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Official servers will be EDSA run and User run. But yeah, more info to come.

 

 

Simple question, will ED being releasing a dedicated server exe that

people can use to host on their own systems ?

METAR weather for DCS World missions

 

Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE

Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203

SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245

Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests

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To put it bluntly, 2.7 DCS dedicated server is falling over more often than a one legged man in a bottom kicking contest The server is running then it freaks out and starts speaking in Klingon in

I've had a couple of server crashes as of late. Perhaps it's similar to what we had several months ago?   dcs.log

I always send the crash report immediately which is generated automatically after a server crash. Thought that does the work actually.

Simple question, will ED being releasing a dedicated server exe that

people can use to host on their own systems ?

 

The first steps of this will most likely be a simple dedicated server tool, expanding into something bigger and larger as it develops, but as I said, more news to come, and sooner than later on this.

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Just in the interim until we release the dedicated server and some other improvements to improve stability. The more I looked into the composition of some of the online missions, the more I see that many are far too overloaded. Once we get the DS out and some other improvements, it's my expectation that DCS can handle such huge missions and perhaps even larger.

 

Also, I'd imagine that you'll find the PG map to be the most stable and the Caucasus map the least.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

 

Great that you have done some looking into this

So what are the numbers ? how many is "too overloaded" ? 200 300 400 ?

 

 

We have removed about as much as we can from our mission in the hopes of making it run better

It is very light on scripting but we still get issues eg cargo crates stuck in the air


Edited by Johnny_Rico

METAR weather for DCS World missions

 

Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE

Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203

SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245

Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests

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We all want the same thing, and the DS and other network improvements should help make that a reality. There just needs to be a realistic balance of mission composition and what the engine can manage for online play. There are some very talented mission creators out there and I’m sure they’ll find that right balance.

 

DS is very much in the fast track now that 2.5 is out.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

This right here, is basically everything I personally could have hoped for with the transition to 2.5. Not just the DS being on the fast track, but the general picking up the pace and getting to the bottom of some long standing issues.

 

I would ask the community to embrace the fact that 2.5 was a big deal. Whatever the reasons behind it, prior to the release of 2.5, the devs were juggling different versions of the client while we keep piling things onto the wish-list.

 

2018 is a good year for combat flight sims. It's basically a new beginning. Before we know it hardware will improve, and I feel Eagle Dynamics intends to step up to the plate. The pace has increased. We have to remember things won't happen overnight.

 

Both single player and MP have their flaws, but I don't believe ED's hands are idle.

 

I want to thank Wags, ED, and Nineline for making it official that a pure server client is in the works.

 

I also have to give props to the DDCS server admin, Drex. I don't know him personally but I'd have never bought the Mi-8 even on sale if not for his server setup. Fixing the "uncontrollable" tag in the mission editor for units could do a lot to help him out while we wait for a server executable.

 

ED, those of us who most passionately argue our points are undoubtedly hopeful fans that have witnessed the potential the sim provides and are dying for the next list of improvements to DCS World. Forgive us. And in turn, I hope the community remembers to show appreciation when you come through for us.


Edited by Headwarp

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MP Server

 

Just noting as another individual who has waited a long time to see the possibility of using server code that handles many more units moving and firing on the server at once without tanking the frame rate into the 15-20 fps range. Maybe using a multithreaded approach to the data crunching on the server side?

I've bought about half of the modules over years hoping to have this come, but have held off obtaining any more until there is something more tangable released. Would happily spend endless hours tinkering with personally created missions once there is progress. Have gut feeling 5-10 ai B17s all firing against nearby enemy aircraft will simply cause severe issues for servers currently.

Looking forward to any improvements coming on the server capability front and any improvements to ww2 units / content updates.

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Thanks Wags for the reply. I know you guys must be busy with all the new content you are making but please try and squeeze in some time for the issues with multiplayer. A dedicated server build wouldn't hurt either :D

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One thing I see mentioned every now and then in this thread, and others, is "balance" issues. I shudder when I see that word. I don't want an arcade game where things are balanced for "fair and competitive play." If that's what you want, there are other options for you. DCS must stay sim focussed.

 

Some platforms and weapons will be better than others, deal with it. If you think it's that much of a problem, go look what some people who are dedicated to the F-5 and MiG-21 is able to do.

