VR FPS (2.5.1.16543.355)

[Thudster]

Here ya go.

Carrier Take-Off mission in the AV-8B.

Ctrl-Pause counter in VR.

Also my custom skin AV-8B of the Ohio Air National Guard, circa 1980. IE: A7-D type lol.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Thudster

[SkateZilla]

Does that mean there might be a chance of a Mac version to keep some of my friends happy? I believe Vulkan is being made available to macOS.

 

NO because everything else is still compiled w/ Windows Visual C+

 

 

Why is ED going with Vulkan instead of DX12?

 

Well I cannot say, But I can Speculate Conclusively the Benefits of Vulkan over DX12.

 

1. The DX11 - DX12 transition/conversion, is not as simple as Microsoft Makes it, and any quick Conversion, would still have the same performance as DirectX11_0.

 

2. DirectX 12, is Limited to Windows 10 Only, Vulkan runs on Android, Linux, Tizen, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 (third-party support for iOS and macOS[18] is also available).

 

Choosing DX12, would Shut Out Windows 7 and Windows 8 Users, Vulkan would allow those users to continue to use DCS.

 

Although a DX12 offers a DX11_0 Compatibility Mode, ED would then be forced to develop a GFX Engine to Run both DX11 Commands as well as DX12, limiting the DX12 Engine to the same Performance w/ Little to no gains, and a bigger budget and 2 separate GFX Engines to Manage.

 

3. mGPU, While Both API's No Longer Need SLi/CrossFireX Drivers/Support from AMD/nVidia,

Vulkan's mGPU Modes work better than DX12's Implicit/Explicit/Linked/Unlinked Modes.

 

Both API's Offer resource Pooling (ie 2x 8 GB GPUs will show a a single 16GB GPU). Vulkan's just works better, a lot of developers are having issues w/ DX12's MGPU Modes.

[SkateZilla]

I have nearly the same settings. Except shadows low and global shadows default. I don't think I get anywhere near constant 70 fps unless I'm up really high with not much going on.

 

Also I'm using a Samsung Odyssey with PD of 1.5.

 

SSAA doesn't do anything for VR..some people mentioned it's mainly for monitor use. I haven't tried to turn it on but those who have have said it stretches things out, scales them weird?

 

Despite not getting the fps you get, I get no lag or stutters so that's really all that matters at least to me.

 

SSAA is Disabled in VR and Above 1080P Monitors.

[imacken]

Here ya go.

Carrier Take-Off mission in the AV-8B.

Ctrl-Pause counter in VR.

No one is doubting what you say, I think we’re all a bit confused how you are getting double the FPS of others with almost the same kit.

[Thudster]

No one is doubting what you say, I think we’re all a bit confused how you are getting double the FPS of others with almost the same kit.

 

Sorry - truly didn't mean it to sound defensive. More of a - yes it's possible.

I do wish there was one "ah-ha" moment in the tuning to point to.

 

**And you've turned off ASW??**

Edited June 29, 2018 by Thudster

[Thudster]

Looking forward to Vulkan. I'm hoping that means Vulkan will open the locked-up GPU and advanced card capabilities for DCS use.

 

The world has changed a lot since this simulation started. It takes a lot of effort and time to engage all of it. Sounds great that things are headed this way.

[Sniper175]

Thudster, what settings do you use in VR, Vr preset or ??

 

Thanks :thumbup:

 

Disregard see them thanks.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Sniper175

[imacken]

Thudster, what settings do you use in VR, Vr preset or ??

 

Thanks :thumbup:

 

He posted his settings in #193.

[sze5003]

I'll do some testing tonight and try to figure out how to take screen shots while I'm in my Samsung headset. I run stand alone dcs, but the odyssey requires you to have wmr steam VR app. Installed for it to run.

[Thudster]

I wonder if there is a much bigger difference in my having the second GPU handling PhysX and whatever overhead Nvidia assigns to it. Even though my cards are disparate, the second card is assigned PhysX and has load on it.

 

I could check it by turning it off, to see how much it carries now that the rest of the tuning is done. Sometime in the next few days, I'll give it a shot.

 

Meantime, if someone has another GPU in the family, try it out.

[Sniper175]

I wonder if there is a much bigger difference in my having the second GPU handling PhysX and whatever overhead Nvidia assigns to it. Even though my cards are disparate, the second card is assigned PhysX and has load on it.

 

I could check it by turning it off, to see how much it carries now that the rest of the tuning is done. Sometime in the next few days, I'll give it a shot.

 

Meantime, if someone has another GPU in the family, try it out.

 

I think you may be on to something. I dont have a second gpu but when i did i noticed improvements with it being set to physx. Be great to see what your results are.

[Stal2k]

I wonder if there is a much bigger difference in my having the second GPU handling PhysX and whatever overhead Nvidia assigns to it. Even though my cards are disparate, the second card is assigned PhysX and has load on it.

 

I could check it by turning it off, to see how much it carries now that the rest of the tuning is done. Sometime in the next few days, I'll give it a shot.

 

Meantime, if someone has another GPU in the family, try it out.

 

Thudster - First off thank you for all your input here. I know from a few pages ago everyone was kind of giving you the side eye when it came to your claims. Despite all that you are trying to help out, it's good to see the general tone has changed. I think several folks and even this thread itself are doing a lot to champion VR in the sense ED can see their users care about it.

 

That being said, I'm also pretty interested in what you find out with Physx. In the meantime, I've been playing with a lot of things, including tuning the NVIDIA profile. It's hard to tell what is legit vs placebo but the battle I face is mostly keeping ASW on. I need to, for me, it's all the difference in the world. The thing I battle with is not really the smoothness of the sim but the 'double vision' when you go by another plane or carrier pretty fast.

 

That is where I've been playing with the NVIDIA profile to try to see some gains. Unfortunately, I just realized the last few days I've had my Warthog profiles disabling ASW on accident (CTRL-Num1) which I finally hunted down. Anyways, Thanks for your input the one component of your setup most people can't (easily) really replicate is the extra video cards. The process lasso thing is interesting too, I know SWEVIVR made X-plane 11 playable using a combination of things, process lasso being one of them.

 

Again - thanks to you and really everyone else on this thread for keeping it fresh! :)

[imacken]

Thudster - First off thank you for all your input here. I know from a few pages ago everyone was kind of giving you the side eye when it came to your claims. Despite all that you are trying to help out, it's good to see the general tone has changed. I think several folks and even this thread itself are doing a lot to champion VR in the sense ED can see their users care about it.

 

Again - thanks to you and really everyone else on this thread for keeping it fresh! :)

 

Seriously? You think that this thread ‘champions VR’?

It’s interesting, but no more significant compared to the 100s of others here. There are many people and threads showing the enthusiasm we have for DCS in VR.

[Thudster]

Whelp - I dunno who listens to anything around the Forums. But in the Open Beta Issues area under VR Issues this thread had more views and posts. Seemed natural to read and respond here.

 

If there are other threads that might be more helpful, do let me know, love to read them.

I think ED gets it and is working on what's next, whenever that is.

 

Stal2K thanks for the note, something worked for me it could help others, you nevah know. Others shared, I thought I would too.

 

Ran some tests and I'm getting 0%-20%-35% utilization on the second GPU. Not consistent, kind of spiky. It's taking a load and doing something...

[Flighter]

Ran some tests and I'm getting 0%-20%-35% utilization on the second GPU. Not consistent, kind of spiky. It's taking a load and doing something...

 

Hi Thudster. Thanks for the post and the info.

I hope that you could spare some more of your time and patience, and probably do the same test that this thread is based on.

 

I would be very interested to see even one of these measurements from your system.

 

The same goes for all people of course, it would be nice to see how various systems perform. Since you have oculus, you could post fps as well as the "performance headroom" for a direct comparison with the table and chart.

 

This is how I perform my tests :

- Load sim, go to settings page and set as per attached image 00.

- Select instant action, KA50 module, Nevada map, Nevada free flight (image 01). I only hope you have Nevada and the KA50.

- Let the mission load, do not un-pause it (image 02).

- Activate the oculus performance Visual HUD from Oculus Tray Tool.

- Look left and right, let any loading finish, then look in the middle of the screen and press NUM 5 to reset the VR position.

- Place you view angle as per image 03 (the performance window follows your gaze).

 

I suggest a PD of 1.5 for the whole set. I leave the game's at 1 and set it from Oculus Tray Tool.

If you only want to do one measurement I would be very interested at PD=1.5, MSAA=x4, flat shadows.

 

Using Superposition Benchmark from unigine. Results benchmark to 6300-6700.

 

Can you please tell me which version and what settings (resolution) ? I just installed it and I get 7021 on 4K. The VR benchmark needs the payed version...

 

Many thanks !

