Jump to content

EM charts?


TBear
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just fly the plane...thats what my dad, 30k flight hours would say. Charts are for the guys on the ground...lol Google the NATOPS flight manual, what you're looking for is prob in there.

I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with U...

But also, during my squadron exchanges at Cherry Point, my instructor used to say " know your enemy, and know your strength and his weaknesses"..and those charts resulted very usefull during various "flags" and other trainings I had chance to attend :smilewink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just fly the plane...thats what my dad, 30k flight hours would say. Charts are for the guys on the ground...lol Google the NATOPS flight manual, what you're looking for is prob in there.

 

Yup

 

I dont think there is a need for Eagle dynamics to make thier own for the Community

 

 

There are F/A18A/B/C/D NFM performance charts Out there.

 

 

That being said IN ever more Modern air combat EM are becoming less and less relevant. Lest i bring up David Berke Video, on how from a pilots perspective Information and various Sensors are far more vital Especially more so in the 5th generation of aircraft.


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

Build:

 

 

 

 

 

Windows 10 64 bit,

 

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z370- E Motherboard, Intel Core i7 8700k ( Noctua NH14S cooler),Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 32gb ram (2666 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia Gtx 1080 8gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; WD 1TB HDD, Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ITs all in F/A18 NATOPS manual.

 

 

Not really .. the NATOPS manual has very little on performance, sensors and weapons procedures ... its mostly about flying the aircraft.

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point is, fly the plane and learn it, charts are crap and the worst pilots rely on them over practical experience. They're the ones that have the deer in the headlights look when the plane does something that the charts say it shouldn't.

I9 9900k @ 5ghz water cooled, 32gb ram, GTX 2080ti, 1tb M.2, 2tb hdd, 1000 watt psu TrackIR 5, TM Warthog Stick and Throttle, CH Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point is, fly the plane and learn it, charts are crap and the worst pilots rely on them over practical experience. They're the ones that have the deer in the headlights look when the plane does something that the charts say it shouldn't.

 

Worst piece of advice I read in a long time :doh:

It’s like if I said “take of performance computation is useless, load the plane, slam the throttle and here we go”

 

The point of these charts is to compare with adversaries to get a sense of what are your strong points and his weaknesses and try to avoid bad surprises. It’s one tool amongst others.

It isn’t meant to be the end of practical experience...

 

And no, there isn’t any NATOPS manual with the requested chart available yet.

You would have to build yours on DCS...


Edited by jojo

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S

M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is pretty generic. Unclass since no specific weight or Config details are stated Its for an FA18A. Source of the chart is an old USN VFA125 Pilot Training manual (circa 1984).

 

Though FA18A 50% fuel 2 x AIM9 +guns Full AB would have a Ps=0 close to the -400 Ps line on this chart :)

 

 

 

 

Fan18.jpg


Edited by IvanK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point is, fly the plane and learn it, charts are crap and the worst pilots rely on them over practical experience. They're the ones that have the deer in the headlights look when the plane does something that the charts say it shouldn't.

 

If you want to fly your simulator this way go right ahead. It's entertainment software after all and you have infinite do-overs.

But, and I mean this in all sincerity, I hope I'm never on a commercial flight that you're piloting, if that's what you do. Of course fly the damn plane, but the very foundation of that, before you ever crank an engine, is doing the charts. If what you said is your actual philosophical approach to piloting real world aircraft then you are a dangerous and irresponsible individual.

i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks IvanK :thumbup::thumbup: Its good start :smilewink:

 

I asked those, because its a good tool to understand what to and not to do with your plane against a different one.

 

The "modern" WVR combat is based on the theories developed by JHON BOYD about Energy Management in aerial combat. Consider that the designs of F-16, F-18 and also F-35 are based on His theories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to fly your simulator this way go right ahead. It's entertainment software after all and you have infinite do-overs.

But, and I mean this in all sincerity, I hope I'm never on a commercial flight that you're piloting, if that's what you do. Of course fly the damn plane, but the very foundation of that, before you ever crank an engine, is doing the charts. If what you said is your actual philosophical approach to piloting real world aircraft then you are a dangerous and irresponsible individual.

 

 

Gotta love comments like these. If you don't understand what he means, I hope, and I say this in all sincerity, that you will never fly an actual airplane with anyone else on board.