 

On topic: A big improvement will be a dedicated headless server client, that runs on Linux. A more stable and flexible OS, that foregoes licencing and doesn't require a GPU. That's a massive cost reduction and performance overhead reduction that will bump overall server performance by a great deal.

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In my opinion, should be the MP in better shape, DCS would be way further. Because it would attract way more people already, meaning more cash. I think there is quite big player base which will play only MP but rather go for other game because - and be honest to ourselves - its more pain than fun to play MP in DCS. And we are playing games for having fun, not having pain, right? If ED wants more players and money for their work and development, they must focus MP strongly. I understand that SP carry you now, but good MP can carry way more. DCS is now wasting its potential.

The Ancient Fox

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NineLine, I have the same issue. Only can play on SP and some "lights" servers. With 16 Gbs RAM DDR 3 has imposible connect to a normal server or populate servers. I think purchase an new computer with 32-64 Gb RAM on a far future to fix the issue. That problem coming with the 2.5.

 

Here's what I have

i7 4930K @ 4.4

GTX 1080

RAM 32 GB, upgraded after being suggested that 16gb wasn't enough for DCS on this forum

Window 10

Game on SSD

 

 

No improvement from my end, I get kicked and the loading time is very long on most server.

 

I am happy to read from Matt that DCS take this issue seriously


Edited by Decibel dB
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While I agree for the most part, in the interim, I would suggest that MP mission builders re-examine the composition of their missions... particularly for the Caucasus map that already has a huge object count. While the dedicated serer should certainly help, we'll also be doing our best to improve stability beyond just the DS.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

Late reply... but

 

Some guidance (ie best practices) to mission building for multiplayer would help. What to, and not to, include in scripting etc.

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I'll make a longer post soon of what we've done on BlueFlag.

 

On our OVH server we have very good performance even when it's got 50+ players and rarely experience crashes now.

 

We run the oldest online dynamic campaign, all state is persisted with a live map and the saving of dropped / unpacked units between restarts. We have ai ground and ai units, but don't have any convoys on the ground for the reasons below.

 

Scripting is blamed a lot for lag, but we've found that's not the case, as long as you benchmark and optimise - Lua is pretty speedy.

 

The main reasons for lag spikes (excluding initial load times)

 

- AI units (including wrecks)

- AI sensors

- AI pathfinding /moving

- model loads (a new unit, missile etc appearing)

 

We also dynamically turn on / off AI units if they're not in range of enemies to redice the amount of active AI.

 

You do not need a beefy GPU in your server, our OVH one has a matrox, which is really just for remote access.

 

The BlueFlag code itself is not open source, but I've opensourced pretty much everything that makes it up.

 

The only change we've made to MIST which we use for spawning and all the many amazing helper methods, is turning off the job it runs to list alive and dead units as we do that ourselves.

 

I'm not trying to say there aren't problems, just saying it is possible to have a large mission and migitate some of the causes listed above - but it does take a lot of effort. We've been doing it for years! :)

 

Feel free to PM me, or other team members of BuddySpike if you want pointers / help

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


Edited by Ciribob

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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Its hard to draw comparisons to other games, especially when the PFM in one module probably has more going on internally than most of those games do over all... ok that might be a little extreme, but the point is, DCS is more complex, larger and doing more at any given time than most games out there. Just do a map comparison some time to these other military sims/games, you wont find many running DCS size, plus doing all the complexity of FMs better than military grade sims, plus everything else it does. If it was easy to make the perfect MP environment, and ED controlled all variables, we would have done it already. Its not that simple, and we do not control all variables.

 

Sith, this kind of response is why people on Hoggit and elsewhere don't think you're being that helpful in this thread.

 

Kocrachon said some very specific and straightforward things for exception handling and being able to cope with mission lua script failures.

These are most definitely things that can be tackled.

 

Handwaving those good suggestions for dev focus by going "DCS has PFM's in modules, and is just more complex overall" isn't an acceptable response to a technical suggestion and simply makes it look that just like the rest of us, you don't know what's going on under the hood on a technical level.

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Windows is not the reason a GPU is needed. The GPU is needed because DCS does not have a server client and thus it is still rendering all of the content (even when "rendering" is disabled).

 

Hence the "headless server client" bit in my post... :rolleyes:

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All valid points ciribob. In order to pull off something like you guys have built requires massive dedication. Extensive knowledge and skills in coding and scripting usually through professional training

It is beyond the realm of even a committed fan with some knowledge and skills to replicate in most cases.