 

P.S. The latest update to 2.5.2.18736 does not seem to have any significant performance differences from previous versions.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Flighter

[Thudster]

Flighter, if I get a chance I will try it. Awfully similar to the last one I tried up for someone.

 

I can tell you right now it'll be between 80-92 FPS.

With drops to 75 briefly and rarely. No lag or tears or jumps will occur.

Looking left, right, up, down in the cockpit it will remain the same. The large change comes in external views. I don't use those except for snaps and movies anyway.

 

The level of specificity you are noting isn't going to matter for smooth gameplay. It would matter to chase tight scenario optimization. My goal wasn't quite the same.

I've tried lots of aircraft and FPS counters including the Oculus one in hundreds of scenarios. This is where I land on everything in FPS... even in a dogfight.

 

If anyone is looking for a finer level of assurance that spending money on hardware or spending time on tuning is going to pay off, there isn't one that I can see.

Too many variables and the VR technology is too new for the graphics engine currently available. It will change in 12-18 months anyway - Moore's Law wins!

 

I wish you luck, generally, you find new things and outcomes you didn't expect when you take the plunge and see what happens.

Love to hear what you find as well.

 

I used 1080p Extreme DirectX in the Performance Benchmark Category, not VR. Version 1.0 (build 6181)

My goal in using this software was in checking the changes against my own system capabilities, being able to see where my changes mattered broadly.

Then flying it in DCS and Prepar3d offline/online to check real-world impact on playability, FPS, and stutter.

 

Besides, this is fun, hate to turn it into a job. ;)

(which is funny because I'm an IT Engineering Sr. Mgr)

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Thudster

[imacken]

 

The same goes for all people of course, it would be nice to see how various systems perform. Since you have oculus, you could post fps as well as the "performance headroom" for a direct comparison with the table and chart.

 

This is how I perform my tests :

- Load sim, go to settings page and set as per attached image 00.

- Select instant action, KA50 module, Nevada map, Nevada free flight (image 01). I only hope you have Nevada and the KA50.

- Let the mission load, do not un-pause it (image 02).

- Activate the oculus performance Visual HUD from Oculus Tray Tool.

- Look left and right, let any loading finish, then look in the middle of the screen and press NUM 5 to reset the VR position.

- Place you view angle as per image 03 (the performance window follows your gaze).

 

I suggest a PD of 1.5 for the whole set. I leave the game's at 1 and set it from Oculus Tray Tool.

If you only want to do one measurement I would be very interested at PD=1.5, MSAA=x4, flat shadows.

 

 

 

Can you please tell me which version and what settings (resolution) ? I just installed it and I get 7021 on 4K. The VR benchmark needs the payed version...

 

 

Out of interest, I get 8961 on Superposition running 4K optimised.

Performing your DCS tests I get 90fps for MSAA 0 and Terrain shadows off, and 45 fps (not varying at all!) for all the other variants you asked for.

One thing I don't understand is that even with ASW off (confirmed by OTT) I still get stuck at 45 fps most of the time. Doesn't show the frame variance I would have expected.

[Flighter]

Hi Thudler thanks for your post.

It's always refreshing to see nice, helpful posts.

The purpose of my initial post, was to show that if ED took away the previous renderer, VR users would be seriously impacted and have a much worst final perceived image quality.

Ofc this has now happened. Let's hope that soon, we get back the lost performance and even more. No need to cry over spilled milk.

 

But ! when a post like yours shows 2 to 3 times more performance than the collective average, you pay attention ! :)

 

I can tell you right now it'll be between 80-92 FPS.

Are you sure that you are not using the previous release version (2.5.0) with deferred shading off ? Your performance matches exactly that. Which would be an irony, as this was the starter of this thread !

 

The level of specificity you are noting isn't going to matter for smooth gameplay.

Very much agreed.

In this case it is only to get consistent and reliable test results. Some posts back I was "informed" that :

... it's a worthless effort ...

because of that. Again, it's called the "internets" for a reason :thumbup:

 

Again, your posts are very much appreciated. On our valuable free time, we should be flying and having fun, not posting !

Cheers !

 

 

P.S Forgot to mention, my system gives a score of 4271 for the "1080p Extreme" test of Superposition benchmark.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Flighter

[Flighter]

Out of interest, I get 8961 on Superposition running 4K optimised.

Performing your DCS tests I get 90fps for MSAA 0 and Terrain shadows off, and 45 fps (not varying at all!) for all the other variants you asked for.

