Comments from an Eagle pilot

[hitman]

also he does not seems to know the difference between:

there's and theirs

and also

there and their....

 

My professor in English has pointed this out in class last week that only 1 in 5 ppl can actually do that correctly. And Ill even 1 up you on that....

 

they're

their

there

[Varry]

lol editted my previous post since i noticed that too, lol

[CrazyAggie05]

The problem I realy have with the eagle is the g-loc. I was out pulling 6.5 g's sustained the other day (in real life not the game) and I can handle that just fine. The E modle pilot I was flying with was telling me that pulling a few more is no big deal once you are used to it, and you aren't pulling more than what we were doing for very long. You are only going to pull 8-9 g's for a few seconds. In the LO Ealge, you black out so easy. My vision doesnt even fade at 6.5 sustained in the T-38. In the LO Eagle 5 g's is about all you can take. It seems like the 27 and Mig are different.

[STRIKER]

I think the overall point is that you dont have to be a real fighter pilot to even notice how bad the F15 flight model sucks to the real thing nor an avionics specialist or figure out how bad and undermodeled its avionics is to the real thing either. But hey, here is for hoping we get a better aircraft in the future.:thumbup:

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup, you can get LockOn Gold at CompUSA. As far as attacking his military record goes, being an Eagle driver 16 years after his discharge from the Army is hardly what I would call "multi-tasking". There would have been plenty of time for him to commission in the AF and become a pilot. Spelling errors, proof-reading errors? Yes, that's it!!! That means he's a fake for sure! :sleep:

 

Jeez, I've never seen such desperation to lynch somebody just because he dared to criticize the game.:disgust:

[GGTharos]

Use reduced G's. They are more realistic.

It is my understanding that the record for sustaining 9G's without G-Loc is 110sec at this point (mind you this is a *record*). I was led to believe that sustaining 30sec of 9G at a time is reasonable.

 

As for the MiG and Flanker - the 'pilot model' is the same in terms of sustaining G's, but those aircraft like slower, lower-G dogfights. That's why. The way to fight an Eagle is 350-450kts at 6g+ loading. You -cannot- do this in LO because of the 'pilot model' and because everyone thinks that 'realistic g' is realistic. And it is!

For some drunk guy off the street who's not practicing AGSM, has NO training, and isn't wearing a G-suit.

 

ED's G-model is 'generally good', in that if you were to graph it it would likely resemble reality ... it just resembles reality for the WRONG PERSON. THe values need to be shifted up to make it realistic.

[D-Scythe]

That guy is a retard and I smell a lot of bullshit.

 

First he says he bought that game in CompUSA or something, patched to 1.02 and HAS LATEST FLAMMING CLIFFS patch. Now wtf is that ? The only way you can get flamming cliffs is from internet store. And second, if he didnt like the game he bought in store why did he bother ordering FC online ? Oh, and then this talk about SU stealing technology from US. Yeah, right..funny dude. Oh, and saying Jane's F-15 has better FM than Lockon is gross.

 

If he is a pilot then I am an austronaut.

 

Guess there's a chance you're an astronaut then. I'm not saying he is a pilot, but your "proof" is in fact faulty. Lock On Gold included both V1.02 and V1.1 FC.

 

Even if he is a fake, nothing he said was outrageous. The FM for the F-15 is not up to par - for example, there is no evidence (as we have tested) that the F100-PW-220 engines modelled in LOMAC ever produce more than 23 000lbs of thrust.

[tflash]

For some drunk guy off the street who's not practicing AGSM, has NO training, and isn't wearing a G-suit.

 

 

Hey, I'm not drunk! :D

[wsoul2k]

Guess there's a chance you're an astronaut then. I'm not saying he is a pilot, but your "proof" is in fact faulty. Lock On Gold included both V1.02 and V1.1 FC.

 

Even if he is a fake, nothing he said was outrageous. The FM for the F-15 is not up to par - for example, there is no evidence (as we have tested) that the F100-PW-220 engines modelled in LOMAC ever produce more than 23 000lbs of thrust.

 

Well the only thing the botters me is he is saying the BFM for the F-15 is very wrong...and the BFM for the SU is as it should be (or he think it shlould be ) :music_whistling:

 

something like my is bigger then your

 

And remenber any person who try to say the SU is undermodeled in a few seconds later a wave of posts will apear asking him for REAL evidences :)

 

So until some REAL evidence apear to me he is only a boy who wanna a bether toy :joystick:

 

cya

[Groove]

Maybe he can provide ED with accurate flight data for an better F-15 FM !

