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AN/ASB-19 Angle Rate Bombing System (ARBS)


QuiGon
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Dumb question: How does the ARBS works (IRL)?

 

More specifically: How does it determine the distance to a locked target and its position in the world and/or relative to the aircraft. These informations are necessary for the weapons employment guidance that the system provides, but I don't quite understand how this works without a laser or radar range finder.

 

The Pocket Guide only says this:

Angle Rate Bombing System (ARBS)

The ARBS is a passive system that provides day and night attack capability by using either reflected light images (TV mode) or reflected laser energy (LST mode).

The angle rate concept allows for a simple system that substitutes mathematical sophistication for hardware complexity.

 

Can someone explain this in more detail?

 

 

Edit: After some more thinking I figured out that it would probably be possible to calculate the targets three dimensional position from the cameras rotation when it keeps the lock on the target while the aircraft is maneuvering. I guess this is what happens here, but what if the aircraft is not maneuvering and is just flying straight at the target in a straight dive? Or am I on a completely wrong path here?


Edited by QuiGon

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Thanks Vatikus! I somehow missed that thread, sorry :doh:

So the key is the angular rate of rotation of LOS to the target. That makes sense. Simple, but effective :thumbup:


Edited by QuiGon

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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Thanks gabuzomeu! So, as long as the aircraft keeps diving straight at the target, as I mentioned in the first post, there is no target solution, because the LOS angle stays the same. The target solution is only available when the LOS angle changes, which it has to as you need to pull up at some point.

Makes sense, thanks!

 

Edit: Why delete? Classified documents I guess?


Edited by QuiGon

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Isnt it the same system thats in the A-4M? A full fidelity A-4 Skyhawk would be the ultimate DCS hotrod! And an awesome opponent for the mighty F-14 over the NTTR (Just add NAS/MCAS Miramar plz!) HAHA!

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Isnt it the same system thats in the A-4M? A full fidelity A-4 Skyhawk would be the ultimate DCS hotrod! And an awesome opponent for the mighty F-14 over the NTTR (Just add NAS/MCAS Miramar plz!) HAHA!

 

Yes, it has been used in the Skyhawk, as you can see in the video ;)

 

And here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ASB-19

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am slightly confused with the implementation of the ARBS in DCS. The TV is either slaved to the velocity vector or perfectly stabilized to any selected and freely slewable point on the ground. There does not seem to be any locking of targets based on contrast. On the other hand the TAC manual talks lengthy about the need to lock on targets based on contrast and it has an entire section about tactical considerations to do so (including recommendations to fall back on alternative delivery methods if no satisfaction lock can be achieved). I understand that DCS has its limits but this seems like a rather significant simplification of the ARBS.

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I am slightly confused with the implementation of the ARBS in DCS. The TV is either slaved to the velocity vector or perfectly stabilized to any selected and freely slewable point on the ground. There does not seem to be any locking of targets based on contrast. On the other hand the TAC manual talks lengthy about the need to lock on targets based on contrast and it has an entire section about tactical considerations to do so (including recommendations to fall back on alternative delivery methods if no satisfaction lock can be achieved). I understand that DCS has its limits but this seems like a rather significant simplification of the ARBS.

 

I agree...

 

And of course, ARBS uses an old analog camera. Not a modern 4K UHD one.

 

Regards!



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Also the ground stabilization of the DMT when not being "locked" on the ground, during slewing, seems greatly simplified. I assume during slewing the DMT should be ground stabilized by using information from the INS and the radar/baro altimeter, deducting slant range by assuming flat terrain and applying trigonometry. Now if you put the DMT on a ridge line on a hill ahead, you can easily see how this is not the case. Put the DMT TV just below the ridge and slew left/right. Observe how it perfectly tracks the ground in the vertical axis. Now move the DMT up slightly, beyond the ridge line and onto terrain many kilometers in the background. Now slew left/right. The vertical tracking immediately changes to perfectly track the new ground again. The ground tracking seems to use game data directly.

