F/A-18C Carrier Landing/Recovery: Pro Tips wanted

[Growling Sidewinder]

So i been practicing big time with this bird, and I've gotten pretty good at putting her down on the deck without crashing or missing the wires (my collection of attempts below)

 

Now that I can do that, I'm looking for pro tips, things i'm doing wrong that you guys know is wrong in respect to the real life procedure. I now want to start doing it as real as possible the right way. Any and all tips are welcome and appreciated. I've included both internal and external views in the video.

 

Thanks again to ED for this great early access bird.

 

 

 

 

[jojo]

He seems to have it right :thumbup:

 

 

 

 

[Edit] Jabbers did this video and he deserves credit for that :thumbup:

Edited June 2, 2018 by jojo

[Growling Sidewinder]

He seems to have it right :thumbup:

 

 

wow how do you know all this stuff...very impressive

[jojo]

I’m not the author of this video. I’m just pointing it to your attention. :smilewink:

 

Most needed real life documentation is available online.

[Hiddenxreaper]

https://youtu.be/XiVdwkuCrwg This guy flew the lot 20 f18c

[Rainmaker]

https://youtu.be/XiVdwkuCrwg This guy flew the lot 20 f18c

 

incredibly debatable....

 

I would stick to JoJo's link...

[Growling Sidewinder]

incredibly debatable....

 

I would stick to JoJo's link...

 

why im watching it now it seems pretty good to me.

[Hiddenxreaper]

I don’t question people on their service but regardless it seems he has some good info on the matter.

[ouPhrontis]

Check this out, too;

8.2.10 Landing Pattern. Page 354 onward.

from;

https://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-ABCD-000.pdf

 

From the LSO perspective;

https://info.publicintelligence.net/LSO-NATOPS-MAY09.pdf

[Manuel_108]

incredibly debatable....

 

I would stick to JoJo's link...

 

Incredibly debatable for you. And mostly you. Because he forgot a small detail he never paid much attention to during his active days 20 years (!) after retiring.

 

I highly recommend watching his videos on CASE 1 recovery and so do most people here.

[Pasquale1986]

Incredibly debatable for you. And mostly you. Because he forgot a small detail he never paid much attention to during his active days 20 years (!) after retiring.

 

I highly recommend watching his videos on CASE 1 recovery and so do most people here.

 

Exactly! He suggests to start with jabbers tutorial that jojo quoted and then watch his stuff for advanced information. The information he provides on the essential details during the case 1 recovery are invaluable. We guys normally do not get access to this stuff. So his input is highly appreciated.

 

One more point:

 

He points out common mistakes that are to be expected. This info gives us a much better idea on what to pay attention during the pattern and when reviewing the pass.

 

I want to give him a massive thank you for the effort and can only suggest everyone to listen to this videos and at least think about his comments.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Cheers guys

[cabzi]

incredibly debatable....

 

I would stick to JoJo's link...

 

Fill your glass mister, because it seems to be half empty most of the time.

[Lord_Pyro]

If sticking to set procedures and checklists is not your style, then i can offer you my system to land on carriers:

 

My suggestion is, you practice until you just look at the deck and bring her down without using the HUD or instruments at all (besides watching your speed).

I know that most of the guys here prefere sticking to checklists and patterns like real pilots do, but for me that does not work.

 

Out of about 20 landings not even a single one had me even roughly alligned with the AoA Indexer, or the velocitythingy in the HUD. It wobbles all over the place, in fact i don't even pay attention to it at all.

Thing is, i take a good look at the deck and try to get my airspeed to about 140/150 (if i have not much ordnance and fuel left)

Then i estimate what could be a good touchdown/impactpoint on the ship and as soon as i am over the stern i cut the throttle to get down to about 120. As soon as i touch down, i go to full AB and wait, if the wire catches or not. The whole process is a lot of anticipating and feeling where the aircraft will be and match it with the point where it should be :D

 

I know that the majority of ppl. will laugh about such approaches as they seem to be nooblike.

