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Does Hyperthreading reduce DCS performance?


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Based on this thread, I decided to try turning HT off. My 3DMark Time Spy score fell, due to the CPU score being 30% lower, but the 2 graphics scores were the same.

 

I play in VR with Rift.

 

Now the neat part was in DCS, my frame rates seem to be the same, but gameplay is smoother for sure. There is less of the double vision when I change direction quickly (frame rate stays at 45 as before though). But the benefit is most evident when I am dogfighting. Before when doing the instant action PG guns only BFM, when I am close to the mig and we are maneuvering aggressively, it has the double vision thing. But now it is solid, totally smooth, the mig image does not studder.

 

If you try turning HT off, try doing the guns only Instant action first, then do it after turning HT off and see if there is a difference. Maybe this is only a VR benefit.

 

 

 

My system: i7-8700K with RTX2080ti, 32gb ram, 960 SSD.

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indeed, 70% GPU usage in 2d mode ( not VR ) is a clear sign of a huge bottleneck somewhere.

Your CPU at 4.8G should not cause this actually, wonder what it is ?

 

No idea. I have 16GB of 2400mhz DDR3 RAM. I doubt I will upgrade to 32GB as DDR3 ram is stupidly expensive these days.

 

HT-off certainly made the whole experience alot smoother for me anyway

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I have a I7 8700K, thinking of getting the I9 9900K, any real advantage for DCS or am I wasting money? Already have a 2080 Ti, so not looking for a FPS increase, just looking to reduce stutters.

System specs: Intel i9-9900k OC 5.1Ghz, 32 GB PC3200 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB RAM, Asus Strix 2080 TI OC SLI, Asus Z390 Workstation Pro, 970 EVO 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe and many other SSDs, Alienware 3418DW Widescreen 120 Hz G-Sync Monitor, Corsair H150i PRO RGB CPU Cooler

 

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I have a I7 8700K, thinking of getting the I9 9900K, any real advantage for DCS or am I wasting money? Already have a 2080 Ti, so not looking for a FPS increase, just looking to reduce stutters.

 

Try disabling Hyper Threading in BIOS/UEFI and report back on stutters. ;o)

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Try disabling Hyper Threading in BIOS/UEFI and report back on stutters. ;o)

 

Ok will do it today.

System specs: Intel i9-9900k OC 5.1Ghz, 32 GB PC3200 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB RAM, Asus Strix 2080 TI OC SLI, Asus Z390 Workstation Pro, 970 EVO 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe and many other SSDs, Alienware 3418DW Widescreen 120 Hz G-Sync Monitor, Corsair H150i PRO RGB CPU Cooler

 

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I dont have stutters and I have an AMD CPU, whats wrong with that build?


Edited by Pilotasso

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I dont have stutters and I have an AMD GPU, whats wrong with that build?

 

ASUS PRIME 3270-A, I7 8700K OC (5Ghz) water cooled, 32 Gigs of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 3200 DDR 4 Ram, WD Black 512 GB M.2 NVMe SSD, MSI 2080 TI X Trio OC.

 

Flying around fine but when in the show, dogfighting with several planes or ground pounding or in multiplayer, it stutters every so often and is annoying. All settings almost maxed out but MSAA is off and running in 4K or Oculas VR. Even lowering some of the setting, I still get stutters when alot of activity is going on.

System specs: Intel i9-9900k OC 5.1Ghz, 32 GB PC3200 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB RAM, Asus Strix 2080 TI OC SLI, Asus Z390 Workstation Pro, 970 EVO 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe and many other SSDs, Alienware 3418DW Widescreen 120 Hz G-Sync Monitor, Corsair H150i PRO RGB CPU Cooler

 

Flightgear: HP Reverb Pro, Samsung Odyssey +, Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 Grip & T-50CM2 Base, TM Warthog, TM TPR Rudder, TM Cougar MFDs, Jetseat, Trackir 5, Sennheiser Game One Headset

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ASUS PRIME 3270-A, I7 8700K OC (5Ghz) water cooled, 32 Gigs of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 3200 DDR 4 Ram, WD Black 512 GB M.2 NVMe SSD, MSI 2080 TI X Trio OC.

