Base / final carrier turn at 30deg too wide.

[Nealius]

Just for clarity, pulling G that's 1% of my current airspeed while relaxing G to keep up with the changes in airspeed still puts me at 0.8-0.9nm abeam. Example throughout the break turn:

 

350kts - 3.5G

330kts - 3.3G

300kts - 3.0G

270kts - 2.7G

250kts - 2.5G

Gear down Flaps down

Downwind 0.8-0.9nm abeam

 

For whatever reason, it doesn't yield the 1.2-1.3nm abeam that it should.

[Brun]

If I fly the above I only get through about 120 degrees of the turn before reaching 250kts. After gear and flaps down I relax the roll to increase the radius of the turn and enter downwind with the correct separation.

[Andryl]

This is a good point that hasn’t been mentioned as far as I remember in this post.

Watch this guy doing his carrier qualifications and on one pass he extends to over 4Nm and has plenty of time to get onspeed at 600 ft.

 

 

 

Very interesting video: thanks for sharing it!

 

 

Just a couple of noobish questions:

 

- what's that "W" mark flashing in the HUD during the final turn?

- How can you put the TCN distance on the HUD? Even if I correctly set the Tacan, it never appears on my HUD.

 

 

Thanks

[toma19]

Very interesting video: thanks for sharing it!

 

 

Just a couple of noobish questions:

 

- what's that "W" mark flashing in the HUD during the final turn?

- How can you put the TCN distance on the HUD? Even if I correctly set the Tacan, it never appears on my HUD.

 

 

Thanks

For the tacan distance to appear in the Hud, you have to select TCN on the HSI page, it's located on the upper left corner of the screen

[Brun]

Just a couple of noobish questions:

 

- what's that "W" mark flashing in the HUD during the final turn?

- How can you put the TCN distance on the HUD? Even if I correctly set the Tacan, it never appears on my HUD.

What time does this 'w' appear? I had a quick look but can't see it.

 

Pressing the TCN button on the HSI DDI page should do it. Top button on the left hand side.

[Andryl]

What time does this 'w' appear? I had a quick look but can't see it.

 

 

For example at min 1:02 and 4:48 of the video. A big "W" flashing in the middle of the HUD

 

 

Pressing the TCN button on the HSI DDI page should do it. Top button on the left hand side.

 

 

Strange... I'm sure I pressed it (it was boxed) but it didn't appear on the HUD. I'll try again this evening, thanks.

[danny875]

I’m fairly new myself on the hornet so I’m not sure but it seems to be at low speed high angle of attack and /or sink rate? I’ll have to watch it again.

[danny875]

If it’s boxed then it should show up but in my case I’m also having difficulties in getting the tacan working correctly. Could be mission related.

[danny875]

Just to say that I’ve watched the video again and the large flashing W seems to be the radar altimeter warning at 375ft. It does it every time.

Edited June 27, 2018 by danny875
Radar not radio

[Sparky1b09]

I relax my turn a bit when approaching the downwind so as to hit 1.2 when abeam. That's not my problem. I did some analysis last night and my biggest issue is that by the time I've stabilised at 600ft, 140-ish kts and on speed AOA, I'm way past the boat, or i turn at the round-down, before i'm stable and end up in a climb going too fast and overshoot.

 

I'm going to give myself another 2 miles on the downwind to get prepped for the base turn. I need to find a good throttle/engine RPM ballpark for 130kts-140kts wheels&flaps down.

 

I had that same problem. I decided to do some straight line flying while in landing configuration ( full flaps, gear down, hook down) and see what it too took to get trimmed out properly. After many tests I found that holding my trim hat up and counting to 25 fairly quickly, which takes approximately 12 seconds, trims me pretty close to where I need to be. So I do this as soon as I begin my break and by the time I get into the downwind all I need to do is bump the trim up or down a time or two to fine tune it. That gives me time to make sure my altitude and carrier distance is correct before I'm in position to start the 180. Doing this has me pretty well trimmed out before I level out into the downwind and makes the rest of the pattern process a lot easier to manage.

[Talonx1]

With full flaps and gear down it should only take 2-3 seconds of holding the trim hat to reach proper on speed aoa trim. Trim responds differently depending on configuration. With flaps and gear down 12 seconds would be more than enough time to completely max out trim.

[Sparky1b09]

I don't doubt anything you are saying but all I can say is that it works almost perfectly for me.

[Talonx1]

Just for clarity, pulling G that's 1% of my current airspeed while relaxing G to keep up with the changes in airspeed still puts me at 0.8-0.9nm abeam. Example throughout the break turn:

 

350kts - 3.5G

330kts - 3.3G

300kts - 3.0G

270kts - 2.7G

250kts - 2.5G

Gear down Flaps down

Downwind 0.8-0.9nm abeam

 

For whatever reason, it doesn't yield the 1.2-1.3nm abeam that it should.

