Windows Vista: The longest suicide letter...

[Guest IguanaKing]

Looks like a George Orwell novel, but 23 years in the future. If they want to keep people from copying stuff, that's fine, but when the combination of computer, HD monitor, BlueRay drive, BlueRay disk, and Vista won't even let you play the content on all those things you paid s**tloads of cash for...that's going too far. Its about fair use in accordance with the EULA. I guess maybe they forgot that Sony Music has already been sued for this, and their opponents won. Just to head off the inevitable "StarForce does this too" argument...no, it is NOT the same thing. A movie is something which should be viewable from the media it is on, in any compatible player...it is NOT software which can be installed on a hard drive. StarForce protected games ARE computer software meant for INSTALLATION on one computer only, they are not the same as a DVD. Like someone already said, measures like MicroShaft's recent incarnation are only going to encourage piracy. The guy who can't watch Blue Ray disks on the setup he paid 1000's of dollars for, with that capability in mind, only to find out he can't...is going to be happy to pay a discounted price to the pirate who makes it possible for him to get what he is paying for. Oh well...so much for Freaky Bill's BS about the future, seamless integration between home entertainment and the PC. :mad:

[Wild.Bill.Kelso]

When was the last Windows release where performance was increased from it's predecessor with current gen apps?

 

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft, but I'd say some of you are being a bit too stubborn. Vista just needs time to settle in just like XP did.

 

That being said, I haven't had the time to thoroughly read the OP's links. I'm not big on HD content on my computer at the moment either, but if this Vista content protection business really has the far reaching ramifications you guys are talking about, well, :doh:.

I agree. I'm waiting a long time for the dust to settle, just like I did for XP. If most of this stuff is this big of a real issue, MS will probably have to change something.

[TucksonSonny]

When was the last Windows release where performance was increased from it's predecessor with current gen apps?

 

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft, but I'd say some of you are being a bit too stubborn. Vista just needs time to settle in just like XP did.

 

That being said, I haven't had the time to thoroughly read the OP's links. I'm not big on HD content on my computer at the moment either, but if this Vista content protection business really has the far reaching ramifications you guys are talking about, well, :doh:.

 

Imagine you have just spend $ 4000 for that top quality HD 1080p (1900x1080res) plasmascreen and you try to connect this stuff with your $ 5000 Area-51 supercomputer and that stupid Vista is doing a downsize to about 800x600 or even lower of your HD movie (that you own on Blue-ray or whatever format) because M$ think that you will try to copy the source!

 

Also M$ has kind of a new EULA (You don’t own the windows license any longer but you just pay for the service for a certain period of time)

 

Hell WTF! :D

[peterj]

Imagine you have just spend $ 4000 for that top quality HD 1080p (1900x1080res) plasmascreen and you try to connect this stuff with your $ 5000 Area-51 supercomputer and that stupid Vista is doing a downsize to about 800x600 or even lower of your HD movie (that you own on Blue-ray or whatever format) because M$ think that you will try to copy the source!

 

Also M$ has kind of a new EULA (You don’t own the windows license any longer but you just pay for the service for a certain period of time)

 

Hell WTF! :D

 

If you spend that money and intend to play protected content, maybe you should make sure that it's HDCP compliant? :)

 

But yes for those of us that have an older HD-tv, it will be a problem.

[Prophet]

I see a lawsuit also. Heck there was one recently where the courts ruled you had the right to back-up and make copies of media you bought.

 

I see HDCP being cracked soon anyways, all it takes is for 1 motivated person with the skills to get fed up just enough.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I see a lawsuit also. Heck there was one recently where the courts ruled you had the right to back-up and make copies of media you bought.

 

Yup, the EULAs of most audio and video media allow for the production of one backup copy of the original content for personal use only. Now, that EULA may no longer be true, so I guess that'll be the loophole M$ and the entertainment industry use...but again...nobody is even talking about copying the discs, just viewing them in all of their BlueRay glory. So, I think Freaky Bill is once again going to be leaving the DOJ courtroom with his a** in a sling. Not that it would matter to a guy with such a high net worth, just like it didn't last time.

[chris2802]

Thats what you get for an 'upgrade', otherwise get the full version and it wont be a problem.