 

Flying around fine but when in the show, dogfighting with several planes or ground pounding or in multiplayer, it stutters every so often and is annoying. All settings almost maxed out but MSAA is off and running in 4K or Oculas VR. Even lowering some of the setting, I still get stutters when alot of activity is going on.

 

Google "Process Lasso", you can set DCS.exe up for single threaded performance which does the same thing as disabling hyperthreading except it's only for the .exe files you specify rather than turning off the feature all together.

 

Hyperthreading is the selling point of 8th gen and lower i7's or i9 with 9th gen. On early gen i7's you could reach higher overclocks by disabling it, but the 8700k overclocks with it on just fine.

 

There MAY be some truth to DCS running better on physical cores rather than logical cores, but you don't need to disable the feature entirely to achieve that with specific programs with a program like Process Lasso. That way you have hyperthreading for the extra horsepower if you use any applications that benefit from multi-threaded performance. I.E. better overall system performance.

 

If DCS is the ONLY thing you use your computer for disabling hyper-threading isn't a big deal, but you might as well have bought a CPU that doesn't feature hyperthreading to begin with and saved a buck imo. But if you use it for more than that, and alt tab to browse the internet inbetween sorties, or run discord in the background or various other programs keep the hyperthreading on and check out Process Lasso, you only have to pay for it if you want to support the developer.

 

(This advice isn't specifically for the poster I'm responding to) Also - just as general PC advice because we never know how much people know about personal computers - if your rig aint running how it should it's always good to check motherboard manufacturer website for driver updates at least once a month on hardware released within the last year or three, as well as drivers for any other peripherals or hardware in your system. Windows updates tend to break old drivers from time to time, also having a z370 asus board myself, Asus has been updating the BIOS for them regularly if you haven't checked on that in awhile, some of which in response to some of the latest windows updates. Take pics of your bios settings with a cell phone before flashing, as you will have to reconfigure your OC as long as you're certain it's stable, and never cut the power to your PC during the flashing process. Let it finish and it will reboot a couple times before you can get back into bios to configure your setup. Not trying to offend anyone who may already understand basic PC maintenance, but it's good to keep in mind for anybody who's still learning what comes with PC gaming.


Edited by Headwarp

Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = VKB Gunfighter III + MCGU, Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds, 2x TM Cougar MFD panels

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Google "Process Lasso", you can set DCS.exe up for single threaded performance which does the same thing as disabling hyperthreading except it's only for the .exe files you specify rather than turning off the feature all together.

 

Headwarp, I'm not a technical person, but I was/am using Process Lasso and set DCS to the porformance setting. But when I turned HT off in the bios, I noticed a clear improvement as mentioned in my post above. So HT must be doing something else to slow DCS or the graphics card even with process lasso having DCS in the single core performance setting.

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ASUS PRIME 3270-A, I7 8700K OC (5Ghz) water cooled, 32 Gigs of G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 3200 DDR 4 Ram, WD Black 512 GB M.2 NVMe SSD, MSI 2080 TI X Trio OC.

 

Flying around fine but when in the show, dogfighting with several planes or ground pounding or in multiplayer, it stutters every so often and is annoying. All settings almost maxed out but MSAA is off and running in 4K or Oculas VR. Even lowering some of the setting, I still get stutters when alot of activity is going on.

 

wait, I know what you mean now. Multiplayer does have a problem where the game microfreezes from time to time, but I believe that has to be with sync issues rather than your hardware having difficulty handling it because everyone is getting that. Sorry I didnt make that association at first. Dont change your hardware to fix this issue because it wont solve that problem as its not on your side. The 8700 Is plenty sufficient for the game as it is now.

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My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum

CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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Headwarp, I'm not a technical person, but I was/am using Process Lasso and set DCS to the porformance setting. But when I turned HT off in the bios, I noticed a clear improvement as mentioned in my post above. So HT must be doing something else to slow DCS or the graphics card even with process lasso having DCS in the single core performance setting.

 

I find that strange but I'll have to take your word for it. There are certainly some games I've run into that run better with the CPU affinity set to only cores 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 on my 8700k but that improvement was seen using process lasso.

 

The questions I'd ask are - are you certain you set DCS.exe to always>single threaded performance mode vs current>single threaded performance mode? Is there a background task, maybe like anti-virus/windows defender or anything really that might not perform as well on logical cores as it would on physical?