Relying on people of exceptional skill and commitment to overcome the hurdles in order to provide a good mp experience is not an ideal solution

People WANT to build what you have built but are simply incapable of doing so without tools and support.

 

I am grateful you and a small number of others have done what you have done but what would be even better is if most people with a bit of motivation were capable of the same results. Our mp community would explode and flourish if this were the case.

 

 

I'll make a longer post soon of what we've done on BlueFlag.

 

On our OVH server we have very good performance even when it's got 50+ players and rarely experience crashes now.

 

We run the oldest online dynamic campaign, all state is persisted with a live map and the saving of dropped / unpacked units between restarts. We have ai ground and ai units, but don't have any convoys on the ground for the reasons below.

 

Scripting is blamed a lot for lag, but we've found that's not the case, as long as you benchmark and optimise - Lua is pretty speedy.

 

The main reasons for lag spikes (excluding initial load times)

 

- AI units (including wrecks)

- AI sensors

- AI pathfinding /moving

- model loads (a new unit, missile etc appearing)

 

We also dynamically turn on / off AI units if they're not in range of enemies to redice the amount of active AI.

 

You do not need a beefy GPU in your server, our OVH one has a matrox, which is really just for remote access.

 

The BlueFlag code itself is not open source, but I've opensourced pretty much everything that makes it up.

 

The only change we've made to MIST which we use for spawning and all the many amazing helper methods, is turning off the job it runs to list alive and dead units as we do that ourselves.

 

I'm not trying to say there aren't problems, just saying it is possible to have a large mission and migitate some of the causes listed above - but it does take a lot of effort. We've been doing it for years! :)

 

Feel free to PM me, or other team members of BuddySpike if you want pointers / help

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

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I'm glad this is getting attention. From my point of view I'd like to see the following implemented (just basic stuff)

 

- Dedicated Server software runnable via command line, preferably Linux compatible

- The ability to run servers regardless of mods or maps. ie, not requiring the server admin to invest twice in maps just so a server can be run

- An official administrative protocol so we can administer servers remotely

- An open master server protocol so that servers can be queried and third party server browsers can be built

- Command line options on the client so we can connect directly to servers (dcs.exe +connect <server_ip> +password blah

- Dynamic trickle loading of skins. Allow skins to be distributed dynamically to clients via a trickle download

- Ability to have a HTTP redirect to mod assets when a client connects, automatically downloading the mods for the client without any intervention

- A proper IP/Unique Id user management system for permanent bans and kicks

- A chat system that does not mix server messages with client messages

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I've also run a dedicated server for several years and echo the thoughts of many here. I also don't post much about the subject of MP stability as it has been done to death and ED have time and again said that the Dedicated Server is coming.

 

However, just to add to the pile of wishes for this to be a priority based on the 'squeaky wheel' principle... I'd like a Dedicate MP server please!

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Im having problems too in multiplayer and are the season i play more singleplayer, I want to play multiplayer in DCS but bugs and problems won't let me...

 

 

Its not that once I join a server theres bad ping (there isn't, although when someone connects no matter the server I get a several seconds Complete screeen freeze...), but the problem is that the server takes Ages to load even with very good internet connection (while singleplayer big missions don't.

 

 

In fact I've been able to "solve" this problem by loading a server and once Im able to join (after 5 good minutes) I need to qucikly click on disconnect (which won't even respond for 1 minute), wait until I get back to the main menu (1-2 minutes more) and then finally try to join again the same server (several more minutes).... This works, this makes the second time I join the server actually go smooth once im inside, it avoids crashes and it avoids the "DISCONNECTED" error I get.....

 

 

This isn't acceptable by any means.... its taking me nearly 20 minutes or more to get into a plane in multiplayer while in singleplayer it loads under a single minute, it is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Now before you all jump on me, I have 16Gb of ram and a GeForce 960, loading times aren't an issue in games I've played until I played DCS multiplayer. I repeat, singleplayer works well, multi not so much.

 

 

 

I usually never visit these forums, but I had to do it now. It isn't acceptable multiplayer is neglected and unplayable for many people and that the response is that people don't care for multiplayer.... The season not so many people play multiplayer or talk on the multiplayer forum is because they are unable to even enter the mode (not meaning they don't want to).

 

 

Having payed for more than 10 modules as many people here I find quite hard they don't have the resources to fix these problems specially after all these years. Thank you if you read until this point.