[MBot]

Well he says he started flying the F-15 in 1983. So his US army special forces dutys must have been part time ;)

[D-Scythe]

Well the only thing the botters me is he is saying the BFM for the F-15 is very wrong...and the BFM for the SU is as it should be (or he think it shlould be ) :music_whistling:

 

So until some REAL evidence apear to me he is only a boy who wanna a bether toy :joystick:

 

cya

 

No, he's right, technically. If you have an F-15 that is underpowered, then you can't really BFM in it the way it's supposed to - which is one of his main points. An underpowered FM would lead to "very wrong" BFM. The evidence is there - Lock On's F100 engines that power the F-15 never produce more than 41 000lbs total.

 

Considering the real F100-PW-220 can *each* produce more than 23 000lbs of thrust depending on altitude and Mach, this is bound to raise some questions.

 

BTW, just for the record, I have doubts this guy is a real Eagle driver too, but I'll reserve judgement.

[Vekkinho]

If you followed the link to original thread you might have noticed that someone mentioned that LO is developed from Flanker (as we all know) and that IRL emphasis in airplane sale during the LO development was Su-27.

 

That's even more obvious now in FC when we have a chance to fly AFM Su-25, plane that flew during Afghan war and was used in Chechnya war. Th Later was happening during FC development and FC is just showcasing Frogs.

 

Now we'll have Ka-50...What do you think, are those helos already for sale IRL .

 

I find it hard to believe that ED get all their finance from us (LO buyers and users). There must be some kind of an advertising money in those games.

 

F-15 pilot states poor F-15 FM and weapon capability in LO. That's true indeed...I never used F-15 constantly...to be more precise, I just took it for a spin, didn't like it and gave up on it. I said too many times so far that I haven't even tried any combat nor tested weapon systems of F-15 in LO. I just observed it's maneuvering capability and flight performance.

 

I experience way too many G locks with that bird, like I haven't had anything to eat for a weeks before that flight. That's obviousely wrong and mismodelled. I just can't expect it to be ASF when experiencing all those G things that much. It's turn rate is quite good but there's no emphasis on corner speed. It pulls too many Gs no matter of Smash (250-700kts). It's just not right.

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't agree with conclusion that it's made to be a fish in the barrel for SU-27. Dogfighting F-15 is quite difficult, 30mm bullets hardly pierce Eagle's airframe. It feels like it's armoured.

 

Look at MiG-29! It's poor too...

Roll/turn rate is awful, it's impossible to maintain Gs throughout the turn. For instance: Your TAS is somewhere @ MIGs corner speed and you flyby a bandit head-on. Every pilot reacts now if wants to engage and it's not a defensive maneuver. You'll try maintaining a corner speed by adjusting thrust and keep you G at approx 7. But in LO alpha gauge tends to spike to 7 G and then Fulcrum bleeds smash and soon you won't be able to pull more than 5 Gs. Each and every time you make a turn with Fulcrum it acts like it's a defensive maneuver (break) for avoiding gunfire when you don't think of corner speed but of increasing LOS angle.

 

Other strange issue with MiG-29 is cruising speed. In order of maintaining 0.7Mach in level flight (plane clean, fuel 50%) you'll need a 83% RPM. That's a bull!

 

IRL MiG-29 have Cruise / economy mode switch and engaging it won't allow you more than 80 %RPM. But that's enough for 800km/h smash in level flight at 7000m MSL. Try that in LO! Imposible!

 

Of course, this is a 15$ game but I'm willing to pay even 5X or 6X more if it's properly done.

 

Guy also mentions Jane's F-15 Strike and Falcon as reallistic simulations.

I haven't tried F-15 but I played IAF back in 1998. I liked it and I still have it installed on the other computer with Win'98SE OS. It's really good game but AI is awful. I learned a lot from it.

 

Falcon is a waste of money and time but it's just my opinion. Flying in F4 (AF) is like flying a X Wing vs Tie fighter. I have no idea but the plane goes where you place it. I have no feeling of crosswinds and turbulence, atm ospheric pressure and such with Falcon. This in fact might be a FLCS related result but I don't think so because if you take a look at HUD tape from Thunderbirds demo flights you'll see a lot of vibrations on FPM during high AoA turns. Falcon AFM seems too user friendly coompared to a real thing.