 

Windows power management settings set to "High Performance?"

 

Were you running an overclock that may have caused additional voltage requirements with hyperthreading on? Which is more likely on a less current i7 than something within the last 2-3 generations. Sometimes a lack of voltage isn't immediately obvious. In most cases too low a voltage will cause your entire system to crash, but I've also witnessed "passing" stress tests that would cause a few seconds of system hangup constantly through the process, and a .25 voltage increase would smooth that out. Or even disabling hyper-threading might allow for lower voltage requirements.

 

Chipset drivers are current? BIOS version is current? CPU running at desired speed in task manager I.E. no throttling? What generation of i7?

 

Back when I first built my i7 8700k rig coming from my i5 2500k@4.5ghz using the same 980Ti and SSD's in both, there was no real noticeable performance difference between the two rigs. I use the comparison because the i5 2500k doesn't feature hyperthreading. Then again I was already GPU limited at the time, and I may have run into bottlenecks if I had simply upgraded just my GPU. (pretty sure 3440x1440 and VR would still pin a 1080Ti if I had bought that instead of a new computer, but it was time if nothing else for ease of configuration)

 

If it works better for you by all means do what you gotta do. But afaik there shouldn't be a difference between running an executable with cpu affinity set to only physical cores and running that same executable on a system with hyper-threading disabled given the specs are otherwise identical.

 

I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence..so forgive me if you've already assured yourself of these suggestions. These are just things that would go through my mind if I experienced something similar. Personally if I pay for hyperthreading, I want my hyperthreading hehe. The difference between hyperthreading and no hyperthreading on a CPU is sometimes more than $100, (9th gen it's more like $200) and i5's overclock pretty darn well. 8600k reportedly getting to 5ghz as easily as it's i7 counterpart. I use my rig for way more than DCS. And it very well could be I'm not noticing a difference because of the resolutions I play at, causing the GPU to have a higher workload than my CPU.

 

Just me personally your scenario would cause me to investigate potential issues with my rig. I'm not saying you have any system issues.. just that if it were my system behaving that way I'd suspect and start going through my troubleshooting routines. Flight sims are resource hogs, and at times have helped me identify system errors that just don't occur (or at least dont affect gameplay) in older or less resource intensive games.

 

*Edit* - Just also want to throw out there that recent generations of intel chips with hyperthreading are a different thing than older generations of intel chips with hyperthreading, at the very least when it comes to overclocking. When I built the 2500k rig I had prior to this one, i7 users were struggling to get to 4.5ghz and above, 1080P was pretty much a standard resolution and disabling hyperthreading allowed for higher cpu clocks with less voltage As gpu's got better at handling 1080P higher clockspeeds began to matter more in the gaming world. That may still be the case, but people are breaking 5ghz at like 1.3-1.35v on 8th gen intels at least with hyperthreading enabled and I don't generally see disabling it suggested for OC purposes on newer chipsets. I don't know at what point in recent history allowed for better efficiency, but I'd say at least up to 3rd gen it was common practice to disable HT for overclocking purposes.

 

My apologies for my wordiness I dont know why I can talk about this stuff for days. In the long run, it's your money and your PC, so do what works best for you. What I've said can be taken with a grain of salt, as there are too many specifics about any given individual's system that I just can't know without a comprehensive inquiry. Fortunately, disabling/endabling HT isn't a difficult task.


Edited by Headwarp

Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = VKB Gunfighter III + MCGU, Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds, 2x TM Cougar MFD panels

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Wow, that was a long post, but thanks for the detail Headwarp. My system: Oculus Rift, i7-8700K overclocked to 5.1GHz, 32gb ram, 960 Samsung SSD. It may be a voltage thing, I don't know. I have tried the other things you mentioned though. I only run DCS, no virus protection or other programs except for SRS and discord for multiplayer comms and of course Rift. I find it interesting that intel's new i7 chip 9700k has no HT. Too bad none of the benchmark reviews include DCS.

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Wow, that was a long post, but thanks for the detail Headwarp. My system: Oculus Rift, i7-8700K overclocked to 5.1GHz, 32gb ram, 960 Samsung SSD. It may be a voltage thing, I don't know. I have tried the other things you mentioned though. I only run DCS, no virus protection or other programs except for SRS and discord for multiplayer comms and of course Rift. I find it interesting that intel's new i7 chip 9700k has no HT. Too bad none of the benchmark reviews include DCS.

