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Earlier version of Hornet...?


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With the Tomcat nearing release and the announcement of the Intruder, I have been dreaming of all of the possibilities with a Hornet, Tomcat, and Intruder flight deck. However, our version of the Hornet is from the mid-2,000's. With realism in mind, I would like to closely replicate the weapons and systems each would have used when operating together. Is it even possible to make our current Hornet's capabilities more inline with how it would have operated when it did fly along with both the Tomcat and Intruder in let's say the early to mid 90's?

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Well technically all those weapons were being used starting 97 and even earlier than that. So using a 9X, or any 1760 capable weapon or even an A120 that needed a newer version launcher is still within realism.

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The AIM-120 along with the AN/APG-73 was introduced with Lot 16 in 1993, so no need for ditching the AMRAAM(at least not the -B) for an early to mid 90's scenario.

 

In fact the DCS version is essentially a 90's Hornet(Lot 20 from 1998 ) - no legacy Hornets were produced after the 90's. The features of the DCS Hornet, that would be most incompatible with a mid 90's scenario, are post production upgrades such as the AMPCD, JHMCS, ATFLIR and armament such as later versions of the AIM-120, AIM-9X etc.

 

For the armament it would be a simple case of not using the newest(since the older stuff is available and the DCS Hornet version is compatible with it). The biggest issue in this regard would probably be with the ATFLIR, since the earlier Nitehawk pod isn't available. The cockpit layout is not that different to that of a 1990 Lot 12(first Night Attack version) and virtually identical to that of a 1996 Lot 18 - except for post production upgrades; AMPCD and JHMCS controls, so if you can blank those out of your attention(and not use the JHMCS) a mid 90's scenario is quite doable in a fairly realistic way.

 

An 80's scenario would be an entirely different matter though :)

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There are plenty of CAWs in mid 90´s where F-14B, F-18C and A-6E where deployed at the same time in the same Carrier.

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Thanks for the replies. It sounds like for the most part, we can make our Hornet fit into earlier time periods except for the JHMCS. The cockpit and pilot helmet are currently modeled for it...which is a shame because it’s not even functioning yet. A lot more flexibility seems possible if we had a Hornet option without the JHMCS.

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Link 16. Is also something an early or mid 90s hornet wouldnt have .

 

As well as considering the cm system ale67 is essentially newer and fully integrated into the digital system , allowing access of cm programs via ddi directly in the ew page as compared to the ale47 which had a full analog panel for managing its cm programs, a feature of earlier lot horents. And thus not fitting for early to mid 90s scenario.


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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Link 16. Is also something an early or mid 90s hornet wouldnt have

 

Not sure about that - AFAIK Link-16(earlier also known as TADIL-J)was introduced to tactical fighters exactly in the early to mid 90'ies. I don't know how that relates to the Hornet though. But then the datalink subject is truly confusing with a myriad of acronyms for different exchange protocols and there is apparently also differences between US and NATO terminology as to what "Link 16" constitutes.

 

As well as considering the cm system ale67 is essentially newer and fully integrated into the digital system , allowing access of cm programs via ddi directly in the ew page as compared to the ale47 which had a full analog panel for managing its cm programs, a feature of earlier lot horents. And thus not fitting for early to mid 90s scenario.

 

Really don't know what you are on about here.

 

The F-18 was "born" with the ALE-39(the one with the "analogue panel"). From Lot 18 and up, it was replaced by the ALE-47, which is the new integrated CM system.

 

Lot 18 was introduced in FY96 - which starts 1 October 1995.


Edited by Alfa

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...if we had a Hornet option without the JHMCS.

 

+1 :thumbup:

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Not sure about that - AFAIK Link-16(earlier also known as TADIL-J)was introduced to tactical fighters exactly in the early to mid 90'ies. I don't know how that relates to the Hornet though. But then the datalink subject is truly confusing with a myriad of acronyms for different exchange protocols and there is apparently also differences between US and NATO terminology as to what "Link 16" constitutes.

 

 

 

Really don't know what you are on about here.

 

The F-18 was "born" with the ALE-39(the one with the "analogue panel"). From Lot 18 and up, it was replaced by the ALE-47, which is the new integrated CM system.

 

Lot 18 was introduced in FY96 - which starts 1 October 1995.

 

 

 

i really dont know what you are on about as it takes time for new airplanes to circulate to new units before they are actuallty put into service, let alone deploy overseas on a combat mission.

 

production date /=/ service date.

 

I dont know why you bring up lot 18 when we have a Lot 20 production hornet with post production 2000s upgrades. Simply put there are features you cant get rid of that wouldn't be available in a 90s Hornet. So you can only ever imagine to have a 90s Hornet experience.

 

 

Also Link 16 isn't really fully integrated into tactical fighters and proper Operational capacity until about the early 2000s.

 

the Early to mid 90s period they are still predominatly on COmmand and Control and/or AWACS aircraft.

 

http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/DataLinkProcessingAndManagement/Documents/Understanding_Voice+Data_Link_Networking.pdf

 

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Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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Would also like an option to toggle the helmet sight as because when we get F14, and Intruder, I really want to do a Gulf War 1 proxy with 1991 period weapons. On the blue side, player controlled F18, 15, 14, Huey, Gazelle, Mirage 2000, Harrier and A10 are all period accurate. Less hardware on the red side but you still have 21, 29 and MI 8.

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Would also like an option to toggle the helmet sight as because when we get F14, and Intruder, I really want to do a Gulf War 1 proxy with 1991 period weapons. On the blue side, player controlled F18, 15, 14, Huey, Gazelle, Mirage 2000, Harrier and A10 are all period accurate. Less hardware on the red side but you still have 21, 29 and MI 8.

 

 

Harrier isnt really era appropriate either, as that is also a 2000s variant with AMPCD displays and Litening 2 Pod.

 

A10 fits gulf war but only if looking at FC3 A10A, its the closest. but if you examine 3d cockpit model that already is an A10A+ with EGI.

 

 

 

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For the Harrier, would have to treat the LITENING pod like era inappropriate weapons and just not load it. Nothing you can do about the cockpit screens sadly. Can’t have every aircraft, every era :( lol


Edited by Jockcop
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i really dont know what you are on about as it takes time for new airplanes to circulate to new units before they are actuallty put into service, let alone deploy overseas on a combat mission.

 

production date /=/ service date.

 

In regards to Link-16;

 

I didn't say that current incarnation of the system was available on Hornets in the 90'ies - merely that some form of it was around then and although, as you said, predominately installed on command & control assets, it was tested on tactical fighters - but again I don't know if that involved Hornets.

 

I dont know why you bring up lot 18 when we have a Lot 20 production hornet with post production 2000s upgrades.

 

I brought it up because the ALE-47 system(the one on the DCS Hornet) isn't a post-production upgrade like the AMPCD or JHMCS - it was implemented with Lot 18 in 1995 and thus permissable for a "mid 90'ies" scenario.

 

Simply put there are features you cant get rid of that wouldn't be available in a 90s Hornet. So you can only ever imagine to have a 90s Hornet experience.

 

No one contested that - it was a question of how much of the armament/built-in features not to use/pretend aren't there.

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Just an idea, one that's probably not feasible - it'd be nice if DCS utilized databases the same way the old Harpoon games and its most recent iteration, Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations does. Basically, you load a database and only certain platforms and specific variants available during that time period are available for use in a scenario.

 

 

It's likely too much to ask to actually develop earlier variants of the F/A-18, but maybe there's a way to "disable" certain features to simulate what was actually available during a certain timeframe?

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The russian fc3 pilot has a advantage with the shchel-3um hms.

 

Yes but the subject of the OP was about the possibility of using the DCS Hornet in a realistic way for an early- to mid 90'ies scenario.

 

The F-18, MiG-29 and Su-27 were all introduced to service around 1984 - the Russian jets had HMS from day one, while the Hornet only got JHMCS as a backfit around 2005.

JJ

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