DCS: de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB Mk VI Discussion

[zcrazyx]

Does DH.98 have a chance to come out this year?

 

I'm really hoping for christmas time, wanna fly drunk on new years eve doing some dumb stuff in the twin xD

[Snapage]

Anyone know what kind of bomb loadouts the DH.98 Mosquito FB Mk VI could carry?

[Krupi]

Bomb Bay:

250lb or 500lb x 2

 

Wing

250lb or 500lb x 2

50 or 100 Gal Drop Tank x 2

RP-3 Rocket x 4/x8

RP-3 Rocket x 4/x8 (DOUBLE STACK) + 50 or 100 Gal Drop Tank x 2

 

They also carried Depth Charges and Mines however I don't know how much of either....

 

Also there is a chance it could carry up to 12-16 RP-3 Rockets in a stacked layout however I can't confirm this at the moment.

 

 

The above image you can clearly see the double stack, I imagine they dropped the fuel tanks. This begs the question of if a total of 16 RP-3 could be carried without drop tanks?

 

 

[Bozon]

Bomb Bay:

250lb or 500lb x 2

 

Wing

250lb or 500lb x 2

50 or 100 Gal Drop Tank x 2

RP-3 Rocket x 4/x8

RP-3 Rocket x 4/x8 (DOUBLE STACK) + 50 or 100 Gal Drop Tank x 2

 

They also carried Depth Charges and Mines however I don't know how much of either....

 

Also there is a chance it could carry up to 12-16 RP-3 Rockets in a stacked layout however I can't confirm this at the moment.

 

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The above image you can clearly see the double stack, I imagine they dropped the fuel tanks. This begs the question of if a total of 16 RP-3 could be carried without drop tanks?

 

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According to Sharp & Bowyer Book, mines were tested on the FB.VI, but were not adopted. Depth charges were operational only for a short time with little results against uboats, and then abandoned.

 

The RP-3 rockets come in 2 flavors: 25 lbs. with a solid armor piercing head that were used by coastal command against ships (those seen in the picture above posted by krupi), and 60 lbs with a bulbous explosive head that was used against ground targets (same type as were used by Typhoons).

 

[Snapage]

Man, I didn't know the 20mm cannons took up space in the bomb bay. I kind of wish we were getting the bomber variant now. :(

[Krupi]

Really if you want the bomber variant we would need a map from England to Berlin :smilewink:​​​​​​

 

And a spare ~4 to 5 hours to drop off the 4000lb bomb and get home, using the GEE to get your bearing as it is 4 o'clock in the morning.

 

The FB.VI is the right choice, as long as it is late version with Merlin 25...

[Snapage]

I just want to be able to carry more bombs. 4 bombs is only one more then the P47D. The P47D can carry two 500lb bombs + one 250lb bomb + 10 rockets.

 

Can the mosquito carry much more then that?

[Bozon]

The FB.VI is the right choice, as long as it is late version with Merlin 25...

Just so people don’t get the wrong impression - the Merlin 25 ones are not really a “late model”. Merlin 23 FB.VI production run was very short - only the first couple hundred. The other 4000 had Merlin 25. It is not unlikely that the first FB.VI’s with the Merlin 23 were later converted to 25 in the field.

 

I just want to be able to carry more bombs. 4 bombs is only one more then the P47D. The P47D can carry two 500lb bombs + one 250lb bomb + 10 rockets.

 

Can the mosquito carry much more then that?

The FB.VI can’t carry more than that, but it can carry it much farther and at a higher cruise speed, and if needed (IRL) - at low altitude at night. P47s rarely if ever took off with the max theoretical munition load - they’d barely get off the ground. Also dont forget that nose mounted quad Hispanos are much more powerful brrrrrt than 8 wing mounted convergence-impaired 0.5s. The 4 nose 0.303 mgs are just a cherry on top.

 

[Beirut]

I want the 4000lb bomb and I want the big azz sub sinkin' cannon underneath.

 

Make it please and take my money! :)

[bart]

One of the best Mosquito documentaries I've ever seen :-

 

 

Lot's of great interviews with designers and aircrews, not to mention great footage.

 

Lot's of comments on there saying it was the fastest aircraft to fly in WW2. So I guess with our up and coming Mosquito it's going to be it's speed advantage that will keep us alive on a WW2 multiplayer server, the same as the Spitfire's turning circle can keep you alive when flying!?

[razo+r]

Fastest aircraft to fly in WW2? I don't think so. Especially not against almost everything late war related.

 

I also doubt the advantage will be big compared to the K4 and D9

 

 

[bart]

Fastest aircraft to fly in WW2? I don't think so. Especially not against almost everything late war related.

 

I also doubt the advantage will be big compared to the K4 and D9

 

 

I think they are referring to the allied side only. Also when to Mosquito first went into service, they said it was the fastest aircraft we (as in allied) had at that time. The USAF were using them with Mustang fighter support, but they had to change tactic, as the Mustang couldn't keep up with the Mosquito!

[DD_Fenrir]

Fastest aircraft to fly in WW2? I don't think so. Especially not against almost everything late war related.

 

I also doubt the advantage will be big compared to the K4 and D9

 

 

Depends entirely on the variant referenced, when, and in comparison what to.

 

The B Mk.IV in 1942 could certainly outrun the Fw 190A3 and Bf 109F4/G2 - numerous accounts, from both sides, support this.

 

The B Mk.IX in 1943 at 20,000ft could just was as quick as a Spitfire LF.IX; this puts it marginally slower than a Fw 190A-5 and the Bf 109G-6. However it was a night bomber, so it did not have to face them. It's opponents in the most part were radar festooned Bf110s and Ju-88s which it could.

 

Similarly the B Mk.XVI.

 

Now for the FB Mk.VI we are slated to get:

 

Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment

Boscombe Down

1 February 1944

Mosquito FB. Mk. VI. HX.809

(2 Merlin 25's)

Level speed performance at normal & increased boost rating

 

SUMMARY

 

Level speed performance at +18 lb/sq.in. boost and +25 lb/sq.in. boost has been completed on Mosquito FB.Mk.VI, HX.809. The principal results are as follows:-

 

MS Gear

 

Max. speed at +18 lb/sq.in boost = 353 at 5100 ft

 

Max. speed at max. full throttle boost (23.9 lb/sq.in.) = 354 mph at sea level.

 

Use of +23.9 lb/sq.in. boost instead of +18 lb/sq.in. at sea level increases the speed by 22 mph.

 

FS Gear

 

Max. speed at +18 lb/sq.in boost= 363 at 12500 ft.

 

Max. speed at +25 lb/sq.in. = 369 mph at 7200 ft.

 

Use of 25 lb/sq.in. boost instead of +18 lb/sq.in. increases the speed below full throttle height by 23 mph. Comparison of results @ +18 lb/sq.in. boost with those of Mosquito VI HJ.679, indicate that the speed of that aircraft is of the order of 10-15 mph below average, thus supporting the conclusion made in the 7th part of report No. A. & A.E.E./767,e, that HJ.679 was not fully representative of the type.

 

In 1944 when the test was made it's opponents were the Fw 190A-6/7 and the Bf 109G-6.

 

From the charts I've read, without MW-50 at 5100ft a Bf 109G-6 can manage ~326mph.

 

An Fw 190A-8 is showing in various configurations between 348mph & 364mph

 

A Bf 109K-4 with MW-50 at 5,100ft from the charts looks to be ~392mph.

 

This is not surprising. Speed advantages leap frogged across aircraft variants throughout the war. And don't forget that fighter-bomber Mosquito pilots were not looking for a fight; they flew low and fast to avoid detection and mitigate interception. You may well as a Jagdwaffe pilot in his Bf 109K-4 spotted a Mosquito but if it's already clipping along at a fair old lick you have to work out firstly if it's seen you and if he has whether you have the height, airspeed, and critically the fuel or MW-50 to run him down before you have to break off and go home; it's assumed you have burnt a good portion of your fuel getting to the spot where you have seen the Mossie, and if you can't catch him in 10 minutes (your MW-50 allowance), you won't likely catch him at all.

 

Given that K-4s were not the numerically significant variant, what about all your other friends who are bashing about in late model Gs...?

 

So yeah, "fastest aircraft of WW2" is media sensationalism at it's worst, but then that is hardly surprising. "Usefully fast against the majority of it's opponents" is more accurate.

