Raptors pwned!!

[Anytime]

Got your attention, just by the international date line, apparently the whole squadron lost all systems except the flight controls, luckily! Somebody was using the wrong calendar / time package :)

 

>> 25 Years from development to deployment, the F-22 Raptor is the most advanced fighting machine in the air. It was no match for a computer glitch that left six of them high above the pacific ocean, deaf, dumb, and blind as they headed to their first deployment. So what happened? We turn to a man that's at home in the cockpit. Retired Air Force General Don Shepperd. Let me set the scene, Don. These F-22s, headed from the Air Force base in Hawaii to an Air Force base in Japan. They were approaching the international date line, pick it up from there.

 

>> You got it right. You want everything to go right with the frontline fighter. $125, 135 Million a copy. The F-22 raptor is our frontline fighter, air defense, air superiority, and it can drop bombs. It is stealthy and fast. You want it to go right. On the international deployment to the pacific, it didn't. At the international date line, whoops. All systems dumped. When i say all systems I mean all systems, navigation, part of the communications, fuel systems, and they were -- they could have been in real trouble. They were with their tankers. The tankers -- tried to reset their systems. Couldn't get them reset. Tankers brought them back to Hawaii. This could have been real serious. Certainly could have been real serious if the weather had been bad. Turned out okay. Fixed in 48 hours. It was a computer glitch in the millions of lines of code; somebody made an error in a couple lines of the code and everything goes.

 

>> This is almost like the feared Y2K problem that happened to these aircraft. We should point out, the computer problems in 2000. The computers absolutely went absolutely haywire and became useless?

 

>> Absolutely. When you think of airplanes from the old days, with cables and that type of thing and connects between the sticks and the yokes and the controls -- not that way anymore. Everything is by computer. When your computers go the airplanes go. You have multiple systems. When they all dump at the same time, you can be in real trouble. Luckily this turned out okay.

 

>> What would have happened if these brand-new $120 million F-22s had been going into battle?

 

>> You would have been in real trouble in the middle of combat. The good thing is we found this out. Any time -- before, you know, before we get into combat with an airplane like this. Any time you introduce a new airplane, you are going to find glitches, and you are going to find things that go wrong. It happens in our civilian airliners. You don't hear much about it. These things absolutely happen. And luckily had time we found out about it before combat. We got it fixed with tiger teams in about 48 hours and the airplanes were flying again, and completed the deployment. This could have been real serious in combat.

 

>> You had these advanced air -- not just superiority but air supremacy fighters in there, up there in the air, above the Pacific Ocean, not much more sophisticated than a Cessna 152 with a jet engine?

 

>> You got it. They are on a 15-hour flight from Hawaii to Okinawa. When all their systems dumped, they needed help. Had they gotten separated from their tankers or weather gotten bad they had no reference and no communications or navigation. They would have turned around and could have found the Hawaiian Islands. If the weather had been bad on approach there could have been real trouble. You get refueling from your tankers and you don't run -- you don't get yourself where you run out of fuel.

[nscode]

Systems dumped? So now it's "kernel dumped" now, not "Illegal operation"? :D

 

Nice to see that US is going with open source :)

[OldFrankHog]

Hehe someone wrote a couple too much zero's :smartass:

[VMFA117_Poko]

Good reading. Good they didnt lost and fly to Kamchatka by mistake. Russian MiG-31s would eat the blind Raptors.

[Aeroscout]

>> You had these advanced air -- not just superiority but air supremacy fighters in there, up there in the air, above the Pacific Ocean, not much more sophisticated than a Cessna 152 with a jet engine?

 

lol

 

I heard about this entire insident in an Aviation Week magazien i got. Kinda embarissing for the F-22s and the people that programed their computers. too bad. and like they said, good thing it didnt happen in combat.

[3Sqn_Fudd]

To quote the greatest cartoon ever... "And now we know... and knowing is half the battle" lol

[GGTharos]

Good reading. Good they didnt lost and fly to Kamchatka by mistake. Russian MiG-31s would eat the blind Raptors.

 

How? They'd never know they were there. ;)

[GGTharos]

In any case, this sounds so incredibly unlikely (but certainly possible!) that there's such a single/common point of failure on such a sophisticated real-time system.

 

But, we've seen this before in software engineering - a case study used quite often is the Arianne 5 rocket launch ... look it up some time if you feel like it :D

[Pilotasso]

oh noes... here it comes again! :D

[Force_Feedback]

Here we go again... :(

 

For F-15 merrikan brainwashed ones: F-22 rules, will rule, and is good value for money

 

For people brainwashed by other goverments: F-22 might be the best plane, might not, thing is it will never see action against potent adversaries, if it will, go get iodine pills.

[GGTharos]

 

For F-15 merrikan

 

 

... you just looked like DeathAngelBR for a moment there.

