Flight model not great...

[blast]

I dont know what is going on since the last update of the M2000 but even if the behavior in dog fight has been improved, now the flight model is not as stable as it was before when flying normally or diving to drop bombs. We always have to use the autopilot or to trim up/down like crazy to stabilize it. Is Razbam aware about it? Are they going to correct this issue?

[jojo]

You already had a correct answer the first time you asked this question:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3379554&postcount=82

[myHelljumper]

I will add that you are wrong an that the flight model is great :).

[jaguara5]

No issue. Above 300 kts the plane is trimmed to maintain 1G.

Below that its AoA trimmed. So you have to trim the aircraft by yourself.

There are 2 options 1) manually trimming with the hat switch on the stick.

2) Use the autopilot / autopilot disengage button (the aircraft is designed to be flown this way). You activate the autopilot, if you want to make a turn press the AP disengage button (in the real stick it's a trigger in the front side that is designed to be depressed everytime the pilot graps the stick, you have to map it to your hotas), release the AP button and the plane is automatically trimmed for that speed configuration.

[myHelljumper]

No issue. Above 300 kts the plane is G trimmed.

Below that its AoA trimmed. So you have to trim the aircraft by yourself.

 

Fixed it for you, it make more sense like this ;).

[Sceptre]

the plane flies like a dream for me. not sure what you mean, perhaps your stick doesn't have enough deadzone/curve? maybe post a track with this issue and people can help

[sunski34]

When <300 kts, manual trimming is not simple because of too large step of increase/decrease when pressing trimming hat. That is my feeling.

[jojo]

When <300 kts, manual trimming is not simple because of too large step of increase/decrease when pressing trimming hat. That is my feeling.

 

Have you tried in DCS 2.5 ?

[blast]

jojo

You already had a correct answer the first time you asked this question:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...4&postcount=82

My original post was lost into a vast conversation about different aspects of the m2000. Then I wanted to start a separated thread to not have just a simple answer like this.

 

myHellijumper

I will add that you are wrong an that the flight model is great .

All taste are in nature!

 

sceptre

the plane flies like a dream for me. not sure what you mean, perhaps your stick doesn't have enough deadzone/curve? maybe post a track with this issue and people can help

Good suggestion but deadzone/curves for my joystick are set correctly. I have the m2000 for one and half year now and what i described never happened before: I constantly need to trim or use the autopilot especially just after take off or during landing, or when diving for target bombing. Which is annoying especially for such a modern plane in my opinion. To give a comparison, now the m2000 react like an su27 where I have to trim to stabilize it. On the other hand the F15 is auto trimmed and react much better (like the m2000 before itslast update).

 

jaguara5

There are 2 options1) manually trimming with the hat switch on the stick. 2) Use the autopilot

I knew that and its exactly what I reproach to this new flight model. Before the last update the M2000 was auto trimmed and there was no need to trim like an old Sukhoi.

 

In the end I don't understand why a regression like this is considered as an improvement of the flight model.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Because is how the real Mirage is. Asking for autotrim on the Mirage is not realistic.

[Winterz]

FM is good. The Mirage is meant to be flown using the autopilot. (& trim idd)

[blast]

Because is how the real Mirage is. Asking for autotrim on the Mirage is not realistic.

I was waiting for that answer! How do you know the real mirage fly this way?

[mvsgas]

I wish we all could come to an agreement.

If you have flown any of the specific aircraft within DCS or if you are or where involve on the design or maintenance of such aircraft. If you are willing to provide evidence of this as well. If you can provide information saying: "I have flow x amount of hours, etc." Then, sure tell me about the flight model.

For those with the experience; Would you agree that every person may have a different option and that if pilot "A" and "B" had both flown aircraft "Y" they may have contradicting opinions on it?

 

The rest of us, the ones that have not flown an (insert aircraft here) You may have an opinion, but it is just that. Stop trying to change DCS to match your opinion based on whatever experience or believe you have. Every day, every aircraft, an non have flown in a those aircraft to know either.

 

Please! Just stop.

 

I can't wait for the F-14/18 to come out so we can get all the experts telling us how those flight models are also bad.

Edited February 4, 2018 by mvsgas

[Esac_mirmidon]

Because people with more knowledge than my, more info, access to manuals, and conversations with real french pilots said so.

 

But if you disagree feel free to argue here about auto trim on the Mirage, and FM in general, and please support your claims with more than your feelings or personal preferences.

[myHelljumper]

Here :

 

https://www.avialogs.com/images/photos/docs/129/1879/preview/1879-p48-large.jpg

 

This comes from the only manual available on the internet.

 

You can read that under 300kts the stick is commanding the AoA. Say neutral trim is 5° AoA and you fly at a speed that require 14° AoA you will need to trim the aircraft for that 14° AoA.

 

If you can find somewhere that the mirage has auto trim then please share it with us. But as far as we know, current implementation is correct.

[tflash]

Discussions about realism are not really relevant, for me the most important is how it flies in the sim. And I must say it flies very well in the sim! When the updated FM came out I also found it strange as I had to move the stick much more than before. But actually it allows very precise flying and indeed just put the autopilot on and configure a button on your stick for the autopilot standby and you're done!

[blast]

Here :

 

https://www.avialogs.com/images/photos/docs/129/1879/preview/1879-p48-large.jpg

 

This comes from the only manual available on the internet.

 

You can read that under 300kts the stick is commanding the AoA. Say neutral trim is 5° AoA and you fly at a speed that require 14° AoA you will need to trim the aircraft for that 14° AoA.

 

If you can find somewhere that the mirage has auto trim then please share it with us. But as far as we know, current implementation is correct.

 

I don't understand how you can conclude from this document that the m2000c is not auto trim. The technical specifications you provided are not even mentioned in that document! For me it doesn't explain enough the m2000C behavior in details. That's why Razbam has more freedom to develop the features of the m2000c, like he did with the D2M sensor in which he made something acceptable for the community. Remember?

 

But in the end, if the majority of you are happy to not have the auto-trim like we had on the previous version, fine... Its a game after all and not a true science. I'm just disappointed to see such a regression in the flight model.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Please find info about the auto trim to help Razbam understand the FM.

[blast]

Please find info about the auto trim to help Razbam understand the FM.

Since it was already implemented in the previous version there is nothing to explain, he already know.

[Esac_mirmidon]

That explain why they have changed it. Thanks

[blast]

That explain why they have changed it. Thanks

makes no sense what you say sorry.

[jojo]

In fact the current FM isn't a regression. Flight refueling is easier now (once properly trimmed), at least to my taste.

[blast]

In fact the current FM isn't a regression. Flight refueling is easier now (once properly trimmed), at least to my taste.

I haven't tried the air refueling yet with the new flight model. But i did land, take-off and dive for bombing, and in this 3 configurations i find the previous flight model way much better (since there was no need to trim). It was reacting like a modern fly-by-wire.

Im surprise that people are not talking about this fact.

[mvsgas]

... i find the previous flight model way much better (since there was no need to trim). It was reacting like a modern fly-by-wire.

Im surprise that people are not talking about this fact.

 

FBW require trim like many other aircraft. It depends on the aircraft the reason for the trim. F-16 and F-117 both needed trim on certain flight conditions.

I am not expert, is this a FBW aircraft?

What is the pilot doing at 0:10, 1:41, 2:13, 6:46, 6:51

 

@ 1:27

 

F-16 block 40/42, USAF

[ATTACH]177958[/ATTACH]

Edited February 4, 2018 by mvsgas

[jojo]

I can understand this is confusing to learn a new way to fly on the same plane.

 

But again, on landing once you're trimmed for 14 degrees AoA, landing is a piece of cake.

You can even use AP ON to do that, adjust flight path with trim command, and disconnect for flare.