 

[razo+r]

In real life most likely, but not in DCS (refer to the quote below). Majority of the opponents will be K4 and D9, so... Not a lot of speed advantage for the Mosquito in that environment, where you have plenty of fuel, MW-50, short trips to the airfields etc...

 

So I guess with our up and coming Mosquito it's going to be it's speed advantage that will keep us alive on a WW2 multiplayer server, the same as the Spitfire's turning circle can keep you alive when flying!?

 

[Bozon]

In real life most likely, but not in DCS (refer to the quote below). Majority of the opponents will be K4 and D9, so... Not a lot of speed advantage for the Mosquito in that environment, where you have plenty of fuel, MW-50, short trips to the airfields etc...

FB.VI entered service in May 1943. In DCS it will face 109K & 190D9 that are 1945 top of the line LW fighters. By 1945, mosquitoes enjoyed the allied air superiority, so out running LW fighters was not that big of an issue. Those mosquitoes that still needed the performance edge (PR mossies and FB.VI on day ranger mission) were using 150 octane fuel and could run their Merlins at +25 boost with a great increase of speed. I suppose that we will get FB.VI limited to +18 boost.

 

 

 

[Bozon]

...

So yeah, "fastest aircraft of WW2" is media sensationalism at it's worst, but then that is hardly surprising. "Usefully fast against the majority of it's opponents" is more accurate.

The Mosquito was the fasted aircraft in operations when it was introduced. The PR. mossies were the fastest in terms of max speed (they were first to enter operations in Sep. 41) and remained the fastest for quite a while with the newer PR. models.

 

Indeed eventually the absolute "top speed" crown has been taken from them, so the Mossie was not the "fastest aircraft of WWII" in that sense. However, absolute top speed could only be maintained by fighters for a short while before having heat issues, running out of water (if they used that), or running out of fuel. The mosquito (especially PR.) remained the fastest cruise-speed aircraft - so it was no longer the fastest in a sprint, but it was still the fastest in a marathon. PR. mosquitoes completed flights of over 2000 miles at an average speed exceeding 300 mph. The official "cruise" speed of the later PR. models was 350 mph at 30 kft.

 

The FB.VI was never claimed to be the fastest. It probably was faster on the deck than anything the LW had in mid 1943, but on the allied side the Typhoon was a little faster back then. During 1944 it was "felt" by crews that they had trouble out running the latest 190As and 109Gs. They were then authorized to use 150 octane fuel and then allowed them to continue day intruder/ranger operations.

 

Here's a nice story of PR. Mossie escorted by P51s and the issues they had with the cruise speeds difference (also encounter with jets):

http://www.mossie.org/stories/Norman_Malayney_2.htm

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Adding to the above, a few more thoughts on the 109 K4:

- 1500 made, accounting for around 5% of all 109s

- Released in Aug 44', but it's worth remembering that MW50 wasn't available until Nov 44

- 1500 might well have been built but the Luftwaffe was desperately short on not only fuel, but also pilots. In short, the Luftwaffe training couldn't keep up with anything like the demand

- Clearly, the Luftwaffe was fighting not just the USAAF and RAF, but also the Russians, further spreading aircraft availability

- By the time the K4 was released, the Luftwaffe was already massively outnumbered. Chances are that any encounter is not going to be a 1 v 1, it'll be 1 vs probably quite a lot, complete with someone leftover to shoot you up whilst trying to land

- If you're in a German fighter, chances are that you're going to be trying to chase something that's fairly easy to catch (a B17) and NOT an aircraft that you can barely catch.

 

So whilst the K4 was very fast, the reality is that chances are it rarely fought in the simplistic kind of "fair" battles that exist in DCS.

 

Ref the Mossie, there's a very good reason why it had such low losses when compared to other aircraft.

[Krupi]

Entirely agree Mr Sukebe. It is a shame that the K4 and D9 will stop the Mossie from shining, even if they give it 150 octane.

​​

Regardless I am going to buy it as soon as it hits the store,it is going to be a blast.

[Bozon]

So pretty, it makes your eyes wet 

 

 

[bart]

Nice Bozon.

 

On a secondary note and getting ready for our up and coming FB Mk VI I've just treated myself to a copy of "Terror in the Starboard Seat" by Dave McIntosh, and a copy of "Mosquito" by Sharp & Bowyer. Lots of interesting "gen" in that one.

