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M-2000C or the new AV-8B? And why? Need help deciding


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On my case, I love to study eachplane systems ... and for that on the Harrier you have easily available the real flight manual, while for the Mirage the real manual is in french ... which I cant read. So, for me, the Harrier is more enjoyable :)

 

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Both are great, but the harrier has a broader set of systems, missions and tools. If you are looking for the most interesting plane for your money, i'd reccomend harrier.

 

If you are a fighter pilot however, and mud movers are just targets to you, get the mirage. She's by far the hottest full fat fighter out there. takes some real piloting too, unlike the eagle.

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I would say it depends on what you want to do. If you fancy air-air go for the Mirage, on the other if it's air-ground that you are in the mood for, go for the Harrier. Each platform has its strength and weaknesses. Find what suits you most right now.

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At the moment I would definately recommend the Mirage 2000 as the Harrier is still in a very very early stage with very limited funtionality. Apart from that it's pretty much up to what you're interested in: air to air combat or air to ground. If it's former then I would still recommend the Mirage, if it's the latter I would recommend the Harrier.

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Thanks for the fast responses!

I would love to have a aircraft which I will maybe sometime master and with which I can do multiple things. Air to Ground and Air to Air.

 

I understand that the Harrier CAN Air to Air too - but what makes the Mirage so much better in Air to Air combat? Faster?

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Radar.

 

To expand

 

Also better performance ( speed acceleration and climb) sarh missiles making bvr engagements possible

 

 

 

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A bit odd question due to different nature of both aircrafts. Mirage is a fighter with just a few ground attack capabilities. Harrier, especially the variant that we have is a close support, ground attack plane. Totally two different beasts ;)

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Right now the Harrier is capable of Mav's, rockets, dumb bombs, guns, and Aim-9s. No LGB's at this time. Its very capable as it sits, early access or not. AA refueling and VTOL are both exceptional. The onboard nav system doesn't work yet but you can preplan waypoints for missions in the editor. The majority of radio systems aren't in place but the basics are there.

The Mirage is a good jet but its AG is limited and its AA is close range. The mid range missiles are really only effective 10 or less miles out. You can get a Aim-9 in the Harrier off at half that.

To suggest the Harrier is in the very early stages of development and has limited functionality is a huge stretch.

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Both are great, but the harrier has a broader set of systems, missions and tools. If you are looking for the most interesting plane for your money, i'd reccomend harrier.

 

If you are a fighter pilot however, and mud movers are just targets to you, get the mirage. She's by far the hottest full fat fighter out there. takes some real piloting too, unlike the eagle.

 

 

Harrier may be a better option for air to ground but m2000c also has secondary bombing functions. It's not a strict dedicated a2a like the f15


Edited by Kev2go

 

 

 

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Well, what is your main interest? As said before the Harrier is a strike/CAS aircraft so mainly air-to-ground, with limited Air-to-air capabilities.

 

The Mirage is the opposite, it is a fighter/interceptor with limited air-to-ground capabilities.

 

Are you interested in bombing ground targets, or in dogfighting, intercepts of other aircraft?

 

Apart from that basic decision it boils down to the Mirage being mostly complete and the Harrier in early access, so you may have systems and features getting completed along the road.

Not that the current Harrier isn't fun to play or misses anything absolutely necessary to start learning the ropes.

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The mid range missiles are really only effective 10 or less miles out..

 

Sorry but that is wrong.

 

The Super 530D max range at 20-25kft is 18-22nm, and then the missile clearly have enough energy to reach the target. The mirage Fox 1 missile is competitive with the other plane's Fox 1 missiles.

 

Edit: I have hit maneuvering (fighter) targets up to 25nm so the missile does have a good range.


Edited by myHelljumper

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Sorry but that is wrong.

 

The Super 530D max range at 20-25kft is 18-22nm, and then the missile clearly have enough energy to reach the target. The mirage Fox 1 missile is competitive with the other plane's Fox 1 missiles.

 

 

Having enough energy to reach and being effective are two entirely different things.

Have I had kills at 15 miles, yes. Where they maneuvering to avoid, no. The most effective range for the 530 is within 10 miles. I'd say the same for the Aim-7.

Beyond that, the real point is that you aren't getting an F-15 with Aim-120's. The Mirage is a close range AA combat airframe. Great fun, slightly more effective than an F-5.

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Thanks for the fast responses!

I would love to have a aircraft which I will maybe sometime master and with which I can do multiple things. Air to Ground and Air to Air.

 

I understand that the Harrier CAN Air to Air too - but what makes the Mirage so much better in Air to Air combat? Faster?

There's capability, then there's fitness for purpose. The Harrier has A/A capability, just like the A-10 and Viggen. However, the M-2000C was built from the ground up as a fighter/interceptor, so it has the speed, thrust, radar, and SARH capability to go looking for a fight. Planes that carry sidewinders as the only A/A weapons tend to use them as a last resort for self defense rather than looking for a scrap. Similarly, the M-2000C has the same LGB capability as the Harrier right now (it can drop them and someone else can lase the target), but the Harrier was designed as an attack platform whereas the M-2000C is a fighter with some A/G capability. It depends on what you want.

So .. isnt the harrier just like the A10C with some more ways to start and land but fewer weapons for the ground targets..?

While both are primary CAS planes, the Harrier is a lot faster, but has a shorter endurance. Again, the A-10 was originally intended to provide escort to helicopters in addition to a dedicated CAS role, so it's purposely built to be effective at slow speeds with a long on-station time. instead of on-call CAS, the Harrier is more like ready-alert CAS, so it takes off from its amphib, hits its target, and then can either rearm at a forward base or return to the boat. It also has a minimal SEAD capability with the Sidearm (though it is nice because it automatically locks the biggest threat), and has the speed to keep up with a strike package. It's speed also makes it a better bomb-thrower than the A-10, as it can climb and drop ballistically from standoff range, whereas the A-10 needs the Maverick to be stand-off.

 

Honestly, I love both the M-2000C and the AV-8B. Both are fun to fly, and fun to employ in their intended roles. The M-2000C has a couple years of polish on the Harrier, if this influences your decision.

 

Hope this helps,

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Having enough energy to reach and being effective are two entirely different things.

Have I had kills at 15 miles, yes. Where they maneuvering to avoid, no. The most effective range for the 530 is within 10 miles. I'd say the same for the Aim-7.

 

I think we are not flying the plane the same way then.

 

Most of my Super 530D kills are done from a 10-15nm shot at 20kft

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So .. isnt the harrier just like the A10C with some more ways to start and land but fewer weapons for the ground targets..?

 

This is a very common misconception due to the two MFCD's, TGP, air-to-ground roles. In reality they are very different. Honestly there are very few planes with characteristics like the A-10. Where the Hog will loiter around the battlefield for hours finding and picking off targets with its intuitive sensors and large payload, the harrier will have a set target area in mind, get in, get out, likely winchester after a few passes. The Harrier doesn't have near the fuel efficiency of the A-10 but makes up for it with speed. The Harrier doesn't have near the weapons capacity of the A-10 but makes up for it by being VSTOL capable.

 

I know we don't have our hands on the Hornet yet, but I would say the Harrier is closer to the Hornet than the A-10, at least in terms of how it approaches ground targets.

 

In terms of whether to get the M-2000 or the AV-8B there's two things. One, do you mind early access? Second, do you want to do A2A or A2G? Both are great planes in their respective roles.

 

Also, do not underestimate the VSTOL aspect of the Harrier. It may not seem like much, but it is a pretty awesome experience that I don't see getting old anytime soon.

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do you mind early access?

I'd say both aircraft are still in early access: the Mirage only recently got its proper flight model, and the avionics are what I'd call "place holder" for the proper version :)

That being said, I love both aircraft, for very different reasons :)

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I am slightly in the same situation as you in that I have the Mirage, but have decided to wait for the "soonTM" F18 Hornet.

It is a step beyond Harrier and Mirage in that it is capable in both air to air and air to ground. So if you can wait "A Few More WeeksTM" I suggest you do that.

It has a range of weapons and capabilities not found in any other module.

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So ... I decided to go with the Harrier. From there I maybe learn the A10C (seems simlear.. just more ... complicated (the A10C)), will, in some months, buy and learn the Mirage AND aso will maybe buy the Hornet. If the Hornet gets out early enough I get the Hornet instead of the Mirage.

 

Reason for the Harrier was that I have a friend which is in real pilot training for the german Bundeswehr (army) and loves to fly the helicopter in DCS. I think with the Harrier I can support him more than with the Mirage when he flys around in the huey for some transport and rescue missions.

 

Thank you all for these fast and (some) bug replys! Did not expect that! Great community :-O

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So ... I decided to go with the Harrier. From there I maybe learn the A10C (seems simlear.. just more ... complicated (the A10C)), will, in some months, buy and learn the Mirage AND aso will maybe buy the Hornet. If the Hornet gets out early enough I get the Hornet instead of the Mirage.

 

Reason for the Harrier was that I have a friend which is in real pilot training for the german Bundeswehr (army) and loves to fly the helicopter in DCS. I think with the Harrier I can support him more than with the Mirage when he flys around in the huey for some transport and rescue missions.

 

Thank you all for these fast and (some) bug replys! Did not expect that! Great community :-O

 

They're honestly all good, you should get both. Enjoy!

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Both will be great but...

 

Air to air and little bit of air to ground ---> Mirage

 

Air to ground almost exclusively ---> Harrier (remember you do not have a radar) This is very, very pretty frogfoot, that can hover.

 

Go M2000 she is way more developed i would say pretty much finished.

Av8b is early access. Will be great once finished, but you would not be learning ...more of a guessing.

 

Btw mirage just got new fancy flight model. And it is devious little bird.

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