is the tomact any good?

[ViperEagle]

The Six on Six test did indeed show a great range of different targets. At least one was set to simulate a moderate speed bomber, a mach 2 cruise missile, 2 fighters that were manuvering and two more slower speed aircraft/cruise missiles. 5 direct hits and 1 close enough that a proximity detonation would have destroyed it.

 

While no US Aim-54's ever scored a direct-explosion-kill, VF-213's (or it may have been VF-2's) F-14D's did pop off -54's at MAX RANGE at a MiG-25 in 1998. The -25 turned tail and burned ass away, when it landed it either crashed or it's engines were useless as was the airframe damage.

 

Quoting one person involved in the encounter:

"Screw that, a kill is a kill"

 

Almost to a man, the F-14 crews wished the funds were available for both LANTIRN and the AMRAAM. With the Phoenix retired in 2004, that left the Aim-7 as the Tomcats longest stick.

[Viper101]

all i can say without causing a lot of crap on here is that the tomcat was before its time and was a fifth generation fighter which hasnt been noticed yet by Dick Cheney...

[ViperEagle]

It was also from a time when spare parts were plentiful and work-to-flight hours werent a huge concern as the Navy had more than enough people they needed and massive budgets. It's not fair to blame Cheney for it, as it wasnt just him. There was a massive push for a updated Hornet (todays Super Hornet), even when the debates about continued Tomcat production were going on. The fact is, the legacy hornets are easier to work on, as are Super Hornets. And 5th generation? I wouldnt say that. I would say that an updated F-14D+ (F-14E/F?) would have been a Gen. 4.5, but there is only so much you can do with an airframe from 1969/1970. The USAF is facing the same problem with the A and C F-15's.

 

As with everything, the truth is not so simple.

[GGTharos]

The Tomcat was never a 5th gen fighter, nor could it pretend to be; it wasn't even really 4th gen.

[ViperEagle]

Yep.

 

I would argue that the F-14D WAS a 4th Gen aircraft, the F-14A was not, and the F-14B was pushing 4th Gen.

[rogue_blade]

hey u all know the main menu music from zzzspace sound pack is the recording of the radio communication when the 2 f14's engaged the two mig 23's or whatever in either 81 or 89. its so cool to listen to. they fired 3 sparrows i think and the first 2 missed, then they nailed the other with a sidewinder

[SUBS17]

1 . The big for the F-14 will be the movie " Top Gun " ... :)

 

2 . In the real only few victories :

2 x Su-22

2 x Mig-23

1 x Mi-8

 

3. No Air to Air kill using the AIM-54 in real combat.

 

" Any know any other Air to Air victory for the F-14 ... ? "

 

Nope alot of aircraft were downed during the Iran-Iraq war by the F-14 including Mirages and yes the Aim54 was used.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml

[SUBS17]

Are you sure they weren't Black Mig-28's:D

 

They've also beaten Mig29s WVR in mock engagements.

[GGTharos]

So have other aircraft; that doesn't really tell us how good they really were. The only way you can find this out is in the real deal, not a mock engagement.

 

I beat my virtual instructor after all ... when he lets me.

[tflash]

There is no question about the Tomcat. The whole issue is whether you are with Maverick or with Iceman. I'm with Maverick but I must say I think he is dangerous.

[Hellcat61]

No! Iceman is better. It's the way he flies, ice cold, no mistakes. He wears you down, you get bored, frustrated, do something stupid and he's got ya.

[Viper101]

No! Iceman is better. It's the way he flies, ice cold, no mistakes. He wears you down, you get bored, frustrated, do something stupid and he's got ya.

 

LMAO!:lol: :thumbup:

 

....they were abused children" :P

[Aeroscout]

I'd go with maverick's style... but he is dangerous, i'll give you that.

 

One reason there arn't any American Kills with the AIM-54 is because of those darn rules of engagement. (don't fire untill fired upon) by the time the enemy is in range to fire at you, you are already in range for your sparrows.

[SUBS17]

The Tomcat was never a 5th gen fighter, nor could it pretend to be; it wasn't even really 4th gen.

 

Its not that much older than the F-16, F/A-18 or F-15.

[SUBS17]

It does. do you know of any other incidents similar to this durring the cold war?

 

Most of the time they used to fly wingtip to wingtip and just exchange pictures etc. Maybe some of those collisions were from pilots trying to get a closer look at the western playboy centrefolds which were not allowed in communist countries.:D

[EricJ]

That's what makes the Tomcat good, it's just beautiful in the right light :thumbup:

 

http://tomcatalley.com/images/f14d/vf2/f14d2fo.htm

[Anytime]

What ever happened to train the way you fight.

 

It's about how the weapon is deployed, acka crews in the pit, tactics, doctrine and soon .. how good the software is :) )

 

So have other aircraft; that doesn't really tell us how good they really were. The only way you can find this out is in the real deal, not a mock engagement.

 

I beat my virtual instructor after all ... when he lets me.

[pschelchshorn]

What ever happened to train the way you fight.

 

It's about how the weapon is deployed, acka crews in the pit, tactics, doctrine and soon .. how good the software is :) )

 

yeah and its just a simple but true fact that the western aircrews have better training.

 

Flip

[GGTharos]

And the Germans were slackers?

 

In training/practice you have some goals to achieve, and those goals are not 'see who's the best'.

[Aeroscout]

That's what makes the Tomcat good, it's just beautiful in the right light :thumbup:

 

http://tomcatalley.com/images/f14d/vf2/f14d2fo.htm

Holy Crap! that fpund it's way to my desk top. NICE PIC!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

[Frostie]

And the Germans were slackers?

 

I think Germans are westerners, obviously during a period of time(half century) half were Eastern Bloc.

[Aeroscout]

And the Germans were slackers?

 

I don't quite get what you mean by that.

[rogue_blade]

Holy Crap! that fpund it's way to my desk top. NICE PIC!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

 

haha straight onto my desktop too

[ViperEagle]

I'd go with maverick's style... but he is dangerous, i'll give you that.

 

One reason there arn't any American Kills with the AIM-54 is because of those darn rules of engagement. (don't fire untill fired upon) by the time the enemy is in range to fire at you, you are already in range for your sparrows.

 

If you ask me, the ROE's with Libya were just fine. The Tomcat crews fired when they felt they were in danger of being fired upon. Warning Yellow, Weapons hold does NOT mean "do not fire until fired upon" it means "you MUST fire if you feel you are going to be attacked"

 

Also, the AIM-54 wasnt meant as a fighter killer, but meant to be shot at targets the size of a TU-95. Now, the Iranians did obtain fighter kills, as did the US against manuvering drones and targets, but it wasnt ideal for it at all.

 

The Tomcat is indeed only slightly younger than the Eagle, but enough to make a difference. Tomcats entered squadron service in 1973 (Flying Top-cover for Frequent Wind, the evacuation of Saigon which TECHNICALLY makes the Tomcat a vietnam /veteran/era airframe) with Fighter squadrons 1 and 2 (Wolfpack and Bounty Hunters) and were still gaining strength up until 1988 or so. F-15's entered squadron service in 1975 (IIRC) and were still expanding up until the late 80's.

 

F-16's went on-line in 1978 or 79 (IIRC) and the F/A-18's in 1983.

[ViperEagle]

They also werent configured for a max-range engagement. IIRC, the 1989 Tomcats didnt launch with a full load, which would have likely been 4X Sparrow and 4X Sidewinder.

 

Even 2 Aim-54's was a massive weight and drag penalty.