F-100D Super Sabre ( PLus F100D "Late")

[Northstar98]

I love Third Wire's Strike Fighters series of games. The plane set was exactly what I would want out of any flight sim with so many great aircraft including so many minor variants of them, especially the F-4 and MiG-21. With addons, you can fly almost every significant aircraft from 1950 to 1980, including the entire century series. I can only hope that DCS World will eventually have a somewhat comparable flyable plane set with at least one variant of each aircraft that saw significant production numbers and/or actual combat.

 

This.

 

It's why I love flying the F-14 because it's the closest I can get.

 

I definitely love the different variants (even stock) it extends to weapons and even ships too (and unlike DCS, they're properly named).

[LowRider88]

DCS has focused mainly on the LOMAC time frame / plane set and rightfully so as so many people want the current fighters like the US "teen" series and their MiG-29/Su-27 opponents.

 

But the real fun is from Korea into the 1970s, before everything was digitized, before AMRAAM and the all-aspect IRMs like the legendary AIM-9L.

 

The F-100D would be a great match for the MiG-19 and more importantly a great addition for a future Vietnam oriented plane set. I would love to see it in this game.

 

I love Third Wire's Strike Fighters series of games. The plane set was exactly what I would want out of any flight sim with so many great aircraft including so many minor variants of them, especially the F-4 and MiG-21. With addons, you can fly almost every significant aircraft from 1950 to 1980, including the entire century series. I can only hope that DCS World will eventually have a somewhat comparable flyable plane set with at least one variant of each aircraft that saw significant production numbers and/or actual combat.

 

The upcoming F-8 Crusader is a great step in this direction. The MiG-23MLA is a bit more toward the LOMAC plane set, but still a great addition. With the MiG-21bis having been long available, the absence of the F-4 is my biggest complaint, especially since it is my favorite aircraft of all time.

 

In the mean time, the F-86F/MiG-15bis and F-5E/Mig-21bis are great cold war matchups I love to fly.

 

I would also love to see the early "teen" fighters". The F-15A, F-16A, and F/A-18A are far more interesting to me than the much more capable F-15C, F-16C, and F/A-18C that we have. I enjoy flying the F-14B, but the F-14A should be coming very soon, which is what I would prefer to fly.

 

If DCS can only afford to provide one variant, either the best F-100D that served in Vietnam or the variant that was flying escort missions at the very start would be my choices.

 

Holy cow, I agree with everything you said! :thumbup:

[mkellytx]

How "Not really"?

 

From the wiki article:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch-up

 

"

As the primary causes of the pitch-up problem are due to spanwise flow and more loading at the tips, measures to address these issues can eliminate the problem. In early designs these were typically "add-ons" to an otherwise conventional wing planform, but in modern designs this is part of the overall wing design and normally controlled via the existing high-lift devices.

...

More common solutions to the problem of spanwise flow is the use of a wing fence or the related dogtooth notch on the leading edge of the wing. This disrupts the flow and re-directs it rearward, while also causing the buildup of stagnant air inboard to lower the stall point. This does have an effect on overall airflow on the wing, and is generally not used where the sweep is mild.

To address the problems with spanwise loading, a wider variety of techniques have been used, including dedicated slats or flaps,

...

"

 

The wing platform change for the D was an increase at the wing root and adding wing flaps inboard. Even with that minimum control from the F-100C to F-100D were pretty close to each other.

 

Aircraft Weight / Power off Minimum Control Speed (Stall Speed) / Power on Minimum Control Speed (Stall Speed)

F-100C

25,000 / 137 (131) / 130 (123)

30,000 / 149 (142) / 143 (135)

 

F-100D

24,000 / 134 (124) / 128 (110)

28,000 / 144 (134) / 139 (126)

32,000 / 153 (143) / 148 (136)

 

From 1F-100C-1 and 1F-100D-1

 

MCA isn't much different so tip stall, adverse yaw and pitch up are all still there to make low speed flying challenging. Plenty of D's perished in Saber Dances:

 

https://www.historynet.com/deadly-sabre-dance.htm

 

Also, try using a more authoritative source than Wikipedia. Multiple F-100 dash one's are available online. Many universities have their engineering course materials available online, MIT and Stanford come to mind. Finally, I did spend 5 of my 15 years in the aerospace industry as a flight test engineer, took short courses at USAF TPS and National, before all of that I got an MS in aero with a research focus in flight test. Flight dynamics is a topic I know pretty well.

