ASL behaving strange

[Flagrum]

Before the latest patch, the ASL moved to the opposite direction of where you would have to steer the aircraft to. This seems to be fixed now, thank you Zeus!

 

But ... it is still not really working as it should (I suppose). Now, after the patch and after applying the HUD lines quickfix, the ASL moves in the correct direction, but is (and probably also was already before the patch) somehow strangely related to the banking angle.

 

If I follow the ASL with my FPM - and therefore have to bank a bit - the ASL moves further out. So, "chasing" the ASL makes me turn further and quicker away, the more I try.

 

See the screen shot: target is to the left, but I am still supposed to bank right - but will never catch the ASL as I am off target eventually.

If I level out, the ASL moves back in direction to the target and once I am completely level - in case of the example of the screen shot - the ASL coincidences with the target, but ofc left of my flight path.

[Vladinsky]

Looks like it's still attached to the wrong point, it should be perpendicular to the horizon at all roll angles while not leaving the target diamond.

Might be why the release cue is also misaligned.

[Flagrum]

Looks like it's still attached to the wrong point, it should be perpendicular to the horizon at all roll angles while not leaving the target diamond.

Might be why the release cue is also misaligned.

It actually is always perpendicular to the horizon, but yes, if it were connected to the target diamond, it would indicate where to fly to, even if the target disappeared beneath the nose. That would make sense, I think.

[Flagrum]

I would love to see this bug getting some priority ... ;-)

 

Especially when using the TPOD, this issue makes it almost impossible to drop bombs somewhere near the designated target. The added flexibilty of the TPODs gimbals is somewhat nullified if you can not really line up with the target. Any bank angle > a few degrees makes the ASL appear at positions on the HUD that have nothing to do with the actual target. That makes it almost impossible to perform a turn, using the TPOD pipper as cue, in order for a proper line up. You always turn too far ... or have to turn sloooooooooowly, degree by degree ...

 

Please, some love for the ASL cue! :D

[Zeus67]

The ASL bug will be dealt with as soon as possible.

I am collecting all available info, basically you tube videos, to determine how it really works, specially during heavy maneuvers.

[Flagrum]

Thank you Zeus!

 

Granted, I am only an armchair pilot, but after I read through the chapter 2.5.1 AUTO Delivery Mode of the NWP 3-22.5-AV8B Vol.I, I am somewhat confident that the ASL just needs to be attached/go through the designated point cue of the HUD (and stay perpendicular to the horizon, as it is already today. No complicated swinging or swaying of the ASL neccessary - just roll-stabilized.) While this behaviour is not explicitely stated in the manual, it just makes sense, imo. And all pictures depicting an ASL have it all showing it going through the designated target point.

[Pikey]

+1

This bug is interesting, it reminds me of some mirage radar behaviour in an earlier version. It's very characteristic.

[Flagrum]

After the 2.5.2 patch it seems, as if the ASL behaving a bit better now. It is not so finicky anymore to line up properly.

 

 

[edit: take my follow up posting below into account when reading this ... seems that I am wrong in this posting!]

 

 

But ... still ... it seems that there is a dependence on the banking angle of the a/c. The position of the ASL is different at different angles of bank: the steeper the bank, the bigger the distance ASL - Target point.

 

And that relation seems not to be linear - small bank angles produce only tiny derivations, but anything greater than 10°...15° and the ASL is hundreds of meters off and swaying even to the opposite side of the VV (should always be between designated target and VV, no?)

 

I am not sure, if the ASL shall work as a flight director that leads you smoothly to the desired azimuth, which would allow the ASL and designated target to separate (until getting closer). Or if it just points you where the designated target is - i.e. the ASL stays connected to the desig. target all the time.

 

But anyhow,the dependence on the banking angle seems wrong.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Flagrum

[Eagle7907]

ASL behaving strange

 

I agree. It seems any amount of bank while tracking the ASL makes it swing in the opposite direction of bank or incorrectly cue the correction. That makes any corrections by the pilot extremely difficult especially when tracking in close to the target. Further out its easier because you can see target designator diamond. The ASL should always be perpendicular to the horizon and should steer the pilot towards the diamond. The behavior is better, but still not home yet.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Edited May 26, 2018 by Eagle7907

[Flagrum]

I tried it out in the A-10C:

There the ASL is also not fixated at the designated target point and actually behaves similar to the ASL of the AV-8B! That includes also the dependance on the bank angle! Larger angle results in a larger displacement of the ASL, up to the point where it is show on the opposite side of the velocity vector (i.e. tgt - VV - ASL).

 

So my assumptions that

 

a) the ASL location may be depending on the bank angle, and

b) the ASL should always be located between target and velocity vector

 

are seemingly wrong / not necessarily feasible.

 

One thing I did notice though where the AV-8B ASL behaviour still seem to differ significantly from that of the A-10C. The ASL displacement related to the bank angle seems to be limited. It never happened that the ASL swayed to the edge of the HUD just because of the bank angle. It always stayed within maybe 20% of the HUD width away from the designated target point. This limited displacement then was also responsible for a way smoother and easier trackable movement speed of the ASL. Maneuvering did not cause so much swaying left and right and left and right of the ASL.

[Eagle7907]

Yeah you’re right. In my head I was thinking ‘no wind’. That’s the only case where the ASL would be over the target. But both of your examples show the ASL perpendicular with the horizon and doesn’t wildly swing out of view when correcting/tracking to target. How can a pilot properly gauge correction needed when the ASL disappears?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Flagrum]

Yeah you’re right. In my head I was thinking ‘no wind’. That’s the only case where the ASL would be over the target. But both of your examples show the ASL perpendicular with the horizon and doesn’t wildly swing out of view when correcting/tracking to target. How can a pilot properly gauge correction needed when the ASL disappears?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Wind has nothing to do with anything here, I think. When flying level, the ASL actually overlays the target point perfectly in the AV-8B, even with crosswind.

 

 

Also, the ASL does not disappear, but can move to the very edge of the HUD FoV. Depending on your baning angle, that can mean that you onls see a small bit of it, clamped in some corner of the HUD. In the A-10C this effect is much reduced, as the total displacement of the ASL has a maximum which is a good way inside the HUD FoV.

[cmatt425]

The ASL should not move if you bank and keep the VV in the same spot (i.e. no back pressure on the stick). It is almost impossible right now to correct to an ASL from a tip in because as soon as you roll out the ASL moves with the roll. Hopefully it gets fixed, as it should be independent of roll.

[Laro]

*bump*

Please add this to the bugtracker.

[VGlusica]

+1

[Shadow_1stVFW]

The ASL should not move if you bank and keep the VV in the same spot (i.e. no back pressure on the stick). It is almost impossible right now to correct to an ASL from a tip in because as soon as you roll out the ASL moves with the roll. Hopefully it gets fixed, as it should be independent of roll.

Exactly. I'm able to use AUTO delivery rather accurately so long as I can see the target, VVI, and ASL in the same FOV. It's more just flying the the VVI over the actual target. Make a correction, roll out, check the ASL then make another correction. But the ASL does need to be fixed.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[=DECOY=]

This has been fixed and it currently with the internal testing team for review

 

 

THANK YOU for all the help you guys have given on this bug :)

[tea_cypher]

Excellent news decoy, keep the squashing going.

[=DECOY=]

All Fixed :)

 

 

 

 

 

[gabuzomeu]

Yippee! Let's bomb :-)

[Harlikwin]

In the next patch?

[=DECOY=]

In the next patch?

 

Yep :)

[Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson]

Good to show some progress.

 

Good continuation to you

[McVittees]

Awesome!

[jacobs]

Thanks Razbam! =)