One thing I don't understand is that even with ASW off (confirmed by OTT) I still get stuck at 45 fps most of the time. Doesn't show the frame variance I would have expected.

 

 

Hi imacken

Good to see your results. I assume that PD was set to 1.5.

Judging from your better system, it makes sense. I get 73 fps (instead of your 90).

Another interesting observation is that the difference from Superposition benchmark (you are 27% better: 8921 / 7021) is also reflected in DCS fps (you are 23 % better, but you may be above 90 fps and you do not see it).

I can verify the issue you mention, with the fps with oculus being not very informative of what the game itself is doing. They lock up in various numbers that do not always make sense. Especially if you have 90 fps, there is no way (that I know of) to tell what the real frame production is (without calculating it from other parameters). The "performance overhead" is more informative and has a finer resolution; this is the reason I chose it for my comparison between the DCS versions. Maybe you can see the difference there.

Best regards.

[Thudster]

Yup - I'm running on the latest beta. Separate drives, Icons, etc between Released/Open Beta for me. For that reason, not like a mistake like that hasn't happened before ha!

 

Flighter - your note on the benchmark is significant. Somewhere in my tuning, I'm getting higher throughput that shows up in this test.

 

I appreciate what you're getting into for determination of impact on VR. I think though that since ED is heading toward Vulkan and probably other significant changes in the various graphics engine capabilities, not sure it will be relevant past 6 months. But, if there are tunes they can make before that time, well, we get back some capability.

 

I've been tuning my game machines since Air Warrior in 1988 with Kelton Flynn. Never documenting in depth, just tuning for playability. Other than benchmarking during the steps, I found documenting arduous. I'm starting to wish I had taken better notes lol.

 

**Unmentioned to this point, I do have two large swap files on SDD/M.2 drives. I never let Windows manage it. No matter the banter about available memory, windows opens up with swap headroom. Especially if it's on SDD or m.2 drives. I suspect it's 10 things like this that I do on any machine I own that plows the road to speed. Rest assured, nothing stock about my Windows installs. With Process Lasso and Windows Process watchers, I saw many page faults and swaps coming from DCS. This led me to crank up space and see if it helps. Tuning for SQL seems to help DCS engines flex. Similar stress points?

Swaps:

*32,000-38,000 on M.2

*64,000-68,000 on SDD

 

** I also saw a jump in FPS with the latest BIOS update for the Gigabyte MB. Included fix #3 from Intel I believe. The Gigabyte part included fixes for "Graphics Card Compatability and Performance" didn't dig into what exactly that was as I was already 3 revs back.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Thudster

[Thudster]

Out of interest, I get 8961 on Superposition running 4K optimised.

Performing your DCS tests I get 90fps for MSAA 0 and Terrain shadows off, and 45 fps (not varying at all!) for all the other variants you asked for.

One thing I don't understand is that even with ASW off (confirmed by OTT) I still get stuck at 45 fps most of the time. Doesn't show the frame variance I would have expected.

 

Using OTT and once in-cockpit:

I've needed to switch to OTT, turn ASW to AUTO, then back OFF again.

Both operations confirmed via OTT OSD.

 

Else I sit at 45 fps. Not sure what the reason is, but once noted, it's become SOP for me.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Thudster

[Stal2k]

Seriously? You think that this thread ‘champions VR’?

It’s interesting, but no more significant compared to the 100s of others here. There are many people and threads showing the enthusiasm we have for DCS in VR.

 

Yes, yes I do... I can give you about 13,000+ reasons why what you just said was stupid, but most importantly unhelpful.

 

[imacken]

Using OTT and once in-cockpit:

I've needed to switch to OTT, turn ASW to AUTO, then back OFF again.

Both operations confirmed via OTT OSD.

 

Else I sit at 45 fps. Not sure what the reason is, but once noted, it's became SOP for me.

 

Hmm.. interesting. I’ll give that a go.

What happens with me is that pretty much any combination of settings shows high variability in FPS as long as MSAA is set to 0.

Whenever it is set to x2, I get almost stuck at 45. Hardly ever changes either up or down.

I’ll give your suggestion a try and report back.

[Flighter]

Amazing improvemnt from a mod !!!!

 

OK, just saw this thread :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373

 

 

Of course I had to try it.. and the results are amazing.

I hope ED has seen this.

What a great job Kegetys !

 

 

 

 

[StefVR]

I will come back to DCS once a 1180ti or new gtx titan is released and or vulcan.