as this could become a life saver for ppl that have these pedals (they are a very well named brand of Sim Racing kit) and are sick of spending 10 Euro per sensor every few months (I do a LOT of racing/flying).

Edited September 13, 2020 by Mearcat

[rel4y]

I know that each pot has a 3.54V feed, a 12bit resolution (if thats helpful), fixed rotation of 340 degrees with physical stop and the standard wiring layout. The pedals only use 1/4 turn of the sensor.

 

The current sensor electronics are optimized for one specific angle and to provide maximum resolution at that angle. While it is possible to use them for smaller angles, they cant be used for any larger ones. The maximum angle the current type supports is 180 degrees, so I am afraid 240° is out of its possibilities. That is only possible with programmable sensor ICs, such as Melexis. Problem is their programmer and additionally necessary expansion boards cost several grand.

Edited September 15, 2020 by rel4y

[Mearcat]

The current sensor electronics are optimized for one specific angle and to provide maximum resolution at that angle. While it is possible to use them for smaller angles, they cant be used for any larger ones. The maximum angle the current type supports is 180 degrees, so I am afraid 240° is out of its possibilities. That is only possible with programmable sensor ICs, such as Melexis. Problem is their programmer and additionally necessary expansion boards cost several grand.

 

Ah ok, the current pots have a 12bit resolution over 240-270 degrees and your saying that your MR sensors have a tighter resolution being 12 bit over 180 degrees?

 

The current pot travel is less than 90 degrees (0-70ish degrees) for the pedal drivers 0-100% on each pedal.

But the driver software also allows for manual calibration of any position on the sensor (aka from 50-120 degrees). This is how I have in the past increased the longevity of the pots by moving the contacts past the worn part of the carbon tracks. But they wear out just as quick.

 

So hopefully, your contactless ones may work unless I am missing something.

[rel4y]

Mearcat said:

Ah ok, the current pots have a 12bit resolution over 240-270 degrees and your saying that your MR sensors have a tighter resolution being 12 bit over 180 degrees?

 

The current pot travel is less than 90 degrees (0-70ish degrees) for the pedal drivers 0-100% on each pedal.

But the driver software also allows for manual calibration of any position on the sensor (aka from 50-120 degrees). This is how I have in the past increased the longevity of the pots by moving the contacts past the worn part of the carbon tracks. But they wear out just as quick.

 

So hopefully, your contactless ones may work unless I am missing something.

 

 

Yeeees, kind of. Let me explain.

 

The maximum supported electronic angle of my sensors is ~180°. Depending on the devices I can "hardcode" the angle via a couple of resistors on the PCB, therefore optimizing their max angle which corresponds to a voltage output between 0-5V. (In reality its a bit less, because the opamp doesnt operate rail to rail.) The resolution of analog devices like pots, hall sensors and (my) AMR sensors is theoretically infinite.

 

Only the ADC (analog to digital converter) converts an analog voltage (range) into a digital signal which has a certain length of Bits. Obviously the more Bits you have, the smaller you can make the increments. So if your ADC reference voltage is set to GND aka 0V and supply voltage is 5V, the 12 Bits (4096 points) are evenly spaced out over these 5V. So your theoretical resolution is 1,22mV.

 

Your pot is wired as a voltage divider, which means it varies the voltage output according to its angle. If your pot has an electrical range of lets say 120° but you are only physically using 70°, you will use only ~60% of the full voltage range which also means you are only using a range of 3V, or roughly 60% of the full 5V. That would mean your actual hardware resolution is ~2400 points or around 11,25 Bits. However, the Software will allow you to calibrate the axis and via interpolation will pretend full resolution.

 

My sensors are designed to have the maximum output range at a certain angle and therefore as close to the full hardware (ADC) resolution as possible.

 

TLDR: My sensors will work for your pedals, but I need an exact maximum angle to "hardcode" them to. Also check if they physically fit, as there needs to be space for the blue trim pot on the side.

Edited December 19, 2020 by rel4y

[Mearcat]

Sorry for slow response but needed to pull the drawings out of mothball.

