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Do we need an airquake server for WW2?


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Every Normandy map is spread out with a handful of pilots (if any). I can't help but wonder if we need an airquake map for WW2 to rekindle interest. Many people don't have the time, or patience, to fly around for an hour squinting for pixels, and usually coming up empty.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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Every Normandy map is spread out with a handful of pilots (if any). I can't help but wonder if we need an airquake map for WW2 to rekindle interest. Many people don't have the time, or patience, to fly around for an hour squinting for pixels, and usually coming up empty.

 

There are/ were air-quake servers - and they're mostly empty too.

It's not the servers that are the problem.

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Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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Not every. This Burning Skies is the first time the airfields are more than 100 km apart. Previous ww2 servers and missions had airfields much closer - around 40 to 70 km and it always felt like things are too close. All too often Luftwaffe ended up on top of the airfields and all that developed on the server was vulching and air quake (particularly with mission on Caucasus map with airfields at Novorosijsk and Anapa) over Novo.

 

Finally airfields are placed in a reasonable distance, though Id like to have a chance to take off from Britain as well.

 

The problem is not the mission when it comes to low numbers.

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Every Normandy map is spread out with a handful of pilots (if any). I can't help but wonder if we need an airquake map for WW2 to rekindle interest. Many people don't have the time, or patience, to fly around for an hour squinting for pixels, and usually coming up empty.

 

imo, yes we need it....even one with airspawns and a close by dogfight area...quick action for people who dont want to waste their time searching the needle in the haystack.

i would love it, especially right now where there is pretty much only 1 server available, with too big distance between the airfields for the numbers we have online.

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especially right now where there is pretty much only 1 server available, with too big distance between the airfields for the numbers we have online.

 

not only one server with WWII scenario is here, but servers with airquake or similar scenario are nearly permanently empty

I ask you, why is that?

 

It seem not to be airquake which will be solution for declining WWII population in DCS world.

The problem is far elsewhere. I do not mean servers admins.

F-14A/B

P-51D | P-47D | Mosquito FB Mk VI |Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K |  WWII Assets Pack

Normandy | The Channel

F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | Syria | PG | NTTR | CA | SC |

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not only one server with WWII scenario is here, but servers with airquake or similar scenario are nearly permanently empty

I ask you, why is that?

 

It seem not to be airquake which will be solution for declining WWII population in DCS world.

The problem is far elsewhere. I do not mean servers admins.

 

 

well, im running open beta version, and i only see 1 ww2 server which is burning skies...from time to time there is the other american server, which would actually be really neat to fly on, but unfortunately it has AI fighters in there...which in my opinion is the main reason why its usually empty.

 

then, there is/was acg server...dont know if its online in stable version or completely disappeared altogether...but again, it had AI b17 in the mission, which were horrible for performance, but worse, were spawning and despawning right in front of your face...which is a complete immersion killer,....well at least for me...

 

to my knowledge, there is not a single permanent ww2 server, with:

-no AI

-airspawns close to each other

which would resemble a so called airquake server, where its all about dogfighting and gaining skills...

 

 

where it doesnt matter much if you are killed, because respawning brings you back right into action without time consuming start up procedures, without flying for 15minutes only to see contacts right above their airbases, which again results in vulching, and as a consequence, disconnecting clients, and ultimately an empty server....


Edited by birdstrike
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Then is the problem price? DCS WWII is great, but as an initial kickstarter backer I got in at a bargain. You've got the map, the asset pack, and 4 fighters. If you buy them all right now...

 

Spiitfire $50

Bf 109 $50

Fw 190 $50

P-51D $40

Normandy $60

WW2 assets pack $30

----------------

$280 for the DCS WWII experience, which is probably too much to attract the WW2 crowd.

 

The other thing that makes me tire of WWII in DCS is the visibility settings. With a 4k display I have a hard time seeing aircraft even with the label mod. It's not so bad with other time periods because of radar, awacs, and the larger size of many 3rd/4th gen fighters.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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I think that price is not main problem.

As i know, the most people who play air simulators have at least one WWII plane and Normandy map with asset pack.

 

The problem is missing or ended support from ED, like unfinished modules, overbuged everything around WWII content, unfinished map itself.

Tragic never-ending story "NEW damage model" is another funny story.

 

People rather goes play something existing instead always only read "more information SOON" and soon expired far ago.

 

Small part of low online population is lack of new scenarios, if there only one mission is on server, players will leave, but that is understandable.

What can server admin do if he has nothing, unfinished one small map and incomplete asset pack, it is hard...

F-14A/B

P-51D | P-47D | Mosquito FB Mk VI |Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K |  WWII Assets Pack

Normandy | The Channel

F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | Syria | PG | NTTR | CA | SC |

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Interesting discussion here. AFAIK Burning Skies is the only normal WW2 server at the moment. Their missions are great, with custom kneeboards and all. They use a label mod so visibility is not a problem, it's actually quite realistic.

 

I think the biggest problem is that Evreux and Carpiquet are so far apart that there's no chance of meeting anyone when there are less than 5 players, so people give up easily and therefore they leave before the server could get crowded enough. The solution to this could be to give people stuff to do even when they are virtually (pun intended) alone on the server, to make sure they hang in there until others join.

 

- AI bombers

- A large variety of ground targets - which we have now - that are not only tanks. Tanks require direct hits and are quite annoying. Strafing trucks and trains are more fun.

- Closer airbases - not everyone has the patience to fly 20 minutes to see some action. If the server was always crowded I would also prefer larger distances, but this is not the case.

 

On top of this I'm sure the new DM and making bombs available for the Spitfire will revive the interest in WW2 MP.

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To add to the above, I don’t consider the BS server to be VR friendly, which is why I don’t frequent it.

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I'm sure there are loads of server operators willing to put up new mission types and environments to fly in... as soon as they are confident that we have the assets + finished map + stable environment to put them up.

Burning Skies only has one mission at the moment AFAIKT (Road to Evreaux). It would be nice to see 2 or 3 different missions in their rotation... The others servers that we used to have (RAF662, ACG WW2 etc..) are apparently in a hiatus right now. This is no surprise.

 

I've also got a set of WW2 missions I'd happily put up on a server, however the limited usability of the assets pack right now and the rather poor state of the map means that I am holding of finalising these until the product quality is up to an acceptable standard.

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Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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It would be nice to see 2 or 3 different missions in their rotation...

 

IMO this is the only solution in the meantime. For whatever reason right after 2.5 came out Eekz had it setup exactly backwards so that during the main playtime the Normandy Anticipation mission would be running with a full server and turned into a vulch fest on both sides, and then during off peak hours the Evreux or Gali missions would run and it was essentially like playing free flight in singleplayer.

 

I always thought the other Normandy missions (ACG and BS) were a good balance as far as distance. Even if it was a bit repetitive having everything centred around the bay near Carentan.

 

Ironically people were begging for the huge airfield spacing before, because they were upset that the normal airfield spacing didnt let them climb to 30000000000000 feet and BNZ without risk.

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imo, yes we need it....even one with airspawns and a close by dogfight area...quick action for people who dont want to waste their time searching the needle in the haystack.

i would love it, especially right now where there is pretty much only 1 server available, with too big distance between the airfields for the numbers we have online.

 

Agree for the WWII Fast Dogfight (airspawn) servers.

 

Burning Skies server are okay, but many times I don't have the time to fly that server...

I fast dogfight with airspawn would be a good second choice server for players that have only half an hour...


Edited by VII.Racetrack

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I'm sure there are loads of server operators willing to put up new mission types and environments to fly in... as soon as they are confident that we have the assets + finished map + stable environment to put them up.

Burning Skies only has one mission at the moment AFAIKT (Road to Evreaux). It would be nice to see 2 or 3 different missions in their rotation... The others servers that we used to have (RAF662, ACG WW2 etc..) are apparently in a hiatus right now. This is no surprise.

 

I've also got a set of WW2 missions I'd happily put up on a server, however the limited usability of the assets pack right now and the rather poor state of the map means that I am holding of finalising these until the product quality is up to an acceptable standard.