[VMFA117_Poko]

How? They'd never know they were there. ;)

If You mean EWR to scramble fighters - You right, they wouldnt. But MiG-31 itself is a different story. It has ZBI-16 Zaslon - radar with phase scanning made excpecially for intercepting B1B Bombers.

 

But that's not the point :P.

[GGTharos]

If You mean EWR to scramble fighters - You right, they wouldnt. But MiG-31 itself is a different story. It has ZBI-16 Zaslon - radar with phase scanning made excpecially for intercepting B1B Bombers.

 

But that's not the point :P.

 

What is the point? An F-22 isn't a B-1B ;) Even Zalson will have huge trouble with it ... whether it uses a PESA or mechanically scanned array matters not ;)

 

They wouldn't know it was there until it landed in someone's back-yard in Siberia! O.o

[VMFA117_Poko]

What is the point? An F-22 isn't a B-1B ;) Even Zalson will have huge trouble with it ... whether it uses a PESA or mechanically scanned array matters not ;)

 

They wouldn't know it was there until it landed in someone's back-yard in Siberia! O.o

I dont need to tell that with stealth technology of aircraft, there is counter-developing of radar systems in progress and believe me Russians know how to it right. Also must add that it is faster, lower price and easier (... let's say) to work under EWR technology than an aircraft.

 

That is why I believe USAF way of thinking is a mistake. Too high price for a short temporary advance.

 

The point is F22 isnt totally invinsible but harder to find and every day this advance is shrinking.

[GGTharos]

I think you fail to account for the 'stealth against current and projected radars' fact. The MiG-31 won't be finding any Raptors, no matter how much you wish it to do so.

 

That advantage isn't shrinking quite as fast as you think. THe Russians know how to do what right - defy the laws of Physics? Fire Control radars must by necessity use certain frequencies - the Raptors are 'tuned' to be stealth to those. There's no getting around that.

 

I dont need to tell that with stealth technology of aircraft, there is counter-developing of radar systems in progress and believe me Russians know how to it right. Also must add that it is faster, lower price and easier (... let's say) to work under EWR technology than an aircraft.

 

That is why I believe USAF way of thinking is a mistake. Too high price for a short temporary advance.

 

The point is F22 isnt totally invinsible but harder to find and every day this advance is shrinking.

[AlexHunter]

What is the point? An F-22 isn't a B-1B ;) Even Zalson will have huge trouble with it ... whether it uses a PESA or mechanically scanned array matters not ;)

 

They wouldn't know it was there until it landed in someone's back-yard in Siberia! O.o

 

Covering "Zaslon" Sees the winged rocket for 60-70 kilometres ;), at modernized MIG-31 covering force in two times farther sees and in a group utillizing communication of data of "Kogan" can fine contest with hindrances, summarizing information from radars of the group (there are 4 airplanes in Group)

[Pilotasso]

B-1B isnt the stealth airplane it used to be, it has other defenses too to complement low RCS. BEcause by todays RCS standards B-1B (about 1m^2 frontaly) is low but surely not undetectable. Without any other means of defense RCS alone wouldnt stop a Modern fighter from shooting at it at all.

 

Back in the 80's when B-1B's were "hot" Look down capability was a novelty and the lancers low RCS was enough for Radars of that generation, specialy the ones on the East.

[GGTharos]

Yes, AlexHunter, and the F-22 can do the same. So? ;)

[GGTharos]

B-1B isnt the stealth airplane it used to be, it has other defenses too to complement low RCS. BEcause by todays RCS standards B-1B is low but surely not udnetectable. Without any other means of defense RCS alone wouldnt stop a Modern fighter from shooting at it at all.

 

Yep. It basically has a 'fighter RCS' instead of a 'B52 RCS' ... it isn't stealth.

[S77th-GOYA]

My highly classified aircraft capabilities can beat up your highly classified aircraft capabilities. :prop: :harhar:

[GGTharos]

My highly classified aircraft capabilities can beat up your highly classified aircraft capabilities. :prop: :harhar:

 

My classified aircraft capabilities are more classified than yours, so they will win! ;)

[Maverick-90]

>At the international date line, whoops. All systems dumped.<

reminds me somehow of this....

:D:D

[CoNa]

I allways wondered where the microsoft logo is situated in these aircrafts.

And now we know they forgot the most important buttons, next to the eject....ctrl+alt+delete. Will it be implemented in the newer Raptor F-22.1 version?

Sorry... could not help my self ;-)

[3Sqn_Fudd]

it will never see action against potent adversaries, if it will, go get iodine pills.

 

QFT!!! ..... It's all a playland of scenarios....History gents.... Fulda Gap had more relevance to German hookers than battlefield planning... lets hope it stays that way...

[S77th-GOYA]

more relevance to German hookers

 

Anybody got the drag coefficient on them? :smartass: