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F-20 Tigershark


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I see that DCS has the F-5 Tiger II as an add on module which I think is cool but I would have rather had the F-20 Tigershark. The F-20 has avionics similar to the F-16 and F/A-18 and a more powerful engine. The F-20 was never sold to the Unites States military or any other Air Forces of the world. I would think that all the information, data, and flight model would be declassified and be available for creation of a module for DCS.

 

 

Please give this some serious consideration. I realize that the F/A-18C is going to be released sometime in the spring 2018.

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F-20 was powered by F404-100. Same powerplant as in F/A-18C/D that ED is developing for DCS. So at least there is model and performance envelope for engine of would be F-20 module. But I doubt there will be one. It was single development prototype as was the ultimate F-5 branch off, the X-29.

DCS development ecosystem shuns experimental and development types. Closest exception is SU-2T and SU-25TM. KA-50 was built in low numbers but it was serial production and was used in combat in Chechnya.

Though there is a Iranian knock off type HESA Saegeh with twin vert. stabilizers. Though there is a possibility that in addition to making new airframes, they refurbished olf F-5A/B/E sold to Shah Of Iran, and replaced single vrt. stabilizer with twin canted design, mimicking F/A-18.

 

IMHO ED would be better served by developing F-16C Block50/52 module.

I think that DCS community really needs a high fidelity, PFM, ASM, module of Gen. 4 or Gen 4.5 primarily Air Air single seat platform. Hopefully F/A-18C will satisfy that need. I do not own Mirage2000C module. Thus far all high fidelity sim modules are on strike aircraft. F-5E is daylight WVR fighter with weak radar and two Sidewinders. Mig-21bis is a fantastic module, I love it, but it is late 1960's-1970's variant. A relatively inexperienced DCS user in FC3 F-15C can kill AI MIG-21 in 1V2, without ever resorting to AIM-9 or guns. AIM-120B/C will do.

I definitely need to get M2000C, and Harrier.

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I think just because it was not sold to anyone it's hard to have some serious information about it so i don't think it will be an official module.

 

3 fully combat capable production models were produced to showcase the aircraaft. F20A in its given confirguratuion was ready to be put in mass production if they had found export customers for it.

 

and yes there is quite fair bit of information on it. ( including most importantly an actual Flight / Utility manual)

 

 

 

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/usa/northrop/f-20tigershark/ntm-1f-20a-1-northtrop-f-20a-utility-flight-manual.html

 

 

http://www.thecid.com/f20a/f20radar.htm

 

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/50854206/APG-67-Multimode-Radar

 

 

this would certainly be far more interesting than a Iconic aircraft that everyones already familiar with and proably already play in that "other sim"

 

doesnt have to be ED. ID totally buy a F20 made by a 3rd party.


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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F-20 was powered by F404-100. Same powerplant as in F/A-18C/D that ED is developing for DCS. So at least there is model and performance envelope for engine of would be F-20 module.

 

 

actually the F/A18C lot 15 up uses the F404-402 engines. the F404-100 engines were the ones used on the F/A18A/B and early C lots


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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My source was Wikipedia. Obviously it is not perfect. However the main core of the engine is F404. The mounts are standardized across F/A-18 A/B/C/D airframes, correct? So variations of the engines could be used with appropriate depot level mods. The Hornet community must be tickled pink. It appears that our current POTUS is having a bromance mancrush on F/A-18 Advanced Super Hornet. So Navy and USMC may get few squadrons of that sexy bird. Time will tell.

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The F-20 represents a interesting opportunity for DCS as a platform. As has been stated already, the Tigershark was (for all intents and purposes) a complete and combat ready aircraft. It is only because of the military procurement bureaucracy that it never really saw service. Its inclusion in DCS could potentially open the doors for more combat ready but never really mass-produced aircraft to make their appearance in the future.

 

Since DCS is not really beholden to any specific theater, conflict, or era of air warfare, they have the opportunity to explore aircraft that COULD have seen conflict but never did. The Tigershark is a great example of this. It was essentially a little F-16 and since it was aimed at the export market as well, it could be used by a variety of DCS's included nations in hypothetical scenarios.

 

This aircraft never saw service but maybe the DCS version of it could be a way to celebrate that clever aircraft in another way.


Edited by statrekmike
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Personally, I'd love to fly an F-20. To be able to fly the F-16's rival that never was, in a fully detailed sim would be pretty damn cool. I'm sure all of the information for its parts and avionics would be available, but I also doubt it would be possible since we don't know much about it, especially compared to many of the aircraft in modules we have now.

 

Even though we know the performance of its individual parts, how they all come together is a different story. Are detailed performance stats even available for this thing?

There's also not exactly any pilots around to explain how it flew, and we all know that pilot input plays a crucial role in nailing these flight models.


Edited by KCferrari

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There are many other aircraft which actually reached production and were used that should be made before any development effort is put into this imo.