 

Well I suppose thats not AS bad, but it still seems with all the limitations cropping up with vista that we're taking a step backwards as far as functionality goes. It's a shame game devs switched from openGL to DirectX, if everything was still ogl i could keep xp indefinately!

 

-Chris

[Prophet]

Yup, the EULAs of most audio and video media allow for the production of one backup copy of the original content for personal use only. Now, that EULA may no longer be true, so I guess that'll be the loophole M$ and the entertainment industry use...but again...nobody is even talking about copying the discs, just viewing them in all of their BlueRay glory. So, I think Freaky Bill is once again going to be leaving the DOJ courtroom with his a** in a sling. Not that it would matter to a guy with such a high net worth, just like it didn't last time.

 

Well if he did go to court, they would have to show intent. If its not intentional, which I doubt it, then I doubt much will happen. The intent is that all devices need to be HDCP compliant to view copy protected media.

[bflagg]

..all this was predicted a few years back...

 

M$ got pressure from hollywood/big music to do this because and decided to try to position itself to make some $$ from it while doing so....

Quite probably M$ is also getting a few bucks for doing so... (but this is a guess)

 

I hope this fails miserable.. but I just don't see it...

 

Most of us here..really do understand the ramifications here.. but for the rest of the population(s).... they just don't care if they're being "lead about" or not and just won't get it, until it's too late.

[JonTex]

..all this was predicted a few years back...

 

M$ got pressure from hollywood/big music to do this because and decided to try to position itself to make some $$ from it while doing so....

Quite probably M$ is also getting a few bucks for doing so... (but this is a guess)

 

I hope this fails miserable.. but I just don't see it...

 

Most of us here..really do understand the ramifications here.. but for the rest of the population(s).... they just don't care if they're being "lead about" or not and just won't get it, until it's too late.

 

totally agree with you bflagg. I was thinking that people seem very oblivious to what this means. Most people I know dont even want to hear all the technical advice I have to give um they lose interest within the first 30 seconds. I guess ignorance is bliss. :joystick:

[skinners]

Some corporations view consumers as a bunch of dumbshits, and that's exactly how we get treated, as dumbshits.

[Witchking]

I have been using vista for quite a while. I noticed that I can no longer go back to xp. Vista has some neat touches which keep me coming back. The aero interface is perfect...never gets old. Perfect. I find it faster than xp. good enough for me.

[Cdr.Instigator]

Wow.. brought back from the dead.. 7 months since last post..

 

I'm glad Vista works for you. I on the other hand will wait long past the bugs are worked out.

[Witchking]

lol! I just saw the first post and then posted...lol! didn't notice the date. ;) Someone else brought it from the abyss though..not me. :p

[Groove]

Starforce, is something like making holiday on Mallorca.

 

Let me explain:

 

Almost every German ( and im sure British too ) was at least once in his live on Mallorca. But almost everybody denies it, because its basically simply drinking and nothing else :D

 

So Starforce is like:

 

"I wont use it because i heard it will eat my CD-DOM !!!!1". Strangly enough i dont know ANYBODY with any SF related hardware problems. But i bet all the SF whiners know couple of people with SF crushed hardware....

 

Its time to get over it :D

[Yeniceri]

Starforce, is something like making holiday on Mallorca.

 

Let me explain:

 

Almost every German ( and im sure British too ) was at least once in his live on Mallorca. But almost everybody denies it, because its basically simply drinking and nothing else :D

 

So Starforce is like:

 

"I wont use it because i heard it will eat my CD-DOM !!!!1". Strangly enough i dont know ANYBODY with any SF related hardware problems. But i bet all the SF whiners know couple of people with SF crushed hardware....

 

Its time to get over it :D

 

That was a clever and funny post :)

[Troffmeister]

about Majorca - no dude - some of us actually went there for the sun , the beach and to relax and have a nice family holiday - drinking only came into it , at night to cool down , and have a few pints of cider with the meal , and to chill before bedtime - like 3 pints max all night - plus you have ice cream etc

 

so i am glad to say no mallorca / majorca - pronounced - MADGE JORKA ! is not just about drinking !

