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New MIRAGE 2000 Flight Model


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PS for the trim using the Autopilot, do you guys put the AP constantly on and use the AP standby button when you manoevre?

 

Winterz gave you perfect "by the book" answer.

 

I will just add:

landing: 200ft AGL is the latest time to turn it off, but once on AoA = on speed, it's perfectly comfortable to disconnect anf fly the final manually.

 

Once OFF, you can use a HAT to manually trim like any other fighter.

Currently the HAT trim isn't smooth enough IMHO. But it will probably be corrected.

 

Wit the new FM I'm now enjoying air refueling much more than before...and I have never been good at it :joystick: It's fairly easy with this one.

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Edited by jojo

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Im with Hummingbird on this one. Puzzles me this 'have to trim' approach, the logic/concept behind it. Ive yet to feel I had to trim, its always flying straight and level for me (unless uneven load). So what is the idea?

Ive tried AP, and AP standby etc, but it just flies exactly the same to me. Same 'deadzone' in pitch, and still have this very unresponsive pitch down.

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

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What? It was a legitimate question, a question for help, on what am I or we missing.

Im in no way claiming its wrong or right.

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

| MSI Z87-G45 Gaming | i5-4670K @ 4.3Ghz | 32Gb DDR3 1600 | Asus GTX 1070 Strix OC | Samsung 850 Evo 250 & 500Gb | 40" Sony FullHD | Oculus Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick (19.5cm extension) & Throttle | MFG Crosswind | Windows 10 |

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Well, sorry but you were mistaken :)

Each FCS, or rather each FBW system, has its own logic, due to maker's choices.

 

I agree with you. Ever aircraft I worked on with FBW system needed trim (F-16 and F-117) I know because I ask pilots and when I inspected the cockpit, on the trim panel, non where centered, they where always moved one way or the other.


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Jojo already explained it multiple times.

 

 

The nose down ineffectiveness is because IRL the stick has a very short forward travel.

 

Yes we come to the paradoxical point where the realistic modelling comes in conflict with the game hardware. As our sticks have the same displacement nose down as nose up, the actual flight experience we now have is completely strange and in a way not "realistic", since we feel an unresponsiveness that is not present for the real pilot. Not sure we can compensate for that by tweeking the curves. Only solution is a real Mirage stick I guess!

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Yes we come to the paradoxical point where the realistic modelling comes in conflict with the game hardware. As our sticks have the same displacement nose down as nose up, the actual flight experience we now have is completely strange and in a way not "realistic", since we feel an unresponsiveness that is not present for the real pilot. Not sure we can compensate for that by tweeking the curves. Only solution is a real Mirage stick I guess!

 

That's likely the case IMHO because I doubt the real pilots struggle that hard to point the nose down.

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It looks like you don't like to use trim. Indeed you have to trim Su 27 and M-2000. In the case of the M-2000C you especially need to trim below 300kt.

Above 300kt the plane is trimmed for G (it will try to keep constant G load).

Below 300kt the plane is trimmed for AoA (it will try to keep the same AoA)

 

Why unresponsive ? When does the nose "refuse to drop" ?

 

It's still rolling as fast, still sustaining 9G at low altitude and it goes there fast.

If you had custom axes setting think to reset them.

 

I'm fine with trim, my favorite aircraft all need trim.

 

I don't like the Su-27 and now Mirage for two seperate reasons:

 

The Su27 because of the downright ludicrous amount of pitch up with speed it generates; It legitimately feels like I've jumped into a WW1 biplane with a rocket strapped to its tail, that's how hard the FCS amplifies the pitch up with increases in speed on that bird.

 

The Mirage is an entirely different matter, don't feel the need to trim it at all, however with the new update its become weirdly sluggish in pitch and almost refuses to drop its nose, making it very strange and unsatisfying to fly.

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I just did a quick test playing with a setting in Axis Tune and this quickly brings back responsiveness. Tweaking this and maybe adding a curve will help make it feel more like last FM.

 

I just cranked saturation X half way to 50.

 

(M2000 controls/Axis Commands/Pitch Joystk Y/Axis Tune/Saturation X to 50)


Edited by cthulhu68

 

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The axis tuning is very powerful, this is what I used to do to emulate the asymmetric stick throw.

 

 

zm2Tmo7.png?1

 

I remember playing around with that at the initial release, however back then I didn't have the issue with the nose not wanting to drop. But I'll give your curves a try and report back.

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The axis tuning is very powerful, this is what I used to do to emulate the asymmetric stick throw.

 

 

zm2Tmo7.png?1

 

Thanks Vladinsky. So this simulates the shorter fwd pitch throw of the real stick?

 

I'll give it a try when I get home. :thumbup:

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It does, the only concern is that you'll have a large deadzone beyond the maximum deflection because the in game stick will hit the forward stop before your joystick. Only way to get around that is with a force sensing stick or mechanically limiting the joystick forward movement.

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Thanks Vladinsky. So this simulates the shorter fwd pitch throw of the real stick?

 

I'll give it a try when I get home. :thumbup:

 

Yes, the curve pictured would provide maximum input at a lower stick displacement. There would be a large dead area after that. A user curve isn’t really required for that, the X or Y saturation would do the same thing.

 

Edit: Disregard. I was mistaken, correction in this post


Edited by SinusoidDelta
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Yes, the curve pictured would provide maximum input at a lower stick displacement. There would be a large dead area after that. A user curve isn’t really required for that, the X or Y saturation would do the same thing.

 

But wouldn't that amount of saturation limit my aft range of pitch? Or, make it very abrupt?

 

If I understand correctly the physical forward throw of the stick is just a few inches (3 or 4) but the aft movement is much greater (12-14). So you would want to keep aft along the normal linear path and the fwd much more vertical.

 

Just a layman's perception could be right out of whack... :unsure:

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