Virpil Throttle Advice please...

[some1]

No, I own what's in my sig. And had enough hardware in the past to know the difference.

[MustangSally]

No, I own what's in my sig. And had enough hardware in the past to know the difference.

 

 

Really!!!!

[some1]

...?

[Karon]

...?

Don't bother with him mate, he's always behaved in a weird way.. :huh:

 

 

Anyway, sorry for being late to the discussion, a was abroad. I didn't think twice about the 5-way hat on the VTr (shorter for Virpil T-50 Mongoos Throttle, that's a hell of a long name LOL): instabought. I actually wouldn't bought it if it had a microstick. I had a CH Pro Throttle for ~15+ years, now a TWCS and I have tried for a few hours the TM Tog Throttle. I haven't found any microstick that was really worth it: none of them last longer than a normal hat or gave me a particularly remarkable experience. The CH was quite good but last for only 3-4 years then mechanically died. The TWCS is rubbish, I need a massive deadzone in order to make it work (basically killing the purpose of an analog microstick) and the same with the TM Hot Throttle (although again, that throttle wasn't either mine or new). I'd rather have a good, reliable, 4/5 way hat then a flawed microstick.

 

That being said, the feeling on the VTr 5-way hat is different than what you may expect: the movement is very wide hence not particularly responsive but that means that you don't accidentally mess the cursor / TDC / whatever when pushing it. I haven't tried it much (my T-50 base is on its way back from Virpil support finally, I'll do a review of the complete Virpil T-50 HOTAS when it's here) but I like it.

[MustangSally]

Don't bother with him mate, he's always behaved in a weird way.. :huh:

 

 

Please enlighten me on how I have behaved weirdly???

 

 

Sorry but if you don't own the hardware then an opinion on how it feels or operates is as far as I'm concerned invalid.

Edited August 31, 2018 by MustangSally

[some1]

Sorry but if you don't own the hardware then an opinion on how it feels or operates is as far as I'm concerned invalid.

 

Great reasoning. With your logic, any answer to OP question is invalid, since no one has ever seen a Virpil Throttle with ministick :doh:

 

No matter how much metal, ball bearings and magnetic sensors Virpil puts in their product, the functional difference remains the same: HAT sends only binary signal, MOVE or STOP. Ministick sends signal proportional to deflection, so some sort of control over cursor speed is possible.

[MustangSally]

We'll just have to agree to disagree...I'll make up my own mind once mine arrives.

Edited August 31, 2018 by MustangSally

[Karon]

I have the throttle, feel free to ask any question.

 

 

Please enlighten me on how I have behaved weirdly???

Such as when we talking about the fact that Virpil's website was wrong about the mounting plate and you said you don't need the plate because you have a simpit. Like, hell, why do you aswer in the first place (also, who cares)?

[mdee]

No one here said that you need 32 bit resolution for a ministick, where did you get that from?

Even 2 bit resolution (four steps) would be enough to make a difference, the main point of a ministick is not a surgical precision, but the ability to switch between several cursor movement speeds. If a contact pops up on the opposite end of the radar screen to where your TDC is located at the moment, you don't have to spend several seconds waiting for the cursor to get there, just push the ministick further, the cursor will accelerate and reach the target much faster than with regular HAT. It's even more prominent when trying to control targeting pod, since it covers a wide field of view.

 

If it was just personal preference, it wouldn't be installed in every combat aircraft. But whatever, it seems to me that you really work hard to justify your purchase of 200+€ throttle without a ministick. At least you've convinced yourself, good for you :music_whistling:

 

It's not that a regular HAT is unusable, but in such expensive piece of hardware, there should be something better. Unless you don't plan to fly any modern aircraft.

 

You can program it for different speeds and acceleration. It's not an expensive piece of hardware (for me) btw. If I get bored of it I'll buy another if there is a new one on the market - if there is an updated version, I'll have it as soon as it's available too, because I think it's a well made toy and I can't really be bothered by some petty details unless I decide to build a simpit, maybe one day when I have more time. As far as DCS game requires it, it works extremely well and it's a fun to use, ministick or not. If someone is absolutely sure that ministick is required, this device is not for that person. Otherwise, give it a try, the functional difference in game is close to zero.

Edited August 31, 2018 by mdee

[MustangSally]

I have the throttle, feel free to ask any question.

 

 

 

Such as when we talking about the fact that Virpil's website was wrong about the mounting plate and you said you don't need the plate because you have a simpit. Like, hell, why do you aswer in the first place (also, who cares)?

 

Geez mate, got your knickers in a knot over a single post!!! Looking back I probably misread what I was replying to. Take a chill pill and move on.

[Ayindi]

In DCS you can map up to 128 DX buttons, in IL-2 Great Battles up to 64.

 

But is the Throttle able to "provide" more than 64 DX buttons? If I interprete the Software correctly it can "only" send 64 different DX buttons, but not more?

[Karon]

But is the Throttle able to "provide" more than 64 DX buttons? If I interprete the Software correctly it can "only" send 64 different DX buttons, but not more?

HID is up to 128 IIRC. VpThrottle by default has 81 buttons.

 

This is a quick test I did when it has been delivered.

