“Lead” a ball?

[ESzczesniak]

Can someone clarify in the LSO rules to live by, what they mean by “leading” a ball?

 

I understand that low and slow is a bad deadly place to be and high and fast at least gives you safety to fly another pass if you don’t trap. I’m just not sure what they mean by “lead” when taking about never low and slow, always high and fast.

Edited July 8, 2018 by ESzczesniak

[Cik]

stay above middle of ball readout, lead the deck by holding TVV forward of wires

 

 

that's what i do though i can't confirm whether that's what they mean or not

[WildBillKelsoe]

put your velocity vector ahead of the meatball emplacement. because that 150 meter strip is constantly moving to your right, you need a reference in horizontal plane. The best reference that combines the two (landing strip orientation, and leads meatball) is the crotch. The forward part that joins the landing deck with the continuation of cats 1 and 2.

 

If you are high you should see it than if you were low, you wont.

[ESzczesniak]

I understand the concepts you’re both pointing out. I’m just confused by the language. I interpret those lines as:

 

1. Never be both low and slow, avoid either low or slow as best as possible

2. Error high and/or fast.

 

But I’m not fully understanding f the language. So I’m trying to understand it to be sure I’m not missing a finer point.

[ESzczesniak]

As I understand, lead means to anticipate when ball will stop moving and change power in advance.

 

I could see that and seems to fit with my interpretation.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Can someone clarify in the LSK rules to live by, what they mean by “leading” a ball?

 

 

 

I understand that low and slow is a bad deadly place to be and high and fast at least gives you safety to fly another pass if you don’t trap. I’m just not sure what they mean by “lead” when taking about never low and slow, always high and fast.

 

 

I thought it meant making the ball move where you need it to go (to the centre) with your plane manoeuvres. So in a sense you 'lead the ball' to where it needs to be.

[StandingCow]

Sorta like flying a helicopter... you have to react to what it is about to do instead of what it is currently doing.

[FightsOn]

Rules of Ball Flying;

 

1.) Never Lead a Low or Slow

2.) Always Lead a High and Fast

3.) If Low and Slow fix the Low then the Slow

4.) If High and Fast fix the Fast, then the High

5.) Never recenter a high ball In-Close

6.) Fly the ball all the way to touchdown.

 

So, what does leading mean? Leading means anticipating the next power correction. So if you are high, and make a power off correction, you'll "lead" the next power on correction to stop the ball before it actually gets 'centered'. So you really want to go from high, to a little less high, to a little less high...that's what is referred to as 'chipping it down'. You don't want to go from high to centered, since if you overshoot you're not low.

 

Now, why don't we lead a low? Because if you add power to go from low to on glideslope, and lead the power off correction, you can end up staying below glideslope, which we don't want to do. Get the ball at least to the datums, then make your power off correction, realizing that you have traded a low for a high, which you can now lead, and chip back down.

[Jabbers_]

See here:

 

 

Also from my script used in the video

 

Q: What does an energized ball mean?

A: Keep the ball high rather than low, a low ball can be disastrous for you and more importantly the ship…No one cares if you die, but if the ship gets damaged and the mission has to restart, well, that is something that will be cared about. If the ball is high, the worst case is you bolter, or just get waved off, but slamming into the back of the ship, that’s just embarrassing...

 

Q: Can you further explain the LSO rules “Never lead a low or slow”

A: If you have a low ball you're looking to get back on the happy side (high = safe = happy). Make a correction to get back to the happy side immediately no matter how low you are, and keep that correction till you're on the happy side. This would imply a power addition, however it doesn't mean go full mil to get it back, it simply means increase your neutral power point to get back on the happy side of the datums before the next part of the groove (if you're low at the start, try to be a little high in the middle). Same with being slow on the AOA, make an immediate correction and don't be overly concerned with going full fast, just make the correction immediately and keep the correction coming until you see it on the good side. There's no safety in being low or slow.

 

 

Q: Can you further explain the LSO rules “Always lead a high or fast”?

A: Exactly the opposite of the above. If you're high coming down you don't want to go low, so lead the ball to step it down slowly (distinct stoppage of the ball as it's coming down, called stepping it down) and avoid going low. Lead the power addition to make this happen. Same with being fast, don't overcorrect and go low.

 

 

Q: Can you further explain the LSO rules “If low and slow, fix the low before the slow”?

A: There's even less safety in being low than there is to being slow, so worry about getting up before worrying about your speed, that doesn't mean climb super high, just at least get back to glideslope

 

 

Q: Can you further explain the LSO rules “If high and fast, fix fast before the high”?

A: Increased speed means an increased descent rate to overcome later on. If you try to fix the high first you will be at a lower power setting with an increased descent rate, which means low spool up time and a lot of momentum to overcome. Bad days will follow

[shawnyp420]

I love this thread! ...but I’m still missing something. To make a “lead” maneuver you use the throttle only? Or are we using the stick to “lead” (your throttle movements) by moving the VVI up or down?

[Razor18]

Leading only means stop the process before going to the opposite.

Yes, to "lead a high ball" is you take away some power for the velocity vector to go a bit lower, which makes you (and the ball) start sink a bit, but you need to add power back up BEFORE the ball comes back from "high" to the "on glideslope" position. Otherwise it will overshoot the "on glideslope" position, if you start adding power back up only when it is already in the middle.

Oh... just realized ancient old topic... nevermind...

[andyn]

The rules above sound complex, but they can be summarized "always intercept the glide slope from above".

[ESzczesniak]

On 10/12/2021 at 5:17 AM, andyn said:

The rules above sound complex, but they can be summarized "always intercept the glide slope from above".

Not exactly.  Glideslopes are always to be intercepted from below. Intercepting from above leaves you the risk of descending through and below the glideslope, while behind the power curve…the very situation you’re trying to avoid. 
 

The intent of the rules, and virtually all flying advice, is never be low and slow on approach. 

[Swift.]

5 hours ago, ESzczesniak said:

Not exactly.  Glideslopes are always to be intercepted from below. Intercepting from above leaves you the risk of descending through and below the glideslope, while behind the power curve…the very situation you’re trying to avoid. 
 

The intent of the rules, and virtually all flying advice, is never be low and slow on approach. 

Never lead a low ball literally means don't intercept from below. Taking the power off when low (in order to 'curve' onto GS) would be considered 'intercepting', instead you keep the power in until you are on GS and then correct.

The opposite being feed in the power when you are high coming down so you don't go low.

[ESzczesniak]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:06 AM, Swiftwin9s said:

Never lead a low ball literally means don't intercept from below. Taking the power off when low (in order to 'curve' onto GS) would be considered 'intercepting', instead you keep the power in until you are on GS and then correct.

The opposite being feed in the power when you are high coming down so you don't go low.

Glideslopes are always intercepted from below. All patterns, ILS, etc approaches setup from level flight and then begin a descent towards the runway.  Case I carrier patterns and the basic airport visual pattern start this somewhere on downwind or base, while instrument procedures tend to be more straight in.  There is no normal procedure where you are descending to the glideslope, then reduce your descent rate to establish...which would happen if you're intercepting from above. 

Intercepting the glideslope is a different story than maintaining the glideslope once established.  Once established, what you're saying comes in to play.  Taking power off when low would lead you to go lower.  You would never intercept the glideslope in this configuration. 

[Frederf]

There are different concepts of leading or intercepting, by flight path or speed or power setting or AOA. It's not constrained to the geometric. CV pattern famously requires balancing the throttle with rolling out to avoid ballooning or not keeping desired AOA. In a normal approach you lead with power. If you're low the rule is not to.

[tech_op2000]

I like that there was a 3 year gap in the middle of this thread!