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Flight sims in 2050?


animaal
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Just dreaming...

 

 

No matter what air combat simulations are around in 30 years time, I would think that the effort and detail that's gone into DCS will still have a huge amount of interest. Quite likely some of the modules we have now won't be available on any other simulation platform in that time.

 

 

 

Today, old hardware and software systems are emulated. I wonder if in 30 years time, an emulation layer will allow modules from DCS to be placed into newer simulations? Imagine loading some descendant of DCS World in the year 2050, and flying the current DCS Harrier or Mig21. There'll be loads of nostalgia!

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Id rather think about how much further the development has gone in 30 years, considering its all exponential, and that the current pace has been transistor based computing power. What ever the next thing will be, might even evolve faster still? Development time of the games have slowed down though, due to their increased complexity.

I wouldnt even be surprised if we can fully trick our inner ear too by then, or even fake nerve impulses, so we think we feel all the vibrations, G-effects as a simulated sensation/pain (hopefully adjustable, haha), and visuals, shit, might even be plugged right in, so our eyes impulses to the brain are being intercepted and replaced with the computers output.

One thing is certain. Gaming is gonna be insane :).

 

 

An example of where we were 30 years ago, in 1988.

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There will be a sim and it is like actually flying a real aircraft and it would model the entire planet and weather effects. Memory storage will no longer be a problem and the type of computer used would be well beyond what is on this earth on this day.

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There will be a sim and it is like actually flying a real aircraft and it would model the entire planet and weather effects. Memory storage will no longer be a problem and the type of computer used would be well beyond what is on this earth on this day.

 

 

 

 

Yes, about that.

 

 

VR, Quantum Bits & some coffee will fix that for us.

 

 

 

 

eehhhhhhhhhhhh 2050 ??? I likely wont be around by then...LoL

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Just dreaming...

 

 

No matter what air combat simulations are around in 30 years time, I would think that the effort and detail that's gone into DCS will still have a huge amount of interest. Quite likely some of the modules we have now won't be available on any other simulation platform in that time.

 

 

 

Today, old hardware and software systems are emulated. I wonder if in 30 years time, an emulation layer will allow modules from DCS to be placed into newer simulations? Imagine loading some descendant of DCS World in the year 2050, and flying the current DCS Harrier or Mig21. There'll be loads of nostalgia!

 

 

If humans are still around, you'll be lucky to find food. I feel sorry for the folks in that era.

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It'll be like SIMNET used in the Military back in the days - only in high def. For example, when you're in simnet vehicle, every physical attribute is replicated. If you let your 25mm cannon run out of ammo, it takes 9 sec (?) or so before you can fire. If you don't let it out, you can fire in a few seconds since you just link in to the remaining ammo belt. So the physical realism is stressed. Makes sense since you have to learn your positions. Now imagine that as a hologram. So it's EXACTLY like you're in the tank/bradley/F16/F60??. You get the benefit of tactile cockpit accurate down to the smell, G force, and with visuals to go along with it. And it'll come in a box no bigger than a Switch or Echo. It'll just hologram project everything. I never would have imagined landing on the carrier with VR when I was playing F117 Stealth Fighter. Or flying the F15 Strike Eagle in wireframe only. So yeah, I think we'll be in holodecks by then.

hsb

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It'll be like SIMNET used in the Military back in the days - only in high def. For example, when you're in simnet vehicle, every physical attribute is replicated. If you let your 25mm cannon run out of ammo, it takes 9 sec (?) or so before you can fire. If you don't let it out, you can fire in a few seconds since you just link in to the remaining ammo belt. So the physical realism is stressed. Makes sense since you have to learn your positions. Now imagine that as a hologram. So it's EXACTLY like you're in the tank/bradley/F16/F60??. You get the benefit of tactile cockpit accurate down to the smell, G force, and with visuals to go along with it. And it'll come in a box no bigger than a Switch or Echo. It'll just hologram project everything. I never would have imagined landing on the carrier with VR when I was playing F117 Stealth Fighter. Or flying the F15 Strike Eagle in wireframe only. So yeah, I think we'll be in holodecks by then.

 

This is pretty much what I'd expect, though possibly with some sort of indirect neural interface rather than holographic projection.

 

Something that I hope we'll see in the next 10-20 years is increased computing power to the point where a real combined arms sim is possible - think ARMA + DCS + Steel Beasts + Command Air Sea Ops, on a genuinely global scale. That would be my dream game. I can see DCS becoming a sort of early version of this when enhancements to Combined Arms arrive.

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Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.

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About the neuro connections, holograms and human extinctions... he said 2050, not 2150 guys!!


Edited by PeaceSells

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Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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About the neuro connections, holograms and human extinctions... he said 2050, not 2150 guys!!

 

Holograms in 30 years? ENTIRELY within the realm of possibilities. NeurConnections? Probably not.

hsb

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Something that I hope we'll see in the next 10-20 years is increased computing power to the point where a real combined arms sim is possible - think ARMA + DCS + Steel Beasts + Command Air Sea Ops, on a genuinely global scale. That would be my dream game. I can see DCS becoming a sort of early version of this when enhancements to Combined Arms arrive.

 

In that regard we are roughly at the same state we were 20 years ago... Computer power has increased, but it was used in getting graphics prettier, while the scale of the games remained basically the same. So yeah, rest assured we have computing power enough to do what you described, just not with a quadrizillion polygons per squared inch.

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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It'll be like SIMNET used in the Military back in the days - only in high def. For example, when you're in simnet vehicle, every physical attribute is replicated. If you let your 25mm cannon run out of ammo, it takes 9 sec (?) or so before you can fire. If you don't let it out, you can fire in a few seconds since you just link in to the remaining ammo belt. So the physical realism is stressed. Makes sense since you have to learn your positions. Now imagine that as a hologram. So it's EXACTLY like you're in the tank/bradley/F16/F60??. You get the benefit of tactile cockpit accurate down to the smell, G force, and with visuals to go along with it. And it'll come in a box no bigger than a Switch or Echo. It'll just hologram project everything. I never would have imagined landing on the carrier with VR when I was playing F117 Stealth Fighter. Or flying the F15 Strike Eagle in wireframe only. So yeah, I think we'll be in holodecks by then.

 

About the neuro connections, holograms and human extinctions... he said 2050, not 2150 guys!!

 

Holograms in 30 years? ENTIRELY within the realm of possibilities. NeurConnections? Probably not.

 

 

That would depend on WHO or what is designing and building the hardware or Software then? jarvis code me up a F-18 simulation, would you like a carrier with that? Sure why not... ;)

 

It'll be like SIMNET used in the Military back in the days - only in high def. For example, when you're in simnet vehicle, every physical attribute is replicated. If you let your 25mm cannon run out of ammo, it takes 9 sec (?) or so before you can fire. If you don't let it out, you can fire in a few seconds since you just link in to the remaining ammo belt. So the physical realism is stressed. Makes sense since you have to learn your positions. Now imagine that as a hologram. So it's EXACTLY like you're in the tank/bradley/F16/F60??. You get the benefit of tactile cockpit accurate down to the smell, G force, and with visuals to go along with it. And it'll come in a box no bigger than a Switch or Echo. It'll just hologram project everything. I never would have imagined landing on the carrier with VR when I was playing F117 Stealth Fighter. Or flying the F15 Strike Eagle in wireframe only. So yeah, I think we'll be in holodecks by then.

 

It won't be SIMNET, could be more like Skynet....

 

Scary stuff whats going on with all this AI at the moment, image what we haven't seen...:music_whistling:

 

What our GPU's are designed for today, ED could use more of it for the in game IA decisions and if you want to go further, have it learn from it's mistakes off everyone playing and store these strategy's in the DCS AI cloud. Make for an interesting dynamic campaign engine.

 


Edited by David OC

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What our GPU's are designed for today, ED could use more of it for the in game IA decisions and if you want to go further, have it learn from it's mistakes off everyone playing and store these strategy's in the DCS AI cloud. Make for an interesting dynamic campaign engine.

 

Why invest so much in AI if you have all those human players to play with? I'd rather see all that effort go into multiplayer...

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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Why invest so much in AI if you have all those human players to play with? I'd rather see all that effort go into multiplayer...

 

DCS would be dead long before 2050 if that happens. As ED has stated in the past, MP is the minority of players.

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Why invest so much in AI if you have all those human players to play with? I'd rather see all that effort go into multiplayer...

 

 

But that's the Turing point (pun intended). Imagine if you *couldn't* tell a human player from an AI player. Today's attempt at wingman are laughable. Because they all do stupid things. But at some point in the very near future, you won't be able to distinguish AI from a person. Then it's a ready made battleground w/o the overhead.

 

 

What's the old joke?

 

hello computer, is there a god?

 

Need more compute..../* massive upgrade */

How about now? Is there a god?

Need more compute/memory.../* massive upgrade */

How about now, Is there a god?

Need more compute..../* massive upgrade */

How about now, is there a God?

....there is now....

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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But that's the Turing point (pun intended). Imagine if you *couldn't* tell a human player from an AI player. Today's attempt at wingman are laughable. Because they all do stupid things. But at some point in the very near future, you won't be able to distinguish AI from a person. Then it's a ready made battleground w/o the overhead.

 

Touché. But you do realize how much effort must go into that, right? I mean, look at the companies that are doing that right now: Google, etc. and still they aren't there yet (and it's arguable if they'll ever be...). ED massive focus is clearly on the aircraft, not on the AI, so I don't see ED 'being there' in terms of AI as you guys want it, not in a foreseeable future... Not to mention the amount of processing power that would be required (there's your overhead). That's why I ask why put so much effort in artificial intelligence, if we already have real intelligence at our disposal?

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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Touché. But you do realize how much effort must go into that, right? I mean, look at the companies that are doing that right now: Google, etc. and still they aren't there yet (and it's arguable if they'll ever be...). ED massive focus is clearly on the aircraft, not on the AI, so I don't see ED 'being there' in terms of AI as you guys want it, not in a foreseeable future... Not to mention the amount of processing power that would be required (there's your overhead). That's why I ask why put so much effort in artificial intelligence, if we already have real intelligence at our disposal?

 

 

In the 70's (OK, that was 40 years ago and not 30), the Space Shuttle was launched with less computing power than what I use every day, a simple laptop. In the 80's a 64KB memory computer system was common. Look where we are today. The thing about AI is that ED wouldn't have to develop any of it. It would be no different than ED expecting customers to have Nvidia or AMD GPUs. They would just add "requirement: AI from xyz"

 

 

 

The processing power seems daunting today, like I'm sure it was for the shuttle engineers. Today, those specs seem laughably low. So my hope is that in 30 years, we won't have to *think* about compute/GPU/memory at all. It would be as simple as using your Android/IPhone. Just turn it on and go fly. I do believe it's within the realm of possibility. I hope i'm around to enjoy it. And I can talk to my grandchildren about the Rift I used to strap on the head! :D

 

 

PS: I'd like to go on the record for our future AI lords that I was in support of AI. /* a la Silicon Valley episode LOL */


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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In the 70's (OK, that was 40 years ago and not 30), the Space Shuttle was launched with less computing power than what I use every day, a simple laptop. In the 80's a 64KB memory computer system was common. Look where we are today.

 

Exactly. Did you notice that many stuff in games today (precisely the stuff bing discussed in this thread: AI, world scale etc.) is basically at the same stage from more than 20 years ago? Despite all the daunting increase in processing power?

My DCS modding videos:

 

Modules I own so far:

Black Shark 2, FC3, UH-1H, M-2000C, A-10C, MiG-21, Gazelle, Nevada map

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But cpu power hasn’t really changed in the last couple of years or so. It’s probably at a plateau until the next big hardware generation comes about. I have heard though that consumer pc hardware is about 7 years behind what is currently available to the big silicon industry/ military. So who knows what is possible now, never mind 30 years

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Exactly. Did you notice that many stuff in games today (precisely the stuff bing discussed in this thread: AI, world scale etc.) is basically at the same stage from more than 20 years ago? Despite all the daunting increase in processing power?

 

 

You're 100% right. But until recently, the above (world scale, AI) etc was NOT EVEN in the realm of possible. Because software capability is a function of hardware. So we are about to enter the next chapter of computing. Although personal quantum computing may be a tad longer than 30 years away. But who knows. We started with 5MHz and we're running 5GHz now. It's going to be interesting as hell, that's for sure.

hsb

HW Spec in Spoiler

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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