 

Can't say I'm convinced that Server Operators are that willing.

I put forward a suggestion/request that at least one of them sets up a server with labels enabled, such that VR users aren't as disadvantaged. Had NO reply at all from any server owners.

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From a DoW server perspective, i simply got burned out. I had to use scripts to make the missions do what i wanted and it became a larger effort to keep the missions running than actually being online playing myself.

 

That said, I'd like to remind everyone that I released the ENTIRE [DoW] Server mission list to the user files section for download. If anyone wants to take these Caucuses missions and move the griound units so they don't conflict with the new terrain then I'd imagine they could be up and running with minimal effort.

 

files are all here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?set_filter=Y&arrFilter_pf%5Bfiletype%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Bgameversion%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Bfilelang%5D=&arrFilter_pf%5Baircraft%5D=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&CREATED_BY=dooom&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC&set_filter=Filter

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Mean Dogfight Server why not, first Problem anyone have to setup a Dogfight Server...

When I look the other "Simulations" the Berloga Server is every Day full, its to practice Dogfight Skills and Team Work in Combat Situation and not so much from tactical Point of Engagement.

It is not every one Flying Style, some of the People never fly something like Burning Skys Mission or the other Way around..

 

 

But for quick Action with Air spawn with only the handful People currently flying DCS would be more Fun...

For me "personally" Flying every Time 20 Minutes to the Blue Airbase absolute Pain with 5 People online to found nothing on this big Mission, absolute kills the Rest of my Motivation to fly DCS...

The BS Mission can be Fun but we have to less People flying WW2 MP right now...


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For me air spawns and pure short paced dog fighting would kill the immersion and realism behind it. DCS for me is all about realism and immersion. So air spawn, getting shot down, spawn again shooting someone down, getting shot down again and spawn again would be too much like other simulations, that are complete focused around that playstyle. It's quite fulfilling to bomb some ground targets, getting chased and damaged by fighters and bring the plane home safe and sound.

 

 

TL;DR: I don't need an air quake server.

 

 

There are at least 3-4 WWII servers: Burning Skies, ACG WWII, Blue Flag Normandy and some other I saw but didn't join.

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Looking forward to it, Belsimtek!:thumbup:

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For me air spawns and pure short paced dog fighting would kill the immersion and realism behind it. DCS for me is all about realism and immersion. So air spawn, getting shot down, spawn again shooting someone down, getting shot down again and spawn again would be too much like other simulations, that are complete focused around that playstyle. It's quite fulfilling to bomb some ground targets, getting chased and damaged by fighters and bring the plane home safe and sound.

 

Of course, I think we all prefer more realistic combat, but that's not the point. Usually you need a critical mass of pilots before the more realistic type of combat is viable.

 

Right now, with less than 10 pilots on a server, we're not simulating much of anything. Pilots need a place to practice and gain confidence before they're going to thirst for a larger map.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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Usually you need a critical mass of pilots before the more realistic type of combat is viable.

 

Exactly. Would it make sense to try and coordinate a weekly public pickup game? If I knew other pilots are likely to join at a certain hour, I'm more likely to stick around waiting for critical mass. Particularly if it opens up more interesting / immersive mission designs.

 

Its also easier to explain to the wife "All these pilots from around the world are going to be flying TOGETHER and its going to be great and... can you watch the kids?"

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The Just Dogfight server seems quite popular for modern era aircraft. It's all airstarts with a central "arena" over the lake.

 

I would play a similar server for WWII aircraft. I also think having more "soft" ground targets in Burning Skies would be beneficial, something I can actually kill with my Spitfire.

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The way I see it, not the mission, the lack of focus, or distance (though I prefer longer distance, even if it's just one other guy) between airfields are the problem. The problem lies in the aircraft. The P-51D was designed as a long-range escort fighter. The Spitfire was...idk a turn fighter at low speeds. The 109 and 190 built light to intercept. The allies bring the fight, not the axis. Therefore, the axis aircraft don't have as many requirements and necessities as the allied aircraft did after D-day. On top of that, there weren't as many axis aircraft as there were allied in the sky. With this, a short-distance air-quake server is completely all for the axis team. Drawing out the distance between airfields is one of the better desicions that could be made.

With added space, there are ground objectives; some out of the way of the rabble-area (where most aircraft furball, between the two airfields), which separates it off from the air-quake.

 

I haven't been on Burning Skies in some time (because hell, nobody is there ever!), but the Mustang's need a big bomber formation to escort, and if the B-17's hit their target, it's an automatic "win" for blue. Last I remember BS had a bomber formation, but it was skimpy at best. Anyways, this will allow folks like me to fly up there in my Mustang and shoot down 190s (most 109s had tended to be too scared or didn't want to bother using their superior intercept ability to...well...intercept) or fly up in my own 109 (I was always the only one...) and pummel B-17s with terrible damage models.

 

Finally, everyone is biased, and roll with ze German aircrohft. More often than not, when I had dabbled in BS, the red team outnumbered the blue team. After it took three individual 109s to shoot down my lonely Spitfire, I had enough. Frankly, I feel that this is the way the spirit of WWII died for many individuals.

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i think the BURNING SKIES server is absolutely awesome right now. someone mentioned it not being VR friendly, i disagree completely. the "dot" in VR couldn't be more noticeable. maybe i dont see them as early as i would with monitor, but i dont mind really, and im sure in the future there will be a solution to this. maybe different labes for VR?

The few times i have been on the server in VR has been wonderful.

 

 

The distance between airfields is GOOD and i dont mind flying a bit more to the target area. And if i notice im alone and see 3 dots coming from enemy side, i turn around and drag them closer to our field and as soon as i see friendlies i turn to them, then engage the enemy when i see that the friendlies are close enough to say im not alone anymore. works really well in my opinion. sometimes of course there are no friendlies to turn to, but hey, everything cant be awesome and perfect ALL the time.

 

 

 

All this whining will do is diminish the motivation of the people making the missions and hosting the servers. whine less, fly more, forget the stats and have fun. it's not that serious, really.

 

 

everybody wants something different, and i tell you, if there would be options to please everyone, then the people would be so scattered that it would be really hard to find someone to play with. that is what has happened to racing sims. all the tracks and mods, (and rules and aids) has done just that.

there are propably 100 times more sim racers than there are sim pilots, yet it's harder to find people to race with than it is to find people to fly with online. BECAUSE there is option for everyone in racing.

 

 

sometimes i think that all you whiners dont realise how good things are for us pilots. do not **** this up, i beg of you.


Edited by voodooman
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IMO i like BS as it is at the moment, despite the axis airfield is not the best one for vfr missions,

and i think we really need a mission like it was normandy_anticipation1944 on caucasus,

1. caucasus is free

2. short flying time for players with limited time

3. easy to find airfields and targets

 

we should give every new player interested in ww2 the opportunity to hop on for 45mins , find a target, shoot something/one get shot down and make him feel the experience that ww2 dogfights give us

 

gaining new players should be priority no1, IMO

 

so best would be a 2nd BS server with this old close fields mission, in addition to BS on Normandy


Edited by FoxDelta
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IMO i like BS as it is at the moment, despite the axis airfield is not the best one for vfr missions,

and i think we really need a mission like it was normandy_anticipation1944 on caucasus,

1. caucasus is free

2. short flying time for players with limited time

3. easy to find airfields and targets

 

we should give every new player interested in ww2 the opportunity to hop on for 45mins , find a target, shoot something/one get shot down and make him feel the experience that ww2 dogfights give us

 

gaining new players should be priority no1, IMO

 

so best would be a 2nd BS server with this old close fields mission, in addition to BS on Normandy

The Caucasus mission was great.

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No it wasnt. It was complained by number of players due to creation of exactly what this thread mentions. An air quake, most of the time over Novo, which reduced fun for both sides.

 

I find it weird that some decide to fly the most realistic simulation of this warbirds, but then wish to use them in the least realistic way ?

 

Current mission on BS is a great improvement over previous mess and the only thing I wish for, is the provision of a single airfield in England and a bunch of Ai bombers to protect.

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