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I'll make a longer post soon of what we've done on BlueFlag.

 

On our OVH server we have very good performance even when it's got 50+ players and rarely experience crashes now.

 

We run the oldest online dynamic campaign, all state is persisted with a live map and the saving of dropped / unpacked units between restarts. We have ai ground and ai units, but don't have any convoys on the ground for the reasons below.

 

Scripting is blamed a lot for lag, but we've found that's not the case, as long as you benchmark and optimise - Lua is pretty speedy.

 

The main reasons for lag spikes (excluding initial load times)

 

- AI units (including wrecks)

- AI sensors

- AI pathfinding /moving

- model loads (a new unit, missile etc appearing)

 

We also dynamically turn on / off AI units if they're not in range of enemies to redice the amount of active AI.

 

You do not need a beefy GPU in your server, our OVH one has a matrox, which is really just for remote access.

 

The BlueFlag code itself is not open source, but I've opensourced pretty much everything that makes it up.

 

The only change we've made to MIST which we use for spawning and all the many amazing helper methods, is turning off the job it runs to list alive and dead units as we do that ourselves.

 

I'm not trying to say there aren't problems, just saying it is possible to have a large mission and migitate some of the causes listed above - but it does take a lot of effort. We've been doing it for years! :)

 

Feel free to PM me, or other team members of BuddySpike if you want pointers / help

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

 

Thanks for posting this I look forward to a more through post detailing how

to make the server / mission run better ?

METAR weather for DCS World missions

 

Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE

Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203

SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245

Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests

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First of all I want to say thank you to the ED team. I have been along for the ride ever since I was in grade 4 (many many years ago lmao), I would do everything I can to go to the school library and play Flanker (some one installed it there). I had no clue what I was doing but I can pin point that time in my life to my love of air planes and flight sims. So thank you everyone at ED.

 

I would agree with all the post here that polish and fixes need to happen to keep pushing DCS forward into the future. Multiplayer is huge part of this wonderful sim now and it does need some love.

 

Something I would suggest along with fixes and polish for MP is having player made livery show up on servers without having to manually download them. Something like iracing, Forza or steel battalion (first xbox). Even something like having a squad logo, like how Arma 3 does it, on the plane would be cool. Something to make players feel more connected to the world without the server to downloading the livery manually. Things like that to make the multiplayer more modern would be awesome.

 

Of course other things need to be looked at first, just something that has always been in my mind.

 

Keep up the good work and thank you for listening to the community.


Edited by Sneak69
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You do not need a beefy GPU in your server, our OVH one has a matrox, which is really just for remote access.

 

Yeah, the problem is usually that you requite a GPU that supports DX and 3D acceleration. Most chips that are in high end server are in fact only made to do simple 2D displaying of graphics.

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@pyro

No, I of course support improvements of any and all kinds, including multiplayer. But I also recognise not every game is capable or suitable for certain activities.

 

The Total War series has thousands of soldiers present... each individually with only extremely rudimentary pathfinding, part of larger 'groups' with only slightly less rudimentary pathfinding, directed by a single AI that runs off mostly prescripted conditional based actions, all on a very small hand made map. You can do a ''lot'' if there is nothing behind it.

 

Would it be nice to have this kind of environment for DCS? Yes. Do some games achieve something similar? Yes... but I assure you they're using lots of cheats and shortcuts to make it happen. It's fine to shoot for the stars, but I think people very frequently develop unreasonable expectations.

 

I often use the example of my time in an Arma clan that I got fed up with due to their incredibly sloppy design. A 'living world' is a,lovely concept, but when 99% of what's taking place has nothing to do with the task at hand, it serves no purpose except to generate lag, draw the fps down, and increase instability.

 

I'm well aware of how very talented many of these people are and how much effort goes into their productions... it's also completely irrelevant. In very many cases people are outright trying to do too much.

 

Does it have to be 16 player? No.

 

Is trying to do 'everything for everybody under every circumstance in a perpetually generating environment' a good idea? No.

 

It doesn't matter what kind of 'design' it is. Mission design, game design, movie production, inteeior design, whatever, the accepted understood by all of humanity principle is 'pick a few things and do them well, rather than trying to do everything poorly.'

 

Money and time may not be issues you have to worry about, but bandwidth, stability, and general functionality are indeed finite resources you have to budget. Even as they improve things, even in everybody's favorite example games of people 'doing it better than ED' that reality exists : there is an upper limit to what is feasibly achievable. That isn't due to incompetence it's due to that dastardly villian Reality (see South Park for more).