[drmorrish]

Karon,

 

Thanks for the vid. How does the 5 way switch work in DCS? Can it be used to allow for multi function on the same button. Example in mode1 the yellow emergency is eject but in Mode2 it’s fcs reset? Second question, how do you deal with finger lifts AB thing. On the warthog I turn AB always off and use the lifts for AB and tune the curve so mil power is at the AB stop. On the WH I mapped idle to the idle stop and it works great. Does the idle stop act as a button like on the WH? If not I guess you could just bind a button to off/idle? I also want to build a button box. PM if you would like to set me down the right path.

[Karon]

No worries mate.

 

so, the 5-way switch is basically a standard 4-way hat that also support a push button function (you literally push it perpendicularly and is seen by DCS as a different button). If you are familiar with the CH Pro Throttle or TM TWCS Throttle, is the same concept with the bonus fact that actuating the push-button doesn't trigger any directional button. Which is great, I've never used the push function in any of those two throttle, it was almost useless. On the VP Throttle instead it works like a charm!

 

The master mode switch simply works at firmware level and assigns a different logical buttons to the physical one. Depending on the status of the master mode switch, I assign a different HID button to a physical button.

For instance:

Mode I, Button 1 is seen by the game as "Button 1".

Mode II, Button 1 is seen by the game as "Button 2".

Mode III, Button 1 is seen by the game as "Button 3".

Basically the master mode changes the logical function of a physical button. From DCS' point of view, they are completely different buttons, it's up to you what you wanna do with them. I'm not sure this is clear, hopefully I'm not confusing yourself even more :)

 

I haven't tried the AB. Us rotor-heads don't need such frivolous things :P

Jokes aside, I haven't tried, not even out of curiosity. AFAK the detent is soft and it's simply a small part of the movement envelope where the friction is harder. My fellow squadron mates weren't too happy when I told them about it but again I might be wrong.

 

Button box? Nice, I have a few, it's probably the easiest way to increase the number of functions available with very little cost. Check the link in the description. That's my current set up (I've received the T-50 Throttle base plate to be fair, so it's a bit different):

 

 

Start there, then ask me what you need.

[drmorrish]

Thank you Karon. Nice Rig!

[mdee]

Karon,

 

Thanks for the vid. How does the 5 way switch work in DCS? Can it be used to allow for multi function on the same button. Example in mode1 the yellow emergency is eject but in Mode2 it’s fcs reset? Second question, how do you deal with finger lifts AB thing. On the warthog I turn AB always off and use the lifts for AB and tune the curve so mil power is at the AB stop. On the WH I mapped idle to the idle stop and it works great. Does the idle stop act as a button like on the WH? If not I guess you could just bind a button to off/idle? I also want to build a button box. PM if you would like to set me down the right path.

 

Just to ad to the info above.

 

- you can map axis range to a virtual button, so idle detent can generate a button push

- yes, you can configure yellow button just like you said, I am not sure it's pre-configured like that, I'll check

- I just set one of the detents to 75% and it is right where mil power is on F18 and F5.

- As said above detents are not massive "click", doesn't bother me at all as I fly with very light touch, but I can see it can be a "problem" for some people.

- You can config 2 different detents

- 5 way goes in all directions (I can do semi decent circles with it) and can be configured to go slow and faster the longer you press it.

[drmorrish]

Awesome made. Thank you for your reply. I fly jets so your insights are greatly appreciated. VT is supposed to be here in the next two weeks. Thank you.

[Herisson]

can anyone suggest how to make a button function out of the small 'throttle' controller on the T-50 Throttle? I want to use it as a gear up/gear down controller

[mdee]

can anyone suggest how to make a button function out of the small 'throttle' controller on the T-50 Throttle? I want to use it as a gear up/gear down controller

 

 

Change ranges to your liking. Axis number is different for the lever, but I'll leave it to you to figure this out, can't remember on top of my head.

[Cyph3r]

can anyone suggest how to make a button function out of the small 'throttle' controller on the T-50 Throttle? I want to use it as a gear up/gear down controller

 

Check out the VPC Configurator user manual - it explains in detail how to accomplish this :thumbup:

[Karon]

My T-50 is finally back and I've tested the software. Do you have any tips to reduce the jitter on the "small throttle" (apparently that's its name now lol)?

[mdee]

My T-50 is finally back and I've tested the software. Do you have any tips to reduce the jitter on the "small throttle" (apparently that's its name now lol)?

 

I don't have any jitter at all on any of the axes. Did you update the firmware/loaded correct profile? Smoothing is set to 4x on rZ axis (lever).

[Karon]

Yep, I did it. IIRC I set smoothing to 8x.

 

 

Hold on, my bad, I didn't mean to small throttle but the antenna on the main throttle I use for zoom. I know it's a pot whereas the 3 throttles are hall sensors so some jitter is understandable. It's not even too bad but, since it's my zoom, sometimes I can't tell if I'm in VRS, I got hit or the the wheel has start its jitter dance and it scares the hell out of me lol

[Mars Exulte]

Yep, I did it. IIRC I set smoothing to 8x.

 

 

Hold on, my bad, I didn't mean to small throttle but the antenna on the main throttle I use for zoom. I know it's a pot whereas the 3 throttles are hall sensors so some jitter is understandable. It's not even too bad but, since it's my zoom, sometimes I can't tell if I'm in VRS, I got hit or the the wheel has start its jitter dance and it scares the hell out of me lol

 

 

I have persistent issues with that axis, too. Everytime I boot it is nonfunctional until I unplug/replug, it jitters a bit, as well.

[tintifaxl]

I do hope revision 2 of the throttle has a hall sensor for this axis, too. And an analog ministick with hall sensors, of course.