 

Yeah I'm completely surprised by the fact that the i7 9th gen comes without hyperthreading. That used to be what made the i7 the i7. Pretty weird shift in marketing design.

 

9700k from what I gather should outperform the 8700K in multi-threaded apps afaik though. Reviews may prove me wrong.

 

I might play around with disabling HT after my 2080 Ti gets here and see if I notice any difference in performance between that and using process lasso. Just help me pull my foot out of my mouth if it turns out I'm just wrong k? Sorry again for being so wordy. Very few topics I can find so much to say about. Start talking pc hardware or talk to me like a musician and it's hard to shutup sometimes.


Edited by Headwarp

Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = VKB Gunfighter III + MCGU, Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds, 2x TM Cougar MFD panels

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From what i read, early reviews and leaks etc.., the 8700k will just beat the 9700k in Multitasking by a few %. Those 2 are quite similar at the bottom line.

 

 

Either way, I would not buy any CPU w/o HT or SMT, time will come when it matters in DCS.

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From what i read, early reviews and leaks etc.., the 8700k will just beat the 9700k in Multitasking by a few %. Those 2 are quite similar at the bottom line.

 

 

Either way, I would not buy any CPU w/o HT or SMT, time will come when it matters in DCS.

 

I'm honestly quite curious how the 9600K is going to compare to the 8600K. I wouldn't be caught off guard if they were pretty similar, just one not requiring a delid to achieve extreme clockspeeds with reasonable temps.

Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 4.9ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = VKB Gunfighter III + MCGU, Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds, 2x TM Cougar MFD panels

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I'm honestly quite curious how the 9600K is going to compare to the 8600K. I wouldn't be caught off guard if they were pretty similar, just one not requiring a delid to achieve extreme clockspeeds with reasonable temps.

 

 

exactly what I think, refined and easier to use

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Sure, but those are small things I consider negible, I don't run MSI Afterburner or anything in the background so it wasn't a focus point for me, but ofcourse, I just didn't mention it because it wasn't meant to be a full explanation post

 

Yeah I didn't include to mention "the math" cause I didn't want to repeat all thr details what I already wrote about in that thread.

 

Secondly I many times write things in general but use the quote as a helper for a point or two, not everything I wrote was aimed as a reply to your specific case.

 

I'm talking about my own case where I have 4 cores, there's little difference except the % math in the total CPU utilization, it's again a "insert specific case number", which I didn't feel was that important to do as again I'm talking in general half the time. I would have done it if I wasn't busy these days.

 

I wasn't giving CPU purchasing advice, I thought it was pretty obvious (after all in that thread) that if you have a quad core you'll be a bit better off than dual-core, I was focusing on whether DCS is dual or more threaded, those extra little threads aren't significant so I just ignore them, plus not sure if those run async maybe they have to wait for stuff in the main. Unless more significant components are split and actually run async, like 10-20% speed up then we could start saying more about that, and mainly if they affect FPS, that's what mostly was my test, if it affects FPS (up in the right corner in the video), that said, a large part is still going to be single threaded for the forseeable future, and the use of this "multithreaded" moniker is so ridicolous for so many reasons.

 

Well I found your post informative Worrazen. I'm one of those who thought TaskManager was telling the truth, load spreading for temp control ect; and based a lot of advice posts on the back of it in the past.

 

After reading your post, I now realise I do not know enough to be offering sound advice to others and should keep quiet.

 

So your post has at least one positive..... it has stopped me from embarrassing myself further. :doh:

System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2.

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  • 1 month later...

Im playing on a titan x, 16GB ram and OC'd my 4770k to 4.4Ghz and turned off HT. Usually get a solid 45 - 55 fps in VR on medium to low settings. Stutter central in valleys at low altitude in the viggen but same fps. HT on and OC down to 4.0Ghz and smooth as butter! Weird or what... should also mention that my phase time is 0.1ms with lower OC and 0.8ms on a higher OC, but thats not really too surprising given that the higher the CPU clock speed the longer the CPU is waiting for the GPU to process a frame.

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