 

 

I can see where you are coming from and I agree that there are a lot of in-service aircraft that would be very good in DCS but at the same time, that list is always going to be large. DCS modules take years to make and there are only so many developers making them at any given time. There is never going to be a point where the list of "needed" aircraft ends and "would be nice" aircraft begins.

 

As I said before, DCS is in a interesting place because it is not beholden to a particular theater, era, or conflict. A third party or ED itself does not really need to go very far to justify just about any aircraft at this point. They don't really follow any sort of "master list" of required aircraft that they need to go through before experimenting with other, more niche aircraft. In reality, the third parties and even ED themselves are going to make what is interesting to them and we should want it that way because if they are interested in the aircraft (any aircraft), the module will be better for it.

 

If ED or a third party were to get excited about making a F-20, I would want them to do so because there is really no reason for them not to do it. We only benefit in the end.

 

I mean. In the end, where is the point where ED or a third party could start experimenting with aircraft like the F-20? Some will say that they need to do a F-16 first and when that is done, now we need to do a F-104, F-100, F-105, MiG-23, MiG-25, F-106, A-6, F-8, and the list can go on and on and on again.

 

The player-generated list of "required" aircraft in DCS will never end. There is never going to be a point where they are done and can move on to stuff that never saw service. Why bother even following that list to begin with if it means you can never really branch out when a completely viable and interesting aircraft (like the F-20) presents itself as a opportunity.

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I'm sorry to break this to you, but outside of a mod you're never going to see an experimental aircraft like the F-20 in DCS. The information of its systems and performance are not available to a level that would satisfy ED. There isn't even a photo of an actual F-20 cockpit out there as far as I can find. There are plenty of marketing photos showing a twin MFD cockpit mockup with a big UFC and HUD but there are no photos showing the cockpit as was fitted to the actual prototype aircraft.

 

Also I don't think you quite realise the monetary investment in making a module for DCS. They require either a lot of money or a lot of time and usually both, as such it doesn't make sense for developers to produce aircraft unless they know will sell. Now don't misunderstand me, I like the F-20, You like the F-20... But I know there are a lot of people out there who know most combat aircraft that have never heard of it. As such its hardly a guaranteed seller unlike pretty much any of the other 3rd or 4th gen fighter aircraft. At the end of the day, for 3rd party developers, making modules for DCS is a business proposition as well as a labour of love. The sales projections have to make sense for it to be worth the massive initial investment.

 

ED have spent millions developing the Hornet over the past few years and though while I expect an F-20 would be a good deal less expensive than that you cannot simply throw these aircraft together quickly, easily or cheaply and end up with a high fidelity simulation.


Edited by Deano87
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There isn't even a photo of an actual F-20 cockpit out there as far as I can find. There are plenty of marketing photos showing a twin MFD cockpit mockup with a big UFC and HUD but there are no photos showing the cockpit as was fitted to the actual prototype aircraft.

 

 

 

Well there is this video.

 


Edited by aileron
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Well there is this video.

 

 

Alright, I admit I hadn't seen that, and it is indeed cool. But thats still a far cry from having detailed operations manuals available and having hundreds of pilots to call on for testing like with actual production aircraft.

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Alright, I admit I hadn't seen that, and it is indeed cool. But thats still a far cry from having detailed operations manuals available and having hundreds of pilots to call on for testing like with actual production aircraft.

 

 

 

il just requote myself

 

3 fully combat capable production models were produced to showcase the aircraaft. F20A in its given confirguratuion was ready to be put in mass production if they had found export customers for it.

 

and yes there is quite fair bit of information on it. ( including most importantly an actual Flight/ Utility manual)

 

 

 

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/usa/northrop/f-20tigershark/ntm-1f-20a-1-northtrop-f-20a-utility-flight-manual.html

 

 

http://www.thecid.com/f20a/f20radar.htm

 

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/50854206/APG-67-Multimode-Radar

 

[/Quote]

 

 

given we have something like the Su25T ( yes its FC3, but find barely any data on that) or even M2000C from razbam ( albiet not prtoype they relied on Soviet reports to fill in Lots blanks, given huge lack of official declassified data) it seems to me in comparison the F20A is a viable module. Especially when there is a 3rd party interested in doing a Ho229 V4. A blueprint that never flew.

 

 

F20A is quite feasible all things considered.


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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Alright, I admit I hadn't seen that, and it is indeed cool. But thats still a far cry from having detailed operations manuals available and having hundreds of pilots to call on for testing like with actual production aircraft.

 

I'm actually in your camp on this... though I'm starting to wonder. In the other thread on the F20... I stated that because it was proprietary its unlikely we would get enough data.

 

I don't program sims... so have no idea what it would really take to do this and what is needed. But yea... not a lot of pilots to draw from.

 

Regardless... I'm just gonna stay out of this from now on. Maybe we will see it.

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I had a love for the F-20 like most people of my generation but it was never in service so as much as I loved the aircraft I would personally rather that ED and its third parties stick to aircraft that were in service.

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