But let me tell you something.

Instead of forcing yourself to strict patterns which requires you to use legs and turns where speed and angles have to be just right, with my method i can approach the carrier just from every direction, aim for his stern, decellerate and land. It's a really quick progress and the plane does not break, so i guess it's within the structural limits :D

The second nice thing about it is, that you only need your speedgauge for it. (if visibility is good at least) So if your HUD fails, it's no problem at all.

 

I probably should blame IL2 for it. I started my Sim Career with their pacific Addon and flew countless carriermissions. Mostly Zeros, but also Corsairs or Wildcats. Without even digging for information about approaches i taught my self to land on the ships and the same procedure worked in DCS with the Su33 too. (and in FSX with Tomcats or the Superbug, but ... meh. FSX -.-)

 

What i want to say is, that you should aim to really understand what the plane does and not just limp behind your HUD and AoA indications, trying to get them alligned.

 

To operate by checklists and procedures is the american way to fly. I understand why they did it (in fact there was no other way for them to invent it) and i also understand the benefits of it and why almost every other airforce (or civillian airline) adopted to it.

But it's not the only truth of flying.

[Gaspipe]

To operate by checklists and procedures is the american way to fly. I understand why they did it (in fact there was no other way for them to invent it) and i also understand the benefits of it and why almost every other airforce (or civillian airline) adopted to it.

But it's not the only truth of flying.

 

It is painfully obvious that you have literally zero real world flight experience or you would realize how ridiculous your post is. Not trying to be an ass, but as a 20 yr real world airline captain with 15,000 hrs of real world experience in over 15 types of airplanes, your post is senseless.

 

Checklists, procedures and standards are in place for a reason, mostly derived from cowboy attitudes like yours which has resulted in some form of error or disaster. Technology has provided us with some amazing tools over the past decades with the HUD being one of them and to simply ignore these tools is downright foolish.

 

I realize that this is a simulation, but maybe you should take a few hours and actually learn how to fly correctly. You might learn a thing or two.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Gaspipe

[Lord_Pyro]

Read my last statement, it was directly aimed at your point of view as i saw it coming.

 

And what i was referring to is the way how ppl flew before all those golden rules were invented.

When you were told certain limits of your aircraft but how you approach things was completely up to you.

Remembering the days when the MiG21 came out? There were lots of ppl crashing her during landing because they tried to get their approaches right but spent too much time on focussing on the right angles and speedsets but forgot to take some good eyemeasuring too.

[lmp]

There were also a lot of people crashing MiGs precisely because they weren't following the procedures, landed overweight, too fast or didn't understand how the SPS works. The MiG is just difficult to land as jets go.

 

I don't care how you land, you can do it inverted for all I care. Play the way you want to play. But you're trying to sell your way as the better way. It's not. It'll make people develop bad habbits that are hard to break.

[Gaspipe]

Read my last statement, it was directly aimed at your point of view as i saw it coming.

 

And what i was referring to is the way how ppl flew before all those golden rules were invented.

When you were told certain limits of your aircraft but how you approach things was completely up to you.

Remembering the days when the MiG21 came out? There were lots of ppl crashing her during landing because they tried to get their approaches right but spent too much time on focussing on the right angles and speedsets but forgot to take some good eyemeasuring too.

 

Like I said, not trying to be an ass, but seriously, do you honestly think your fly by the seat of your pants method is better than the millions of flight hours those "golden rules" were predicated on?

 

In real world applications, there is no such thing as "When you were told certain limits of your aircraft but how you approach things was completely up to you."

 

Even test pilots who fly on the bleeding edge of physics and technology have "golden rules" they live by.

[Lord_Pyro]

It's obvious i can't make my self clear, but thats ok i guess.