 

Top view of sensor opening. Red lines are the main pedal frame, white is the sensor mount and grey is the existing pot. Included are a few dimensions of the opening. There is 16x24x25mm (WxLxD from top view) of space for the sensor to be mounted in.

 

Front view:

 

3D fit of components:

 

I think that the max angle should be set to 180 degrees, that would give the best chance to get these working with the pedals driver.

All I'd need is the threaded collar diameter and the axle shaft diameter of your sensor housing, to match up the mount and drive gear.

[Sokol1_br]

Ah ok, the current pots have a 12bit resolution over 240-270 degrees and your saying that your MR sensors have a tighter resolution being 12 bit over 180 degrees?

 

Resolution is not defined by potmter, but by the ACD of USB circuit, that expect a voltage variation of 0 to 3.54 volts (in the case of your pedal controller, being 5v typical in most controllers) in the angular movement of your pedal.

 

An (CTS HP-100) "CH" potmter can be turned by ~270º, but the electric variation is read only in ~30º, due special design of resistive track.

 

In some - rare, datasheet this is called "effective electric angle".

 

So a sensor calibrated for read 0 to 5v (typical) in 30º is a perfect replacement.

 

You can check in what angular range your potmter really read with a multimeter.

 

Bi-Tech 6127 series of Hall sensor has models with 30, 60, 90 ... 300º of effective electric angle.

 

AS5600 sensor can have the "effective electric angle" programmed (once), without use expensive hardware like need for Melexis MLX90333.

 

Unless the pot are geared (what means complications with play, blackslash...) they are not used in 270º, an car pedal don't turn all this.

 

So first thing you need know is what is the real angle of movement of your pedals, for search for a sensor replacement. But the 3,54v used will limit the options, as most sensors use 5v range.

[rel4y]

Big update incoming! :music_whistling:

 

Huge thanks go out to Gruman for providing me with all the needed Warthog measurements and he was even kind enough to send me his Warthog plate over from Switzerland. :thumbup: So thanks to Gruman I was able to finish the Warthog adapter plate. Now all the hardware is pretty much set and I only need to do one more testprint to make sure everything works as expected. The first production version of electronics is pretty much ready and I will order everything in the next days.

 

Do you prefer Measurements or the whole warthog base? I can do both.

But I'm from Switzerland. Postage and customs will be a bit more complex because of Non-EU. ;)

Feel free to contact me via PM.

 

I also just realized that the Cougar and F-22 Pro base have the same mounting holes. Therefore the Cougar version will also fit the F-22 base. Cool! Left side is Warthog, right side is Cougar with part of the base displayed (black).

 

 

Next, I designed another version of the 13 deg tailpiece which looks a bit awkward but has less of a forward lean and therefore the grips center of gravity will also be less front heavy. And its closer to the original F-16 specs. I actually have another idea how to get exact specs, but I am not sure if that would make it too complex. You know, the old keep it simple stupid...

 

 

 

Finally, Id like to present a replacement Ministick for the Cougar Throttle. I have had tons of requests for this one over the past and now I finally got around to it. This mod sadly got delayed for several months because of covid, but its finally ready. The thumbhat is modeled after an original F-16 slew and it just needs to be dyed grey with some good quality Nylon dye. Dont worry, that is the same way Shapeways dyes their stuff black or whatever color. As always, the mod is totally plug and play. Price is gonna be 22€.

 

Soon, I will present you the ANT and RNG pots as well. I am making good progress on those.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by rel4y

[sirrah]

Great to see you progress on the Cougar force sensing base rel4y :thumbup:

 

Can we consider this 2020 Christmas present material?

Or are we rather talking 2021+?

 

Just so you know, my wallet is ready! :D

[rel4y]

Great to see you progress on the Cougar force sensing base rel4y :thumbup:

 

Can we consider this 2020 Christmas present material?

Or are we rather talking 2021+?

 

Just so you know, my wallet is ready! :D

 

Thank you! Yes, I am targeting Christmas but it is gonna be a close call! In case we go into another lockdown the chances are pretty much zero however.

[MAXsenna]

Thank you! Yes, I am targeting Christmas but it is gonna be a close call! In case we go into another lockdown the chances are pretty much zero however.