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Yeah, the problem is usually that you requite a GPU that supports DX and 3D acceleration. Most chips that are in high end server are in fact only made to do simple 2D displaying of graphics.
Oh agreed - I was just trying to make the point that an i7 integrated GPU would do the job. Don't go sticking a 980ti in your "dedicated" server as it won't make a bit of difference to performance.

 

Key things are:

SSD

Good bandwidth

Low ping

CPU with great single thread performance and as high GHz as you can get.

16GB Ram +

 

Really the same as your DCS pc minus an amazing graphics card :)

 

Obviously if / when we get dedicated servers, hopefully this requirements will be less.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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Personally, I'm just glad to see this dialogue happening. I've been wondering for a long time whether or not MP was ever going to get the attention it deserved.

 

 

 

I'm really glad to hear about the DS and I'm glad Nineline made a snide comment that got misrepresented, because it spawned an actual conversation about the future of MP in DCS.

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Oh agreed - I was just trying to make the point that an i7 integrated GPU would do the job. Don't go sticking a 980ti in your "dedicated" server as it won't make a bit of difference to performance.

 

Key things are:

SSD

Good bandwidth

Low ping

CPU with great single thread performance and as high GHz as you can get.

16GB Ram +

 

Really the same as your DCS pc minus an amazing graphics card :)

 

Obviously if / when we get dedicated servers, hopefully this requirements will be less.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, i had a tough one trying to find server hardware that had CPU's that would fit in enterprise motherboards but still had integrated grahics. Because remember, intel is garbage. Because you have to have a CPU that fit in the same socket as the mobo, but then even if the socket is the same the chipset is not. Well ok, so we buy one of the few Xeon E3v4 that have integrated graphics to fit into our mobo, well, guess what? The mobo has a graphics chip too that cannot be dissabled and because the chipset sees it as a third party grahics chip it will always use that because its "more powerful" (its not).

 

In the end using workstation hardware in a rack mount chassis the the best way to go about this, however, because its workstation hardware you have to use workstation coolers that dont fit in your standard 1 or 2u servers so now you have to forfit 3 other customers in your rack because you need a 3 or 4u server. If you rent out servers for 150 bucks a month per unit then your loose 450 bucks a month on a DCS server from a company perspective.

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DDCS Standard server runs:

i7-7700k

32 gigs DDR4 ram

M.2 NVME samsung 960 EVO

small graphics card (1050ti)

1 gig fiber connection

 

At peak 50 players about 40Mbit/sec uploading used

this server runs at 50fps, 1100 units(every base has a full complement of defense units, the entire map is opened up, so anyone can attack anywhere without limit) at 50 players, it crashes very rarely (except when booting up, we need to lock port). Most people are have Lots of fun, We allow ground units to be built and used in my simulation (mostly no lag even with 20-30 units running around) - We have done MANY tweaks getting it to run this well, including moving all logic off the server(tcp socket). Even with this many units, the gameplay is great, really really fun!

 

DDCS Hardcore server (about to be launched)

i7-8700K

32 gigs DDR4 ram

m.2 NVME samsung EVO 970

1050ti video

1 gig fiber connection

 

Stats on this machine we don't have yet public yet, this experience is built for veteran players, bases farther apart, 312 total units but the SAME code base as standard with different options, still piping all logic off the server through tcp socket. Server empty right now runs a 220 fps, (standard when empty runs at 160fps or so)

 

DDCS going for an incredible experience, and there are a lot of things in the pipeline, we literally cant code it fast enough.

 

Our Mesg To ED:

We are fine with your idea of 'Official Servers', as long as third party multiplayer developers can still have access to the enhancements of the API and the dedicated server client(even if fee based, but opening it up will spur more development).

 

We are guessing that ED will be adding to the internal API (getters and setters to the base equipment allocations, more granular control over group movements(smarter AI), more control into the options that the units are spawned in with, ammo, states etc, we can talk about this if you like, We have a wishlist, things that are holding us back on some ideas)

 

Even giving us a restful API hookup through an outside socket interface or just DLL access to develop a restful API would be great, the community has great talent, let us have the options to do so.

 

-Drex

DDCS Developer

Developer of DDCS MP Engine, dynamicdcs.com

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208608

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