Do you honestly think a professional pilot doesn't know how to do things "by the book" ?... geeeeeeeezuuss people on the internet are dense sometimes.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta love comments like these. If you don't understand what he means, I hope, and I say this in all sincerity, that you will never fly an actual airplane with anyone else on board.

Do you honestly think a professional pilot doesn't know how to do things "by the book" ?... geeeeeeeezuuss people on the internet are dense sometimes.

yeah

you know who are the sorts of pilots who get cut from flying combat? the ones that only know the book. remember how sully sullenberger didn't follow the manual prescribed procedure performing the miracle on the hudson? there's more to understanding what you're doing than just the book.

The "modern" WVR combat is based on the theories developed by JHON BOYD about Energy Management in aerial combat. Consider that the designs of F-16, F-18 and also F-35 are based on His theories.

urban legend

john boyd didnt invent anything. the air force just got him to write down what all fighterpilots already understood in a manner that impressed the beancounters in washington, who were incapable of thinking beyond numbers.

Interestingly Critic John Boyd, whose energy maneuverability charts had helped sell the F-15 to OSD, tried to hamstring the F-15�s performance by limiting it to 51/2 Gs because that was the speed at which his energy maneuverability charts said the F-15 was most efficient.
boyd himself just never quite "got it". his first few attempts at writing an e-m theory were deemed failures, that should tell you how backwards-engineered the whole thing is.

also, real funny you name the f-35 -- considering boyd's apostle pierre sprey constantly uses e-m to paint it as poorly designed.


Edited by probad

МИР

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Worst piece of advice I read in a long time :doh:

It’s like if I said “take of performance computation is useless, load the plane, slam the throttle and here we go”

 

 

 

 

Worst misunderstanding of advice I've seen in a long time.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you honestly think a professional pilot doesn't know how to do things "by the book" ?... geeeeeeeezuuss people on the internet are dense sometimes.

 

Sure @quincedence had a go, but knowing how and applying that knowledge are two different things. Those are some pretty cavalier comments that would at least earn a side-eye if said in conversation with other irl pilots, if not outright rebuke. It’s not like my grandpa checked the weight and balance, takeoff distance, climb performance, etc, etc, on his Piper every time we went up from his home airfield, but he also didn’t express disdain at their existence. And the charts for that little Piper were faithfully checked if we loaded baggage, went on cross country’s or to unfamiliar airports. Point is charts aren’t crap, they’re an very important tool in aviation and if I were that guys employer I’d have some very legitimate concerns about his attitude if not his procedures.

ASUS Maximus Hero IX with i7 7700K OC’d to 4.8Ghz. EVGA 1080 ti. RAM 32GB DDR4. Old Samsung 1080p TV, hopefully VR soon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha, priceless. You guys just read the word "crap", and make no effort to understand what he actually meant. Sure it is a "harsh" word and sounds dismissive, but is that actually the primary thing you extract from the advice given?

 

Like I said, the dude is a pro, there should be no doubt that he is all kinds of capable reading and correctly applying all kinds of charts. What he is saying is this: If you rely on your books and charts too much, and don't develope a "feel for the aircraft", you will sooner or later end up in a situation that you cannot handle. I mean, all of us can go to youtube and watch the "Jetstream" series (I know, it's television, still the message rings true) in it's entirety, check out those nuggets and how they struggle with BFM, none of them had a problem with academics, but some of them had trouble fighting in the F18 because it just didn't "click".

If you fight only by the book, someone who didn't stop his learning process there will have a field day against you.


Edited by kobeshow

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds dismissive because it is dismissive. OP asks for performance charts to help learn the plane and the response is:

 

Just fly the plane...thats what my dad, 30k flight hours would say. Charts are for the guys on the ground...

 

Thats not an ambiguous statement. It dismissed the OP’s request for EM charts as unnecessary. He then doubles down with:

 

The point is, fly the plane and learn it, charts are crap and the worst pilots rely on them over practical experience.

 

The problem isn’t in the context of this simulator, but that he seems to be giving this as real world applicable advice. To put it kindly this is wrongheaded. You don’t just fly the plane or just learn the books. You do both. Which is, I assume, why the OP wanted the charts.

 

Like I said, the dude is a pro, there should be no doubt that he is all kinds of capable reading and correctly applying all kinds of charts.

 

It’s his statements that have introduced exactly that doubt.

ASUS Maximus Hero IX with i7 7700K OC’d to 4.8Ghz. EVGA 1080 ti. RAM 32GB DDR4. Old Samsung 1080p TV, hopefully VR soon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...