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Any chance of the AV-8B Harrier II plus?


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Based on everything that I've seen, we do have to keep in mind that RAZBAM hasn't really confirmed they'll make the II+ (though it's fairly likely). Knowing RAZBAM and their update cycle, combined with that of ED's (we still need proper ground radar), I'd wager we could be waiting up to two or so years for a II+ to come out. I mean, I don't think the II+ is as similar to the N/A as people expect. It hasn't even got the same flight performance.

 

And so I wait with excitement, but not the expectation that it'll be coming soon.

 

Aside from being abit heavier I don't see any reason that the aircraft wouldn't behave the same flight wise. The real are of work would be programming all the systems connected with the radar.

 

As such I suspect RAZBAM could model the II+ rather quickly once ED release their ground mapping radar code, as most of the ground work is already done with the AV-8B. And by quickly I mean ~6 months.


Edited by Hummingbird
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I agree with you on how long it would take. That said, what will RAZBAM's priorities be? I'm not 100% in the loop on this, but it's my understanding that the M-2000C wasn't even properly finished until very recently. Before they attempt at modelling the II+, they'll probably release another module (or at least do them concurrently, which would slow both of course).

 

I mentioned the flight performance as it was probably the simplest issue, illustrating just how far the differences go. Re-tuning of the flight model, extensive cockpit logic updates... at least they won't have to touch the DMT, hah.

 

This is my question: does the effort of modelling the II+ compensate for the perhaps reduced reward? Why shouldn't RAZBAM just make new bespoke modules? Personally I really want them to make the II+, but will it be cost-effective for them to give it to N/A owners for free, or if they charge a large amount for it, will people buy it?

 

I guess I'm just being pessimistically skeptical here. Perhaps the argument could be made that just out of sheer love for the Harrier and the DCS community RAZBAM will make it, and I guess I can't argue with that.


Edited by MrSp33dy123
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IMO if they make it they should charge customers in accordance with how time consuming it was to make, which would automatically mean it would be significantly cheaper than the released AV-8B NA, retailing at perhaps 20-25 dollars. Which seems fair enough to me.

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I don't mind paying a fair price for a good product, and don't care either way.

 

If they make it, I'll be flying it. For me it's that simple.

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IMO if they make it they should charge customers in accordance with how time consuming it was to make, which would automatically mean it would be significantly cheaper than the released AV-8B NA, retailing at perhaps 20-25 dollars. Which seems fair enough to me.

 

That would make sense, but only for the owners of the other module.

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That would make sense, but only for the owners of the other module.

 

I agree, if you already have the AV-8B N/A you can pick up the + version for 50% off otherwise it would be full price.

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That would make sense, but only for the owners of the other module.

 

It should ofcourse only be the price for the people who already own the AV-8B NA, for those who don't own the first one and want both the 20-25 dollars should be added on top to pay for the combined development time.


Edited by Hummingbird
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Why should a module be cheaper for those that own another module? How does this make sense? Has anyone ever bought a car that was cheaper because they already owned a similar model of that car?

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Why should a module be cheaper for those that own another module? How does this make sense?

 

Because if its the same basic aircraft that they already bought, just with some added equipment, then it would be rather unfair to charge the same price once again for some extra content that took much less time to make.

 

In short these should be the purchase options IMO:

 

AV-8B N/A = 60 dollars

AV-8B+ for N/A owners = 20 dollars

 

Combined pack:

AV-8B N/A & AV-8B+ = 80 dollars (60 + 20)


Edited by Hummingbird
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It entirely depends on how much time and effort is required to use the ground radar DCS is developing, if it is simply plug and play with little change then yes it should be what €10-€15 a bit more work, increase the price perhaps... I would be monumentally pissed off if it was ever released as a new aircraft.

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It entirely depends on how much time and effort is required to use the ground radar DCS is developing, if it is simply plug and play with little change then yes it should be what €10-€15 a bit more work, increase the price perhaps... I would be monumentally pissed off if it was ever released as a new aircraft.