 

Avionics and campaigns rule but we're discussing FMs here, aren't we?!

[Kusch]

Polish MiG-29 pilot comments:

 

"No i poszło, do swojego kalkulatora dołożyłem trochę ram, zostawiłem starą kartę GF4 440 z 64Mb (w najbliższym czasie wymienię) i zainstalowałem Locka.

Pierwsze wrażenia wizualne poprawne, wszystko na swoim miejscu, jednak przełączniki w niewłaściwej - wyłączonej - pozycji, w oczy rzuca się szczegуlnie "Gławnyj". Wskazania IPW-31 zupełnie odmienne od rzeczywistych. Generalnie pozycja pilota w kokpicie zbyt niska, normalnie siedzi się wyżej. Przeszkadza to szczegуlnie przy lądowaniu. Jak na muj gust za duża bezwładność samolotu, "realny" jest bardziej ułożony i chodzi lepiej za ręką, niezależnie jak szybko przechylam go czy wprowadzam na kąty. Myślę, że winne są też ustawienia i joy. Po zdjęciu obrotуw samolot powinien szybciej wytracać prędkość, obroty są generalnie za bardzo "podciągnięte" tj. przy 80 procentach prędkość lotu poziomego powinna wynosić około 500 km/h z tendencją do spadku. To samo dotyczy wypuszczania podwozia, prędkość powinna spadać szybciej.

W zasadzie to tyle."

 

Maybe someone (or Some1) translate this text? I would make this text not very well..

[GGTharos]

"I added some RAM and fired up Lock On.

First impressions; visually everything seems to be in the right place, but, what's very noticeable are a number of switches in the wrong (off) position. In addition, the the IPW-31's readouts are completely different from the real thing (_ed: What is IPW-31?_).

The pilot's position inside the 'pit is too low. In general you sit higher, you can see more - this is particularely annoying during landing.

To my taste, there's not enough control of the aircraft. The real thing has much crisper handling, though I'm sure some set-up and joystick issues compound this.

The RPM is in general overrated. For example, at 80% RPM level flight should be around 500kph with a tendency to slow down.

Same for the landing gear - it doesn't slow down the plane fast enough.

That's all for now."

 

Polish MiG-29 pilot comments:

 

"No i poszło, do swojego kalkulatora dołożyłem trochę ram, zostawiłem starą kartę GF4 440 z 64Mb (w najbliższym czasie wymienię) i zainstalowałem Locka.

Pierwsze wrażenia wizualne poprawne, wszystko na swoim miejscu, jednak przełączniki w niewłaściwej - wyłączonej - pozycji, w oczy rzuca się szczegуlnie "Gławnyj". Wskazania IPW-31 zupełnie odmienne od rzeczywistych. Generalnie pozycja pilota w kokpicie zbyt niska, normalnie siedzi się wyżej. Przeszkadza to szczegуlnie przy lądowaniu. Jak na muj gust za duża bezwładność samolotu, "realny" jest bardziej ułożony i chodzi lepiej za ręką, niezależnie jak szybko przechylam go czy wprowadzam na kąty. Myślę, że winne są też ustawienia i joy. Po zdjęciu obrotуw samolot powinien szybciej wytracać prędkość, obroty są generalnie za bardzo "podciągnięte" tj. przy 80 procentach prędkość lotu poziomego powinna wynosić około 500 km/h z tendencją do spadku. To samo dotyczy wypuszczania podwozia, prędkość powinna spadać szybciej.

W zasadzie to tyle."

 

Maybe someone (or Some1) translate this text? I would make this text not very well..

[Kusch]

Thanks!

 

 

(_ed: What is IPW-31?_)

 

MFD, or better: One Function Display ;)

[some1]

IPW-31 it's the thing located in place where in LO we have "MFD". But in RL it is not Multi Function Display, just as Kush said.

 

This was written by the guy in the middle of this photo, who is the "uncle" of our small Polish community. Do we have to prove that he is a fighter pilot? :)

 

[Kusch]

And "Uncle" aircraft (MiG-29 "77") :)

 

 

 

[CrazyAggie05]

holy crap i just realized how "low: you sit in the cockpit of a -29. (or I guess you could say how "high" the canopy rails are. visibility must suck our the side.

[borchi_2b]

comments from an eagle pilot asd my source

 

dear all guys out there who discusse the eagle performance in lomac.

we all know, that the eagle performance is not the best, but first let me say one thing, even a small dog can kill a bulldog in its own terrain, which simply means, that when you can addapt to the bad performance of the f-15 and aim-120 amramm, than you can kill what ever plane in this game.

i have been in dogfight with 3 other guys of my squad, http://www.vjs-161.de, only guns, which we call "king of the hill", and all 3 got shot down by me, at least 2 of them because the 3rd was an other f-15c which lamed itself and made a pancake on surface. the opposing 2 aircrafts that were left, were 1 mig-29 and 1 su-33. i got both in a very short time, not more than 30 sec for each plane, because both were fighting me. it only depends on our tactics how we can handle the bad eagle.

nevertheless i whish the amraam would performe more realistic, because most of the times we eagles in our squad need 3-5 missiles for one plane, which is no where close to realisim.

the amraam was built to fire and forget, and i know some guys from the RAF Lakenheath England very well who fought over serbia, where the had 4 mig kills, that the amraam is most of the times so accurate, that you shoot one and kill one, and it does not matter what you try to do, at least when you are in combat range , effective range, of the aim-120 amraam.

i am sure, that is what the eagle drivers of RAF Lakenheath also state, that when the amramm is fired on max range, that you have a 50% chance to survive if you are not stupied, thats why a packege fires most of the times 2 - 4 missiles, depends on how many threads.

 

and to avoid any questions about the sorce, the source is real and an existing fact but unfortunatly i have to classiefy it here in this forum, because the source does not want to be mentioned by any names or callsigns, which i highly respect.

 

hope you guys all find it nice to make a collection email and write to eagle dynamics, that they please do a better research on the american fighters, if possible, so that the community of lomac lovers, may be able to get even others to the game! what do you guys think of that?

 

greetings

 

boom boom

[Kuky]

To me this first post (the quote) feels very much like some American pride being "attacked" and this guy (who ever he is) seems to have a go at the, in his (or maybe most American's) opinion, Russian unworthy-fighting-US-uber-Eagle :D

 

I doubt this guy is a real fighter pilot. It's typical "I am better than you" crap.

[p_o_d_2_2]

Still, you have to admit the F-15 has a lot of room for improvement.

[Kuky]

I do agree that there are quite a few things not modeled well in LockOn (as for a fact in every game/sim) and I am very sure there are valid reasons for that.

 

I remember though when I flew IL-2 series for over 3 years, there was much discussion on how the flight models are wrong, gun convergence, etc etc... but on one thing most would agree... and that is that if aircraft differences, advantages and disadvantages are modeled right... it doesn't matter if, say, max speed is 5% off... as long as for all a/c it's 5% off.

 

I doubt you'd ever get accurate avionics and systems and FM's in any SIM simply because there are problems with obtaining highly sensitive data... not to mention, as someone pointed out already, I am sure there is advertising involved by the governent or weapons producers, or armed forces, to promote THEIR aircraft, tanks, weapons... etc. World is full of that.

 

I see F-15 as a good fighting platform... same as any other aircraft in LockOn. I personally like the MiG-29... and some would swear by their Su-27's and 33's how they are the best fighting option... to me I just suck in them... so it's not just the aircraft that's the issue here... many people fly differently... use and expect performance of the aircraft in different way, so to one person particular aircraft is very good, to others it's crap.

 

I still very doubt this guy is a pilot at all... I agree too that his level of literacy is not on pair of what would be expected of fighter pilot of high performance aircraft such as the F-15... and he also seems very emotional in his post... definitely it's his pride as an American that's been hurt... just my observation.

[leafer]

also he does not seems to know the difference between:

there's and theirs

and also

there and their....or they're for that matter

 

For a pilot that shows a big lack of education in his own language, I'm Belgian, and english is like my third language, and even i know this difference...

 

I'm not saying he's a real pilot, in fact, I'm starting to believe he might be a bored employee at CompUSA. Heh. I mean, who goes there anymore when you can go to BestBuy or Fry's.

 

Anyway, those words you mentioned are listed under Frequently Confused Words, in my Essentials of English Grammar book. Go to simhq and you'll see Americans (including Andy Bush) use it's as possessive form. Then instead of than is another one.

 

My grammar sucks just as bad, but I have a good excuse. I'm a high school dropout. lol

[Frostie]

Got to laugh at the way he's decided the Russian birds are pretty much on the ball.:lol: