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New FM and inertia dampening


nrgized
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Whats changed:

The new flight model removed almost all pitch and roll inertia. This has been confirmed by Polychop themselves and so is not a matter of question.

 

Pitch and roll inertia has very strong dampening in the new FM.

 

Old FM:

Pitch and roll had very high inertia. It can reasonably be said that the inertia was probably too high.

 

New FM:

Pitch and roll have little to no inertia. Control inputs feel very robotic.

 

Inertia under the new FM is also inconsistent. Where sometimes it will exhibit slightly more falloff while the same maneuver commanded moments later will exhibit none.

 

Right command inputs differ from left command inputs.

 

Polychop feedback:

What I would appreciate from Polychop is more feedback on the matter then they have released.

 

In particular more detailed information than "pilots gave it an OK".

 

A few topics that I think would be appreciated may include.

 

  • What is the roll rate and dampening of the flight model.

  • How did the testers and pilots evaluate the flight model.

  • What type of flying was performed.

  • What type of maneuvers were performed.

It is important to know how the FM is evaluated.

 

If FM changes are only being evaluated under very benin conditions that may be room for improvement.

 

Final thoughts:

If you are someone that leisurely flys the Gazelle the new FM changes might not be as noticable.

 

Smooth coordinated turns don't exhibit many of the inertia dampening issues.

 

On the other hand if you abuse the Gazelle for everything that its capable of then the new FM is clearly evident. The sort of flying where you are mentally preparing for the next 5 control inputs and also compensating for the previous 5.

 

My
series, twitch is down atm, is just that sort of flying.

 

To those that want to provide their thoughts/videos in this post.

 

I ask that you please make sure control input overlays are on in any videos.

 

That you confine maneuvers to flying that is not lazy Sunday R44 flights. Complex chains of command inputs are where you notice the dampening the most.

 

Demonstration flights:

Each recorded video and corresponding track demonstrate how the new inertia dampening affects a specific maneuver.

 

A Dropbox link has been provided to download each videos individual track both
and in the Youtube description.

 

1) Was a combination of videos below and thus excluded

 

2) Multiple command inputs and cessation of inputs resulting in immediate locking of attitude.

 

 

3) Maintaining a direction of flight and yawing the aircraft. Upwards pitch halting immediately.

 

 

4) Spinning around maintaining a single direction of flight while releasing controls results in an immediate nose down maneuver.

 

 

5) Light to medium right stick inputs result in a continued roll in the aircraft.

 

 

6) Something good to end it with

 

 

7) Strong right stick inputs lock up controls, reducing collective returns control of aircraft

 

At 3:15 is the best example in this test flight.


Edited by nrgized
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I noticed a tendency for uncommanded pitch downs. Attitude, as OP demonstrated, is locked in the instant pilot input ceases - exept not for pitch down in many cases.

 

I haven't really figgured out under which circumstances this happens. I fly straight and level, well trimmed, hands free(!). Then any tiny(est) inputs some sort of destabilize the helo and she pitches down - up to maybe 70-80 degrees. Note: stick is always centered (trimmed position), maybe +-1-2 % deflection.

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Added new video #7.

 

Strong right stick inputs lock up controls, reducing collective returns control of aircraft

 

Im a bit puzzled. I don't have the time to watch all the videos but run the last.

 

So what I have seen is:

 

1:55 full right Input, aircraft starting to bank

1:56 release right Input and beginning left input

1:57 helicopter reacts

1:58 helicopter is flying straight

 

You did a right 90° turn and banked straight again in 3 seconds. Pretty good for a helicopter don't you think so? This is no X-Wing. Maybe I understand something wrong since I'm no native speaker but what had this to do with the collective after all?


Edited by FSKRipper

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Im a bit puzzled. I don't have the time to watch all the videos but run the last.

 

So what I have seen is:

 

1:55 full right Input, aircraft starting to bank

1:56 release right Input and beginning left input

1:57 helicopter reacts

1:58 helicopter is flying straight

 

You did a right 90° turn and banked straight again in 3 seconds. Pretty good for a helicopter don't you think so? This is no X-Wing. Maybe I understand something wrong since I'm no native speaker but what had this to do with the collective after all?

Watch it starting at 3:15. When deflecting the cyclic right, the helo reactis immediately. But when he deflects the stick then far left, it takes some moments until the attitude changes. In the case of min. 3:15, it takes several seconds. That does indeed look odd, imo.

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Interesting, you seem to use a lot more cyclic than I do, but I'm not a pilot or anything. :D

 

Not on topic


Edited by FragBum
Not on topic

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Watch it starting at 3:15. When deflecting the cyclic right, the helo reactis immediately. But when he deflects the stick then far left, it takes some moments until the attitude changes. In the case of min. 3:15, it takes several seconds. That does indeed look odd, imo.

 

 

If it only occurs during let's say every second maneuver I would not blame the FM.

 

I attached a track doing this stuff twice with perfect instant reaction by the helicopter.

 

Maybe OP you check your DCS version and afterwards your control setup?

Gazelle.trk

i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat

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#7 is very easy to reproduce. It only happens over 3G, in both directions, less pronounced in a left turn.

 

I'd wager it's more in the direction of feature than bug.

 

Have checked my track in Tacview and was not able to exceed 1,3 G during a level roll to the right with only the use of the cyclic so please tell me how you get over 3G.

 

Anyways, due to this literature:

 

Cyclic & Collective

More Art & Science of Flying Helicopters

by Shawn Coyle

 

most helicopters are limited to 3G, in special cases 3,5 so why should I fly in an envelope that is not possible at all?

Tacview-20180318-154631-DCS-Gazelle.trk.zip.zip


Edited by FSKRipper

i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat

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Have checked my track in Tacview and was not able to exceed 1,3 G during a level roll to the right with only the use of the cyclic so please tell me how you get over 3G.

 

My primary method was to roll to the right/left and pull the stick back, 3-4G is easily achieved between 150-200kph

 

That's correct. And these limitations are implemented.

 

Nicolas

 

I know it used to be but it does up to 6G quite comfortably right now, another potential bug there then.

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My primary method was to roll to the right/left and pull the stick back, 3-4G is easily achieved between 150-200kph

 

Thx for the clarification. Another problem by the inconsistent tests of the OP. During #7 1:55 he never pushed the stick back to increase load.

 

And thanks dimitriov for looking into it :thumbup:

i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat

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Thx for the clarification. Another problem by the inconsistent tests of the OP. During #7 1:55 he never pushed the stick back to increase load.

 

And thanks dimitriov for looking into it :thumbup:

 

you pick the one time he does not pull back on the stick and ignore the 3-4 times he does pull back on the stick.

 

which wont win you many arguments.

 

cherry picking results is the antithesis of the scientific method.

 

you have to explain why the outlier exists.. before you can shoot down the rule informed by the other results.

 

it looks like the controls get stuck, because at that point the rotors should depart the aircraft :)

and they don't.. so it eventually gives you back control.

 

if you are pulling over 3g.

My Rig: i7 4930k 4.5Ghz, 16GB DDR3 2400, 2x SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

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