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Su-57 was necessary when the Russians had Su-35s ?


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AN / ASQ-239 is an ELINT and RWR replacement system, it does not fool missiles

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The D/L band radar on Su-57 is interesting yet.

Low frequency aren't as effective as one would think.

Here is radar scattering measurement of F-117 metallic model in an anechoic chamber in Deutsche Aerospace at frequency 0.1-2 Ghz

attachment.php?attachmentid=261936&d=1533610279

and some fun fact about the downed F-117

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=218358


Edited by garrya
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  • 2 weeks later...
Over the past few weeks, I've read so many Western-denigrate writings, claiming that Su-57 is a failed project, personally I think, all just propaganda.

 

words...

 

 

Talks about all the Western-denigrate Propaganda,....then goes on to talk about how the F-22/F-35 are not nearly as good as the SU-35 :thumbup::megalol:

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Talks about all the Western-denigrate Propaganda,....then goes on to talk about how the F-22/F-35 are not nearly as good as the SU-35 :megalol:
Define "as good".

 

If you need a boat to go from shore to island in 50m distance, a small boat is enough for it and you don't need to buy a cruise ship for that.

 

If you need to arm your army, it is better give a simple pistol for all 1500 men, instead only giving a one rail gun to one.

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

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Define "as good".

 

If you need a boat to go from shore to island in 50m distance, a small boat is enough for it and you don't need to buy a cruise ship for that.

 

If you need to arm your army, it is better give a simple pistol for all 1500 men, instead only giving a one rail gun to one.

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

Still, a railgun produces more deterrent than 1500 pistols

 

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— attributed to Major Edward 'Mick' Mannock, RAF, ranking British Empire fighter ace of WWI. 61 victories

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@Fri13

I would rather have a few guys with rifles than 1500 with pistols, because after we shot the first few dozen of them from 500yds, the remaining 1450 would start rethinking the wisdom of their charge =)

 

Besides, that theory doesn't hold true in this case anyway, since the 'railguns' in your example outnumber your 'pistols' by a substantial margin lol As time goes on that disparity in numbers will only worsen =)

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The Su-35 / 30SM and MiG-35 are still a threat to the F-15/16/18 and the F-22/35, why Russian must need the Su-57? Russia will not run expensive arms race with the United States, they will not follow the tracks of the Soviet Union

 

Those who hate the default that stealth is power, the F-22/35 has stealth and it definitely wins in the battles to fight Su-35/30, read my post above.

 

MiG-35 is not a threat to anything. Air Force has just signed an initial pre-production contract for 6 planes to be produced to 2023. Considering the fact, that MiG-29 airframe and systems already proven themselves to be unreliable, MiG-35 is far more a threat to its pilot, than NATO crafts.

Su-30SM is somewhat moderate threat, its overall performance is on par with older types of F-15/EF-2000 - weaker than modern NATO crafts in BVR and comparable in dogfhights, because its subsonic maneuverability is balanced by employment of AIM-9X/IRIS-T/AIM-132 missiles.

Su-35 is overall equal to F-15C with APG-63v3, Hornet with APG-79 and modern versions of Rafale/Typhoon. But it lacks modern missiles and EW systems.

 

Su-57 is too much for the F-15 or Rafale Even the F-22, The F-22 has absolutely can't comparison dogfight with the Su-57

 

Su-57 abiliries in dogfight or BVR are unclear, as well as its avionics, so it is a disputable statement. But it definitely has problems with RCS.

 

Russia needed only a few Kirov-class and Typhoon-class to balance with the NATO Naval during the Cold War, similar to the Seawolf class. And you say Seawolf is a most worse submarine?

 

Nether Kirov, nor Typhoon never balanced anything. Kirov was an overall senseless project, Typhoon was an attempt to build a submarine with solid-fuel ICBMs, but the mainstay of USSR strategic submarine force still was 667-class. And Typhoon has nothing to compare with Seawolf, wich is, frankly, one the best attack submarines ever built.

 

This is obvious, but you can not deny that the Su-35 is good and balanced with the F-22. It also outperforms the F-15.

 

There is no serial plane nowadays balanced with F-22. And Su-35 is balanced only against similar 4+ gen fighters like Rafale.