[LowRider88]

The wing platform change for the D was an increase at the wing root and adding wing flaps inboard. Even with that minimum control from the F-100C to F-100D were pretty close to each other.

 

Aircraft Weight / Power off Minimum Control Speed (Stall Speed) / Power on Minimum Control Speed (Stall Speed)

F-100C

25,000 / 137 (131) / 130 (123)

30,000 / 149 (142) / 143 (135)

 

F-100D

24,000 / 134 (124) / 128 (110)

28,000 / 144 (134) / 139 (126)

32,000 / 153 (143) / 148 (136)

 

From 1F-100C-1 and 1F-100D-1

 

MCA isn't much different so tip stall, adverse yaw and pitch up are all still there to make low speed flying challenging. Plenty of D's perished in Saber Dances:

 

https://www.historynet.com/deadly-sabre-dance.htm

 

Also, try using a more authoritative source than Wikipedia. Multiple F-100 dash one's are available online. Many universities have their engineering course materials available online, MIT and Stanford come to mind. Finally, I did spend 5 of my 15 years in the aerospace industry as a flight test engineer, took short courses at USAF TPS and National, before all of that I got an MS in aero with a research focus in flight test. Flight dynamics is a topic I know pretty well.

 

Good for you.

Is there anything in the wiki article you disagree with?

If not then what is your point if it comes from wiki?

Prove it wrong.

Instead you admit the increase in wing did not solve the sabre dance issue and that C and D models behaved the same at low speed high aoa. So what are you confronting me about then?

[mkellytx]

Good for you.

Is there anything in the wiki article you disagree with?

If not then what is your point if it comes from wiki?

Prove it wrong.

Instead you admit the increase in wing did not solve the sabre dance issue and that C and D models behaved the same at low speed high aoa. So what are you confronting me about then?

 

Just attempting to educate. This incident was an example discussed in the Equations of Motion short course and an example of an adverse lateral directional modes adversely impacting the longitudinal mode. It also served to reinforce the use of a backside technique to control the aircraft. Backside works on both sides of the power curve, frontside technique on the backside can get you killed.

 

No confrontation intended only correcting that the root chord changed not the span from C to D.

 

Getting on topic, it will be great to get one of the century series with such nastiness at hi aoa. It will also be great to fly an aircraft that requires the pilot to be well ahead of the plane and pay careful attention to the throttle setting and stick position lest you depart the aircraft.

[probad]

the nastier the airplane the more fun (in game)

we need all the cold war crazies

[Bob1943]

I incorporated Third Wire's F-100D into some belly cam and gun cam film from the F-100 that I flew in Vietnam during 1970. I was with the 612th TFS at Phan Rang, 35th TFW.

 

I loaded the simulation plane with exactly the same ordinance that I was dropping in the belly cam footage. So, you will see the simulated drop followed by an immediate transition to the actual belly cam footage.

 

Here is the link to the movie that I made:

 

 

There is also a second video on that same Vimeo page that my Dad took of me starting, taxing, and taking off in the F-100 at England AFB in 1971.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Bob1943

[LowRider88]

Just attempting to educate. This incident was an example discussed in the Equations of Motion short course and an example of an adverse lateral directional modes adversely impacting the longitudinal mode. It also served to reinforce the use of a backside technique to control the aircraft. Backside works on both sides of the power curve, frontside technique on the backside can get you killed.

 

No confrontation intended only correcting that the root chord changed not the span from C to D.

 

Getting on topic, it will be great to get one of the century series with such nastiness at hi aoa. It will also be great to fly an aircraft that requires the pilot to be well ahead of the plane and pay careful attention to the throttle setting and stick position lest you depart the aircraft.

 

It would help in the future if you clarified which point (wing increase type/pitch up origins/relevance of high lift devicces) you were refuting in the beginning.

Then we have been in agreement all along, the Sabre Dance is the plane's worse handling attribute and it was never solved with later model enhancements, as these did not include high lift device options.

Thank you for the stall stats.