 

Now I understand that the ARBS is still subject to changes during the Early Access, so let's see how this develops.

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Check out the quick manual NOTE parts that explain what is implemented and what is in limitation of DCS engine.

 

Example, the tracking that DMT should have (DMT is the camera on nose, ARBS is the calculating system for solution, using DMT camera vector, INS, barometer, radar altitude, speed etc) is possible be so that it doesn't get implemented.

 

The FLIR system hotspots tracker (0-4-8 hotspots) gets very much simplified as DCS doesn't have ways to offer such data, so only a active player or AI ground units gets "hotspotted", but not buildings, bridges etc.

 

The DCS doesn't either currently support the different kind textures and colors for displays, so in reality the panels on Harrier would be green, in DCS they are grey (as are in Su-25T, KA-50 etc). This should change in future, depending ED.

 

 

It would be nice if DMT would get its tracking capability, as that would mean we can lock it on everything that has contrast. This would as well change the way how KA-50, Su-25T and even TGP operates as all those locks on contrast and tracks that shape or contrast until it loses it. This is now not the case.

 

And as the DCS has very limited capability to offer displays (and mirrors) we get superior optics and camera targeting systems that we shouldn't have. This is a problem with TGP, DMT, Shkval and almost everything, where mirrors has lower resolution, angle of view and motion tracking than required for great performance and usability.

 

So if we get the contrast tracking, then we would get "contrast stabilization" so you lock on something with DMT and then the ARBS calculates the correct angle and distance to do releases. As then it would track the contrast what ever height it is, instead a specific "ground".

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Check out the quick manual NOTE parts that explain what is implemented and what is in limitation of DCS engine.

 

Example, the tracking that DMT should have (DMT is the camera on nose, ARBS is the calculating system for solution, using DMT camera vector, INS, barometer, radar altitude, speed etc) is possible be so that it doesn't get implemented.

 

The FLIR system hotspots tracker (0-4-8 hotspots) gets very much simplified as DCS doesn't have ways to offer such data, so only a active player or AI ground units gets "hotspotted", but not buildings, bridges etc.

 

The DCS doesn't either currently support the different kind textures and colors for displays, so in reality the panels on Harrier would be green, in DCS they are grey (as are in Su-25T, KA-50 etc). This should change in future, depending ED.

 

 

It would be nice if DMT would get its tracking capability, as that would mean we can lock it on everything that has contrast. This would as well change the way how KA-50, Su-25T and even TGP operates as all those locks on contrast and tracks that shape or contrast until it loses it. This is now not the case.

 

And as the DCS has very limited capability to offer displays (and mirrors) we get superior optics and camera targeting systems that we shouldn't have. This is a problem with TGP, DMT, Shkval and almost everything, where mirrors has lower resolution, angle of view and motion tracking than required for great performance and usability.

 

So if we get the contrast tracking, then we would get "contrast stabilization" so you lock on something with DMT and then the ARBS calculates the correct angle and distance to do releases. As then it would track the contrast what ever height it is, instead a specific "ground".

 

Lower resolution, analog feel and green tint can be done using shaders. *Another* competitor (not ED) has done it already. So it's totally doable.

 

The Maverick in game follows also a simplified algorithm, yet the behavior is correct - it only locks elements with high contrast, which normally are vehicles and buildings, and doesn't ground-stabilize on random spots on the ground. So don't tell me it's a DCS limitation. It only fuels a justification so that *anything* that requires a minimum afterthought can be left aside.

 

Regards



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How ARBS calculate CCIP, gun and rockets solution? How it possible to calculats it, if target lock is needed? Ccip, gun and rockets sight floating from one point to another, there is no any time for calculating distance for target in moment when ccip/gun/rocket standing still. How it works?

 

Math.

 

 

The ARBS is due to be reworked completely post early access release so I wouldnt read too much into it but indeed its wrong in many ways.

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*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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