can anyone watch this and give me some pointers? (2 min video)

[aledmb]

hey guys...

 

i've been practicing flying the huey for a few days and i'm having a hard time at a few key moments, as you will be able to see in the video:

 

1. i have trouble approaching a target over which i would like to hover... in the video, my target was the big parking area next to the trucks, and from the start my intent was to hover there facing the trucks... what am i lacking here? i mean, except loads of practice.

 

2. after i'm finally close to the ground, i suddenly start having lots of trouble keeping the cyclic in the same general area, because now the helicopter feels like a boat facing big waves.

 

3. i'm trying to practice without trimming it, but i'm not sure if that's a good path to follow.

 

those are my main concerns and i wish someone could help me so that i don't spend too much time practicing the wrong way and developing bad habits.

 

i love helicopters and i will not give up. :D

 

btw, i'm using a thrustmaster hotas cougar, mfg pedals and trackir.

 

thanks in advance!

 

[Laro]

Have you watched this tutorial?

 

The two important things from this tutorial are:

1. The new "neutral position" of the cyclic when hovering

2. Only small adjustments to hover above one place

 

One thing that might help is the Saturation Y slider for the pitch and roll input, you can find it in controls->axis->axis tune. But be aware that when you set it to 50%, you can move the stick all the way into one direction but in game it will translate to only half the input so you probably need to trim a lot.

 

With the warthog stick i had it set to 80%.

[aledmb]

2. Only small adjustments to hover above one place

 

One thing that might help is the Saturation Y slider for the pitch and roll input, you can find it in controls->axis->axis tune. But be aware that when you set it to 50%, you can move the stick all the way into one direction but in game it will translate to only half the input so you probably need to trim a lot.

 

With the warthog stick i had it set to 80%.

 

oh, i think i don't have the skills to keep those very small adjustments, but maybe i need to invest a few more hours into it.

 

i'll try to adjust the saturation... that will probably help with it.

 

thank you!

[Chic]

Give it a few hours. You're in for a real treat.

[Laro]

Yes it will take some time, my first trys with hovering the Huey were all over the place.

It is a bit like riding a bicycle, once you got the hang of it you won't unlearn it.

A good spot for training are the white circles at the Sukhumi airport.

[Cibit]

The spring in the warthog is very stiff for making small corrections. Trim is the best way to overcome this till you buy an extension and or remove the spring :)

And practice:thumbup:

[aledmb]

The spring in the warthog is very stiff for making small corrections. Trim is the best way to overcome this till you buy an extension and or remove the spring :)

And practice:thumbup:

 

yeah, i was playing a bit with the curvature instead of the saturation (because saturation limits the input to a certain range) and i feel like having something around 20 for both pitch and roll makes it a lot easier to keep a stable hover.

 

it was a totally different game after that.

 

i wonder how it will change the cyclic for forward flight, though... but hovering precision is way more important, right?

 

also, what would be the minimum size for an extension to be effective... i've seen the mfg extensions that are 7.5cm, 10cm and 12cm... in my case, i'm currently restricted to desk use, so probably 7.5cm will be the best for me.

[Cibit]

I have a 15cm extension centre mounted on a wheelstand pro. After years of flying with a desk mounted joystick the ergonomics of a center mounted stick was excellent and saves my shoulder from an unnatural angle :) Now when I first get into the huey I trim back and left and then never have to trim again as the extension allows the stick to stay where I place it countering the spring forces. My extension came from Sahaj https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=120997

[Holton181]

oh, i think i don't have the skills to keep those very small adjustments, but maybe i need to invest a few more hours into it.

Best is if you can fly her with only a few fingers on the stick and small, gentle finger and hand movements. Not really your arm when hovering.

First thing you should do, in my opinion, is to remove the centering spring. I believe there are tutorial videos how to do it. Secondly, just slightly lower priority than the spring, get an extension.

[BlacleyCole]

Fam put out a pub on learning to fly helos get it read it it will help you understand that the Huey has four not three controls and what each does and doesn’t do. It’s like a three sided triangle the controls are throttle little used with the Huey thanks to the governor, the collective for increasing and decreasing lift the cyclic for horizontal movement and the pedals for orientation of the fuselage. Any change in one of the three later controls affects the other two.

[aledmb]

First thing you should do, in my opinion, is to remove the centering spring. I believe there are tutorial videos how to do it.

 

is that possible for the cougar?

[FragBum]

If you ditch the center detent and springs and add some resistance to movement of the cyclic you do not need to trim. You put the cyclic to the position that balances the heli. The Huey will float like a boat to a degree but the "big waves" are likely you over correcting you corrections. ;)

 

See Holton181 's post absolutely recommend that and even a collective. I would say at first don't fixate on hovering on a dime find a wide open area and just get a feel for correcting but the kicker here is not to over correct. At first don't look at the ground close up it tends to magnify the movement of the aircraft which you will naturally over correct. AKA pilot induced oscillation!

 

If you drift off station don't try to return to station in one move think whats required and add small corrections.

 

I tend to just blip the cyclic in the direction of correction 3 fingers only (actually fly that way too) after a while you'll get this "less input is more control" you should be thinking a couple of seconds ahead of now.

 

If you want to fab a cheap cyclic you could try,.. This is a WIP

[Dino Might]

Like in AAR, when you are trying to hover and start drifting, just work to stop the drift. After you've arrested the drift, then add input to try and reposition back to where you were (if so desired).

 

Remember that from a stable position, everything you put in (control-wise), you have to take back out (usually with opposite control input) - this comes from my 60S pilot officemate when I would ask him loads of "how-to" questions with the helos.

[aledmb]

thanks for the great input, guys!

 

@Dino i suppose i already understand what is needed and i can actually do it, but with the stock cougar stick it's just a very difficult task (even more for a beginner)... the spring is too stiff and there's a lot of play near the center position... adding some 20 points to the curvature of each axis made a whole lot of difference and i'm now able to sail over much nicer waves with my boat... still lots of practice needed to keep it stationary for more than a few seconds, but i'm already able to walk around the airfield and place it more or less where i want... it's a totally different game now that i have some room to play with the cyclic.

 

@FragBum i don't think i have the skills for that... would love to have the springs removed from my cougar, but i guess i'm just stuck with it for now.

 

@Cibit i'm getting an extension as soon as possible... i guess i'll go with a 10cm one for a start and see if that makes it any better... the MFG extensions allow you to combine them, so i can always upgrade to 20cm if i see fit.

[Holton181]

is that possible for the cougar?

To be honest I thought it was the same as for the Warthog (don't own any of these). Did a search but couldn't find any spring removal tutorials specific for the Cougar. Hopefully somebody around here can help you further, it's really not a good thing to have a strong centering spring and detent when flying helicopters.

[aledmb]

To be honest I thought it was the same as for the Warthog (don't own any of these). Did a search but couldn't find any spring removal tutorials specific for the Cougar. Hopefully somebody around here can help you further, it's really not a good thing to have a strong centering spring and detent when flying helicopters.

 

yeah, it's awful... i knew something was odd after just a few minutes trying to hold a hover.

 

this is my second session after making the center a bit softer with +20 curvature.

 

now i can see that practice will yield good results in no time.

 

[FragBum]

I wound not recommend using curvature on cyclic (X and Y) but instead use saturation.

 

reason being that curvature gives you and odd non linear change to the response across the range of cyclic input where as saturation acts on the entire curve response reducing the sensitivity but keeps the response linear across the range of cyclic input.

 

Side question whats a Logitech 3d pro worth in your country?

 

Very easy to remove the center detent on those, I'm not saying there great but if cheap enough might be worth a shot to give you a feel for having no center detent.

[aledmb]

I wound not recommend using curvature on cyclic (X and Y) but instead use saturation.