 

Looks like we won't be seeing the old girl in the virtual skies in 2020 now   I have to admit the last time I was this hyped for a module was the build up to the Spitfire release! that was a few years ago now!!

 

As an addition to an earlier discussion in the thread about the Mosquito's speed advantage when I was firmly put in my place about the K4 being the supreme god when it came to WW2 aircraft, it says in a Preface in one of the books that "for two and a half years the Mosquito was the fastest aeroplane in the fray, friend or foe". Before I get shot down in flames, yes I know this was early in the war and before the birth of the mighty K4!

 

Shame we can't get a balance on the timeline of the WW2 modules, as I have an awful feeling that our Mosquito will be just another victim for the "King K4" on multiplayer servers, whereas if we had a fair balance, and servers that covered early (should ED wish to release some early axis aircraft) and late war aircraft, the old girl may shine in her element once again...

Edited December 8, 2020 by bart

[Bozon]

18 hours ago, bart said:

Nice Bozon.

 

On a secondary note and getting ready for our up and coming FB Mk VI I've just treated myself to a copy of "Terror in the Starboard Seat" by Dave McIntosh, and a copy of "Mosquito" by Sharp & Bowyer. Lots of interesting "gen" in that one.

 

<snip>

 

Shame we can't get a balance on the timeline of the WW2 modules, as I have an awful feeling that our Mosquito will be just another victim for the "King K4" on multiplayer servers, whereas if we had a fair balance, and servers that covered early (should ED wish to release some early axis aircraft) and late war aircraft, the old girl may shine in her element once again...

“Terror in the starboard seat” and Sharp & Bowyer’s book are two “must own” for mosquito fans.

Enjoy 

 

I would not worry too much about the K4. If the mossie dogfighting ability will be anything like it is in Aces High, it will be able to dogfight the K4 well enough. I spent about 15 years in Aces High 2 and 3 almost exclusively with the FB.VI as an air superiority fighter - not exactly what it was meant to do, but it held its own vs. the 1945 monsters. As for 190s, I used to giggle every time a 190A8 or D9 decided to try and dogfight the mossie.

[JimBo*]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:03 AM, bart said:

Nice Bozon.

 

Looks like we won't be seeing the old girl in the virtual skies in 2020 now   I have to admit the last time I was this hyped for a module was the build up to the Spitfire release! that was a few years ago now!!

did i miss an update on its progress... where'd ya here this?

[bart]

31 minutes ago, Porkie said:

did i miss an update on its progress... where'd ya here this?

 

No you didn't miss anything official, don't panic!

 

But, it seems from here Patch Status - DCS World 2.5 - ED Forums (eagle.ru) that the next update to the Open Beta branch is the 16th December, now that's next Wednesday. As ED do monthly updates to the open beta now, and there hasn't been any news on the Mosquito since the newsletter on 13th November showing some great screenshots of the cockpit, but no external model shots or videos as yet from Wags, it seems logical that we won't see the old girl this year.

 

In fact if I had to make a conservative guess, going off what we have seen so far and the course other modules have followed in their lead up to release in the past, I would sadly have to guess that she won't see any time out the hangar before Q2 2021 (probably towards the end of June would be my guess for release). I hope I'm wrong on this though, I really do!

 

Not sure what others think, maybe Nineline can shed a little official light here if we are really lucky

Edited December 9, 2020 by bart

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, bart said:

 

No you didn't miss anything official, don't panic!

 

But, it seems from here Patch Status - DCS World 2.5 - ED Forums (eagle.ru) that the next update is the 16th December, now that's next Wednesday. As ED do monthly updates to the open beta now, and there hasn't been any news on the Mosquito since the newsletter on 13th November showing some great screenshots of the cockpit, but no external model shots or videos as yet from Wags, it seems logical that we won't see the old girl this year.

 

In fact if I had to make a conservative guess, going off what we have seen so far and the course other modules have followed in their lead up to release in the past, I would sadly have to guess that she won't see any time out the hangar before Q2 2021 (probably towards the end of June would be my guess) for release. I hope I'm wrong on this though, I really do!

 

Not sure what others think, maybe Nineline can shed a little official light here if we are really lucky

 

The external model has been posted in the screenshot section some 1 year ago, give or take a few months.

 

[Silver_Dragon]

And show on the 2020 and beyond video, flying 10 mounths ago.