 

ED might be the ones who develop how the radars detect and map stuff (i.e. how radar waves are modeled etc), but it will still be the third party devs task to model the actual systems used to operate the radars of their own aircraft.

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Why should a module be cheaper for those that own another module? How does this make sense? Has anyone ever bought a car that was cheaper because they already owned a similar model of that car?

 

Look at it like a DLC for game you already own, perhaps that helps it make more sense. :thumbup:

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  • 1 year later...

There was some mention on the Discord, that maybe once ED gets the hornet radar figured out they might do it since its the same radar.

 

I'd be curious how code portable some of the various parts of the code like the TPOD are. It would make some sense for them to be, and maybe the radar is the same sort of thing.

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  • 11 months later...

I mean I'm not sure how much the avionics differ beyond the obvious no DMT and radar instead and the attendant A/A stuff, and removal of A/G stuff. The FM is likely a bit different due to weight/aerodynamics changes.

 

At a guess it would its own module. But yes several countries like Italy and Spain operated the +, so it might be cool to offer it as module with its own ski-jump carrier(s) at some point.

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I will welcome the AV-8b+, but I am not holding my breath. Most likely very far away. Both the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and the especially the F-15E can keep their current team occupied for years and seems much higher on their list. Until they can do the Plus the current Harrier will be in need for a full overhaul to fully utilize the new DCS 3.0/Vulcan engine anyway.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In the harrier plus, you can use the radar antenna elevation wheel control on the throttle to zoom in and out with the TPOD in HTS mode just like the hornet..

 

Seriously would buy the plus from RAZBAM for that capability alone, never mind the radar, never mind AMRAAMs. :)

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Eagerly awaiting the Plus version as well, reckon it would be a big selling point as it's currently 90% A2G only.

I'm going to go against the grain on this one. My view is that part of the beauty of the AV-8B II N/A is that it really has a specific ground attack role being CAS, CSAR, BAI, and AFAC. There are plenty of other high fidelity modules in DCS that can do it all such as the Hornet and Viper. Do we really need another jack of all trades aircraft to come into an already crowded type of module field? I don't think so. Besides given Razbam already have a long list of other modules to follow after completing the existing three I doubt those wishing for a Plus variant of the Harrier will see it any time soon if at all.

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I'm going to go against the grain on this one. My view is that part of the beauty of the AV-8B II N/A is that it really has a specific ground attack role being CAS, CSAR, BAI, and AFAC. There are plenty of other high fidelity modules in DCS that can do it all such as the Hornet and Viper. Do we really need another jack of all trades aircraft to come into an already crowded type of module field? I don't think so. Besides given Razbam already have a long list of other modules to follow after completing the existing three I doubt those wishing for a Plus variant of the Harrier will see it any time soon if at all.

 

I think we’ll probably see the FRS1 first in any case, but that’s a very USMC attitude. They treat aviation like flying artillery. Other operators see the harrier as much more of a multi role aircraft. It’s true strength is it’s VSTOL basing, and while its very well suited to those mission sets you mentioned, it’s no slouch as a dogfighter either. I’ve seen hornet drivers get spanked by it on several occasions.

 

I think having a jack of all trades that can do VSTOL as well would be very welcome but that’s me.

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8<

 

Do we really need another jack of all trades aircraft to come into an already crowded type of

module field?

 

8<

 

I think this is a big misunderstanding, and maybe ED's fault. Let me explain.

 

The idea that you might go to a catalog of every piece of equipment the US, or any nation for that matter, puts into the field, to plan a mission is absurd, but the standard in DCS. It does not take into account in any way the cost of any piece of equipment or that each side must work with a budget.

 

So every mission has an $8 bil. super-carrier and a slew of F/A-18C's instead of a $200 mil. LHA with Harriers and helos. Why? Because why not; it's only imaginary money.

 

Oh, and put the super-carrier in visible range of the coast so that it's constantly in danger of attack by small craft.

 

If equipment got used the way it is in the real world, then "another jack of all trades" would actually be another special Lego brick for building the building you want. It depends on what you want.

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