 

reason being that curvature gives you and odd non linear change to the response across the range of cyclic input where as saturation acts on the entire curve response reducing the sensitivity but keeps the response linear across the range of cyclic input.

 

yeah, i will be going down in the curvature until almost linear... i wouldn't like to reduce saturation because i don't want to fly trimmed all the time... but i may exchange some curvature for saturation in the next few days. ;)

 

Side question whats a Logitech 3d pro worth in your country?

 

Very easy to remove the center detent on those, I'm not saying there great but if cheap enough might be worth a shot to give you a feel for having no center detent.

 

it's not cheap in Brasil, actually... i'll put that money towards an upgrade to a warthog in the future... for now, i'm stuck with the cougar. :cry:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Some good tips here, especially the ones about attitude control.

 

I'd like to add one more in particular: always do your hovering and approaches directly into wind when possible, it makes things much easier. If you're practising without wind you may actually find it's helpful to add some (transitioning from forward flight into a hover with a headwind can really make things easier).

 

I'd also suggest even if a steady hover is what you're aiming for, don't sit there for 10mins+ constantly trying to hover as you'll get tired and/or frustrated. I'd recommend flying circuits with brief hover practice in between.

 

Working towards a smooth transition from forward flight into the hover is a particularly good exercise in my opinion, and is something you want to improve on anyway! Some feedback on your approach in your original post: you actually start off well, as you have a nice shallow approach which is a good way to start out. What went wrong is you pulled back on the stick too aggressively, and you did it too early. Aim to come to a stop just as you get down to hover height. Also, gradually bleed off speed, especially as you enter the hover. This will help stop that nasty yaw you got.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[aledmb]

Some good tips here, especially the ones about attitude control.

 

I'd like to add one more in particular: always do your hovering and approaches directly into wind when possible, it makes things much easier. If you're practising without wind you may actually find it's helpful to add some (transitioning from forward flight into a hover with a headwind can really make things easier).

 

I'd also suggest even if a steady hover is what you're aiming for, don't sit there for 10mins+ constantly trying to hover as you'll get tired and/or frustrated. I'd recommend flying circuits with brief hover practice in between.

 

Working towards a smooth transition from forward flight into the hover is a particularly good exercise in my opinion, and is something you want to improve on anyway! Some feedback on your approach in your original post: you actually start off well, as you have a nice shallow approach which is a good way to start out. What went wrong is you pulled back on the stick too aggressively, and you did it too early. Aim to come to a stop just as you get down to hover height. Also, gradually bleed off speed, especially as you enter the hover. This will help stop that nasty yaw you got.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

yeah, i went too hot in the final few meters and the change in collective threw the nose to the right... i'm much more aware of this now after a few days practicing.

 

as for the tip on practicing circuits, that's exactly what i'm going to do next... after i figured out the best settings for my stick, now i have to work on the transitions.

 

thanks for the input!

[Cibit]

What went wrong is you pulled back on the stick too aggressively, and you did it too early.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

To refine this part a bit, pull a bit of collective as this will raise the pitch of your nose to flare and then lower it so the power increase does not begin an ascent. But levels off the ship without to much input on the cyclic. Once you change the attitude of the ship with collective then hold it with the cyclic

[aledmb]

To refine this part a bit, pull a bit of collective as this will raise the pitch of your nose to flare and then lower it so the power increase does not begin an ascent. But levels off the ship without to much input on the cyclic. Once you change the attitude of the ship with collective then hold it with the cyclic

 

exactly... and a bit of left pedal :)

[Cibit]

TBH I don't need to input any pedal as it is literally a blip of lift to change the attitude. Once your past 40 knots there is a need to increase collective a lot and then I make the pedal adjustments to keep straight. :thumbup:

[aledmb]

TBH I don't need to input any pedal as it is literally a blip of lift to change the attitude. Once your past 40 knots there is a need to increase collective a lot and then I make the pedal adjustments to keep straight. :thumbup:

 

oh, i get it. ;)