 

Su-57 and Su-35 rely on ECM to survive, F-22/35 based on stealth

 

ECM is better, stealth can not help you survive

 

F-35 has ECM. F-22 can also employ ECM using its antenna array. But they have stealth as well. Not to mention that ECM and overall avionics on Russian planes is one-two steps lower in technology and performance then western. For example, in Baget-55 series radar computers digital signal processor 1V577 (1В577) is used, and it is similar in overall performance and architecture (if not completely copied) to Motorola DSP 96002. Analogs and copies of MIPS R3000 series are employed as well.

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F-22 is not stealthed, it only reduces RCS.

 

Stealth reduces RCS, you're right. But low-RCS targets are hard to detect.

 

AWACS, radar, OTH radar, Russian IRST can still detect it

 

AWACS works in X-band and has the same difficulties with detecting stealth planes, as fighter radars. OTH radar has poor range resolution and only able to display the presence of the target, it cannot guide weapons. IRST has a narrow instantenious search sector and depends on weather conditions, so it is a lottery.

 

Quit the Internet legend of the stealth supernatural, it is advertising, an aircraft will create turbulence on the radar.

 

Do you know how modern radar works? Do you know why there is a lower limit on target RCS?

 

F-35 was detected on radar ATC (Air Traffic Control)

 

ATC detected it by GPS beacon, not by radar. And also, when flying transfer flights and exercises, F-35 employ additional Luneberg lens reflectors that dramaticaly increase its RCS.

 

And don't remmenber F-117 was shot down

 

Don't forget that this kill was due to concurrency of many factors. Before the kill, colonel Dani has been exploring the ways and timings of F-117 flights for a few days, then it was a brilliant operation of moving his S-125 into position and surviving anti-radar strikes. The day he shot down Nighthawk he had to find a perfect timing to turn his radar on and not to be spotted by NATO reconaissance. F-117 does not have RWR, this is significant too. And also, after he actualy was ready to fire, SNR-125 was found to be unable to lock onto F-117 until 14km distance, and only at 11km it was able to finally employ a hard-lock and guide missile close enough to damage a plane.

 

R-37M, K-77M and K-100 supersonic missiles

K-100 is a prototype, and it is unlikely it well go to series. R-37 is unknow to be operarional, and only can be used from MiG-31BM, wich has rather poor avionics, comparable to N011 in terms of ranges, but with lower SNR. R-77 (RVV-SD) is only for 3 years in production and aprox. 300 missiles are built. So the mainstay are still R-27 for Su-27/30/35 and R-33 for MiG-31.

 

The F-22 has absolutely no equivalent, The F-22 always advertises look first firing first but it can't, In dogfight aircraft more maneuverable like the Su-27/30 will prevail over

 

F-22 can easily stay out of dogfight. Irbis radar, for example, will detect it at 20-30km range.

 

The F-22 does not have the same HMS capability as the Su-27 (HMS + R-73), which has upgraded the HMDS for the F-22 but still marks a completion?

 

Yes, and that's because it settles the rules of engagement.

 

Russia is on the defensive side, they have S300 / 400, Buk-M2E and Pantsir-S1.

 

S-300/400 and Pantsir are object AD, they cover population centers and strategic facilities. Speaking of army AD, there will be Buk, Tor, Tunguska, Osa and Strela.

 

NATO is the offensive side, they do not have that, the obvious disadvantage lies with the attackers

 

NATO don't need it. The best army AD is the Air Force) Also they have sophisticated tactics, specialized crafts and weaponary to supress AD.

 

during the Vietnam War the air force and air force of the US Navy suffered many casualties in front of the Vietnamese air defense and air force Mixed Vietnam

 

Vietnamise missile AD anf Air Force have rather a low score. Most of Phantom kills, for example, were due to low passes, exposed to AAA, wich was very difficult to find these days. Needless to say that in Vietnam there was no strict front line, so those AAA could pop-up literally everywhere.

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Of course we can say stealth is not a binary true/false thing. Most newer airplanes have modifications that help reduce their detection range. An F-35 is more stealthy than an F/A-18E, which is more stealthy than an F/A-18C. It's not all or nothing. It's better not to think in absolutes, but I think we all agree that being detected at shorter range is usually better.

 

 

I think you will find there isn't one country on every conflict in these lists. Just like stealth is not absolute, neither is good/evil. There is not one antagonist of the world. Things usually come in shades of gray rather than black and white, and reality is always more complicated than fiction:

 

Well ofcourse. This is not just about stealth, it's because reality is analog, not digital, also shows who writes wikipedia, but also wikipedia it self then dumbs down the rest of the readers, vicius cycle.

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