 

re VISTA - yep its has bad gaming compatibilities - every uk pc mag re gaming - says leave alone - for a few years until fixed etc

 

:-)

[Troffmeister]

re vista , when someome produces a list of all the pc games past and present , that run under vista without hassles , then i would change over - everything i have read in magazines and on gaming web forums is vista negative - in terms of incompatibilities trying to get games to run etc

 

my new pc on thursday will be vista ready in terms of 3d card , ram - cpu etc - but the reason i am sticking with xp is the gaming compatibility issue - right or wrong ?

[Groove]

Troffmeister, install both OS and be happy.

 

I use Vista for Dx10 games only.

 

Evrything else i do is on XP

[Troffmeister]

well as you know - dx10 may well run on xp soon - its being worked on by some web coder guys

 

i have 1 dx9 / 10 game - Lost Planet - and i will have cysis when it comes which will be dx9/10 too

 

so vista and dx10 right now is no biggee to have - some games developers eg valve - the half life 2 people have actually surveyed their customer hardware base via steam - and found like 6% i think had vista - they have said basically fook vista and dx10 - they are not going to code for dx10 vista - and also they have publically said - that dx10 can run on xp - and that the vista dx10 tie together by microsoft is a sick joke hurting the pc games industry / environment - thats pretty hard and truthful talk i feel !

 

as i said every uk pc gaming magazine has said basically - don't upgrade to vista wait a year or more etc !

 

as i said before i can only believe what i read , and take the appropriate guidance based on the info and opinions i am presented with

 

so for me xp yes - vista no thanks - as i said i am happy to be proved / shown wrong re vista )

[WhiskeyRomeo]

re vista , when someome produces a list of all the pc games past and present , that run under vista without hassles , then i would change over

This list has games, plus all other programs that might be of interest.

http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List

The wiki is compiled by Vista users and updated fairly often. It lists games/programs in 3 categories:

-> Works

-> Has problems but they can be solved / minor unsolved

-> Heavy Problems, Currently Incompatible

 

Like any wiki it's only as accurate as the individuals contributing. Some have the ability to research all the options (available program patchs, work arounds, higher versions that work, etc) and skill using the Vista Program Compatibility Wizard and compatibility tools. Sometimes people have listed programs / games as having problems only to have others come along with updated details on how to get the program running under vista. And of course there are games & programs that haven't been listed just because there is no one using that particular software among those that contribute to the wiki. So if you see your games & programs on the problem list now keep checking back. Those problem lists keep getting smaller. It also pays to check the websites & support forums for your games / programs because that info is usually more accurate and up-to-date. One common trend is for software developers not to make Vista patches for older programs because they can generate income pushing people toward newer versions of the program.

[WhiskeyRomeo]

they have said basically fook vista and dx10 - they are not going to code for dx10 vista - and also they have publically said - that dx10 can run on xp

Im pretty sure Valve didnt say anything like that. They did chide MS for making DX10 not able to run on XP.

 

Since a lot of gamers "feel" the same why Troffmeister feels - and "know" what he knows - its no great surprise Vista has been slow gaining traction in the gaming community. The good news is that Valve games run well under Vista, and Valve will have its games supporting XP and Vista for the foreseeable future.

 

The Steam Stats shows Vista up to about 7% of users but of that only 2.3% actually have a DX10 GPU installed.

And only 3.6% of users have a multi-monitor setup.

Only 1.16% of users have SLI/CF systems!

16% use a widescreen monitor.

Almost 7% still use DX7 video cards.

 

Can anyone spot the trends?

[Troffmeister]

my info came from www.bluesnews.com - a daily read for me - re the valve / hl2 / vista dx10 issue

 

thanks for the compatibility link - i have bookmarked will read with interest )

[Prophet]

People made the same complaints from Win 3.11 to Win95.

[Troffmeister]

yep as a caveat - it has been said that what was said about winxp at first , kind of now applies to vista - i think this is the rationale behind the advice of the uk gaming magazines , to leave vista alone until its sorted out more - re patches etc

 

if dx10 does remain vista only - and new games become dx10 only say in 2 years time - then we will have no choice but to install vista - and this is / was probably the grand microsoft long range plan / strategy - these guys are not exactly thick when it comes to money making schemes etc !

 

also bear in mind games development cycles tend to be 18 months to 2 years or longer !!