 

When I pass the boat at 350 kts and 800 ft I extend out to 1-1.5 nm. I then cut throttle to idle, deploy speed brake and gently roll into a 2 g turn. I keep the brake out till 300 kts then pull it in and wait for 250kts to deploy full flaps and gear. Once gear and flaps are down it takes 2-3 seconds of pitch trim (while still in the turn) and I end up wings level around @ 150-160 knots, 1.1-1.3 nm from boat on the beam and roughly trimmed up for on speed aoa. Then its just a matter of making minor trim adjustments and flying thrust for altitude till the final turn. Once trimmed for on speed aoa you really shouldnt be using stick for pitch at all. It will massively exaggerate effects on your aoa.

 

Highly recommend turning on the control input display so you can see your trim adjustments, how fast its adjusting and roughly where it needs to be for on speed aoa flight. You can also throw your fcs display up on a ddi and watch your stab trim numbers if you want more realism.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Talonx1

[Talonx1]

I don't doubt anything you are saying but all I can say is that it works almost perfectly for me.

 

Holding trim hat for 12 seconds just makes no sense if flaps are at full and gear is down. If it takes that long something is wrong. Most likely flaps arent set to full.

[Sparky1b09]

Holding trim hat for 12 seconds just makes no sense if flaps are at full and gear is down. If it takes that long something is wrong. Most likely flaps arent set to full.

 

Flaps are full and gear is down. You can tell me how wrong I am all you want but when you’re done talking it still works for me.

[Talonx1]

Flaps are full and gear is down. You can tell me how wrong I am all you want but when you’re done talking it still works for me.

 

Above you say that you are starting to hold trim as soon as you start your break. Is that correct? If so what speed are you starting your break? If youre at 350kts as typically prescribed then you cant possible be gear down and full flaps when you start applying trim as the gear and flaps wont drop till 250. No need to get defensive either. Just trying to help.

[Sparky1b09]

Above you say that you are starting to hold trim as soon as you start your break. Is that correct? If so what speed are you starting your break? If youre at 350kts as typically prescribed then you cant possible be gear down and full flaps when you start applying trim as the gear and flaps wont drop till 250. No need to get defensive either. Just trying to help.

 

Thanks, but if you reread my posts you will see that I wasn’t asking for help.

[Talonx1]

Thanks, but if you reread my posts you will see that I wasn’t asking for help.

 

Let me rephrase that “trying to help the original poster,” which includes making sure he/she has accurate information.

[coolts]

Highly recommend turning on the control input display so you can see your trim adjustments, how fast its adjusting and roughly where it needs to be for on speed aoa flight. You can also throw your fcs display up on a ddi and watch your stab trim numbers if you want more realism.

 

 

That's a great idea. I didn't know trim was shown on the controls indicator OR the FCS page, (doh, takeoff trim is!). Turns out I've been trimming wrong, hitting up-up-up-up-up-up rather than just holding it up.

[danny875]

That's a great idea. I didn't know trim was shown on the controls indicator OR the FCS page, (doh, takeoff trim is!). Turns out I've been trimming wrong, hitting up-up-up-up-up-up rather than just holding it up.

 

Well that’s what I do, about 10-12 clicks up as I’m approaching down wind to get a reasonable aoa (still a little fast) then nudge it into the bracket after that.

I haven’t actually tried holding the trim down. I’ll try that tonight cheers

[coolts]

Aye, some switches are meant to be held down and some you can hold down all day and they only produce one virtual key-press

[mjolner]

I had that same problem. I decided to do some straight line flying while in landing configuration ( full flaps, gear down, hook down) and see what it too took to get trimmed out properly. After many tests I found that holding my trim hat up and counting to 25 fairly quickly, which takes approximately 12 seconds, trims me pretty close to where I need to be. So I do this as soon as I begin my break and by the time I get into the downwind all I need to do is bump the trim up or down a time or two to fine tune it. That gives me time to make sure my altitude and carrier distance is correct before I'm in position to start the 180. Doing this has me pretty well trimmed out before I level out into the downwind and makes the rest of the pattern process a lot easier to manage.

 

Have you used the control input display to actually see the trim position after holding for 25 seconds with full flaps and gear?

[Nealius]

25 seconds sounds like a loooooooong time. If I'm doing an overhead approach I usually only need about 2 seconds of trim on the downwind and I'm golden.

[blkspade]

Why are you guys guessing at trim? Between 8-11 degrees nose up, which you can see in both the FCS page or checklist page.

[Nealius]

I'm not guessing at trim, I simply apply trim until I can take my hand off the stick. I'm only estimating the time it takes me to achieve that.