 

I never wanted to sell it as the better way to do things, but as an alternative to those who struggle with the procedures, taught by the tutorials. I expected to receive some kind of shitstorm yet i didn't knew better :P

[ChasingNeedles]

https://youtu.be/XiVdwkuCrwg This guy flew the lot 20 f18c

 

what does he fly now..? a cargo transport shipping rubber dog toys out of Hong Kong..?

[jojo]

what does he fly now..? a cargo transport shipping rubber dog toys out of Hong Kong..?

 

And what are you currently flying for a living sir ?

[Mule]

incredibly debatable....

 

I would stick to JoJo's link...

 

Rainmaker that pilot openly admits it's hard to recall all the details. In fact he apologised for getting a minor detail wrong and admitted he made a mistake. In my eyes that shows and incredible amount of humility and credibility. Something you lack in bounds. Would love to sit down and have a chat with you. You seem to know everything.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Mule

[Rainmaker]

Rainmaker that pilot openly admits it's hard to recall all the details. In fact he apologised for getting a minor detail wrong and admitted he made a mistake. In my eyes that shows and incredible amount of humility and credibility. Something you lack in bounds. Would love to sit down and have a chat with you. You seem to know everything.

 

Except the hole is continued to dig deeper, the justification only handed him a bigger shovel to dig with. Not knowing to to operate the speedbrake on your aircraft will never get you out of chalks and past preflight checks. Speedbrakes and the like get checked by maintenance before you ever get out of the parking spot. How do you think that happens if the guy holding the stick doesn’t even know the proper way to extend it all the way? It’s not minor, and it’s not a mistake, he just doesn’t know half of what really happens fromstartup to shutdown IRL because he’s never done it. You can’t BS you way theough the story when you are talking to someone that’s done it for real. Real life isn’t FSX and Top Gun. Planes break, really often actually, so things like that get checked every time someone gets in the seat to go fly. It’s not something that just gets looked over, he has a job as does the maintenace guy looking at all the stiff the pilot can’t see. He never properly extends the brake, or misinterprets real opertaion as he claims, and it’s getting noticed long before he’s ever in the pattern trying to land.

 

Sorry, I don’t appreciate somone trying to emulate somone that’s busted their tail and actually is part of the 1% of those that have served. My resume is stout enough I have no problem identifying someone who is trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Rainmaker

[Mule]

Except the hole is continued to dig deeper, the justification only handed him a bigger shovel to dig with. Not knowing to to operate the speedbrake on your aircraft will never get you out of chalks and past preflight checks. Speedbrakes and the like get checked by maintenance before you ever get out of the parking spot. How do you think that happens if the guy holding the stick doesn’t even know the proper way to extend it all the way? It’s not minor, and it’s not a mistake, he just doesn’t know half of what really happens fromstartup to shutdown IRL because he’s never done it. You can’t BS you way through the story when you are talking to someone that’s done it for real. Real life isn’t FSX and Top Gun. Planes break, really often actually, so things like that get checked every time someone gets in the seat to go fly. It’s not something that just gets looked over, he has a job as does the maintenance guy looking at all the stiff the pilot can’t see.

 

He did this job 20 years ago. He has clearly moved on and done other things. Where as you don't seem to have done so yourself. The way you bated him was rude and quite frankly embarrassing on your behalf. You jumped all over his back. Why couldn't you as an ex serviceman pm him and get some clarification for your piece of mind? I'm an ex serviceman and would gladly respond to an ex military guy with respect and courtesy in all these matters as we do.

 

I'm not going to respond to you publicly anymore because you clearly have an agenda. If you want to continue, pm me and I will gladly have an adult debate with you.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Mule

[Wags]

Easy folks. We have no reason to doubt who he says he is. We enjoy his videos, and they are valuable to help make our Hornet better.

 

Thanks

[mdee]

Easy folks. We have no reason to doubt who he says he is. We enjoy his videos, and they are valuable to help make our Hornet better.

 

Thanks

 

I definitely have a lot of trust in your judgement here. I still prefer Jabbers videos tho :)

 

Also found this one, which is rather good.:smartass:

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by mdee