Take your time my friend! It is what it is!

My package arrived in Norway today. (Same city). Hopefully I get it tomorrow.

Looking forward to both ANT and RNG upgrades, and probably I should get those shift registers.

Keep up your excellent work!

Cheers!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Magic Man]

HI, is the throttle board/sensor still available? Emailed a couple of days ago but haven't heard yet.

Many thanks.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Magic Man

[sirrah]

@rel4y , any updates on your Cougar force sensor mod?

 

Not trying to push here. Just being enthusiastic and curious :)

[rel4y]

@rel4y , any updates on your Cougar force sensor mod?

 

Not trying to push here. Just being enthusiastic and curious :)

 

Sorry, not much new info on this front. PCBs are in production and I am waiting for them to be shipped. Mechanical parts are production ready and will go live once the electronics are ready. A huge problem currently is acquiring the female 5 pin Mini DIN connectors that TM uses on the Cougar and Warthog. I am running out of ideas where to find these... :(

 

Cougar/ F-22 ANT and RNG pots are coming along well, no pictures though. Yet. :)

 

Concerning the Cougar Slew/ Ministick I ran into some problems with the Nylon dye, it colored the white SLS parts in a blueish hue instead of grey. Therefore I had to order a different dye which hopefully works much better. The serial slew hats have a bit of a radius on top which looks better. I will attach some pictures of the installed Ministick though as it is a joy to use already. :)

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by rel4y

[GreatWhiteHype]

Hi Rel4y! Glad to see you are still going strong and helping the SIM community. I am very happy to see the TM Microstick in production! I would like clarification on the price. It is listed on post #371 for 22 euro, but a later post #377 says 42 euro? Am I looking at this wrong? Keep up the great work!

[rel4y]

Hi Rel4y! Glad to see you are still going strong and helping the SIM community. I am very happy to see the TM Microstick in production! I would like clarification on the price. It is listed on post #371 for 22 euro, but a later post #377 says 42 euro? Am I looking at this wrong? Keep up the great work!

 

Thanks! The Cougar Slew is not listed yet, but it is 22€. The Cougar stick sensors are 42€. These are the ones replacing the pots in the stick base.

[Rudel_chw]

Thanks! The Cougar Slew is not listed yet, but it is 22€.

 

Hi rel4y:

 

I'd love to order one, but will wait for your Antenna and Range pots to be ready, so I can order all three on a single purchase. Hopefully by that date the german Mail will have reinstated service to my country :D

Best regards,

 

Eduardo

 

 

[The_Nephilim]

Hey I just wanted to give a thumbs up for Rel4y and his sensors for the cougar.. I ordered them and he said it would take a while to get them but after a month and a half I finally got them today and they where worth the wait.. even swap out, I did have to invert one axis in DCS but they work perfectly and had same range as the pots in the calib screen.. I went into DCS and flew instant action seemed to woerk just fine..

 

After I calibrated them and went into DCS they are working great.. I just hope they last for some number of years.. well worth the mobney and wait Please be patient if in the USA they take a long time to get here but they got here..

 

thank you

Nephilim'

[bones1014]

Does the upgraded CH main board increase resolution?

 

Sent from my ASUS_I01WDX using Tapatalk

 

 

[rel4y]

Rudel_chw said:

I'd love to order one, but will wait for your Antenna and Range pots to be ready, so I can order all three on a single purchase. Hopefully by that date the german Mail will have reinstated service to my country

Best regards,

Eduardo

 

Hey Eduardo,

Sorry to say, but your country is sadly still off limits for me. Postal service indicates it may be possible to ship again in December. But who knows..

 

bones1014 said:

Does the upgraded CH main board increase resolution?

 

Hello,

Yes it does. The original CH mainboard has a 8 Bit (256 points or 0.234°/point) resolution and the new mainboard has a 12 Bit resolution (4096 points or 0.0146°/point). So theoretically thats about a 16x increase in resolution. Realistically its abit less on both as these ADCs dont operate rail to rail.

Edited December 20, 2020 by rel4y