New model "AV-8B Harrier II Plus"

[urze]

Because I was curious,I compared the two models with one another.

This is not meant as an proof,all I got is a low-res jepg!

Afer i saw the results I was not a bit wiser.

(my own opinion:the models are from different authors)

See your self:

[SuperKungFu]

I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. I mean why are you so persistent to prove this guy wrong? Has he offended you in any way? If he says it’s his own, then just give him the benefit of the doubt. And for your information, we are not “selfish” because we want this model. There’s not even an fm in the current game right now so why bother having just a 3d model. We encourage people to let them have their hobbies (in this case building 3d models) and if he’s lucky, he could submit it to ED and get their approval. If he did take it from DESPONA, then ED will prove it. As for now, you don’t have his model so you can’t go around yelling he stole it.

[britgliderpilot]

Interesting how your last shot shows them lining up absolutely perfectly except for a few minor (and easily changed) details, like the antenna on the tail and the nose (which he needs to change to make it a B model) and yet you conclude from a few minor details that they are different.

 

Let me ask everyone here this.

 

If you saw these models in another forum and the model I showed was from ED (LOMAC) and I had compared them like this , would you still be claiming they were different. IMHO, the people here are saying they are different because they selfishly want this model in LOMAC, so they take the 'different' side.

 

BTW, the area just below the cockpit is exactly the same in both models, don't look at the colour, that is texturing , look at the polys. The leading edge of the wing is different because again, he is making a B model and that is easily changed. A good thing to look at is shading around the exhausts, it is exactly the same.

 

To the person who asked if I was the original modeller, why does that matter. If this guy is stealing a model from ESPONA does it really matter if I belong to DESPONA. NO It doesn't.

 

I do have a challenge for this guy, make a copy of all meshes , put in same project, make one a wire frame and one solid, make a render from the side , top and front perspectives and post the pics here.

 

I'm by no means an expert, but I've seen shots of 3D modelling in progress where the 3D model is overlaid on a plan of the aircraft in question and it matches exactly.

 

 

Two people using the same drawing and working to the same standard of detail, with outlines exactly matching, would logically come up with models that matched!

 

 

And to correct you on one small point - both versions of this model are the AV-8B. DE-Espona mislabel theirs the AV-813, they must have misread.

 

The Harrier II family covers the AV-8B, the Harrier II Plus, the Harrier GR5,7,9 family, and so forth.

 

The difference isn't the B, it's the Plus.

[urze]

Let me ask everyone here this.

 

If you saw these models in another forum and the model I showed was from ED (LOMAC) and I had compared them like this , would you still be claiming they were different. IMHO, the people here are saying they are different because they selfishly want this model in LOMAC, so they take the 'different' side.

This image proofs only that this image (posted from zealu and me) proofs absolute nothing.Not to mention the bad resolution.

And i belive that the people in this geat Forum still have their own opinion, and they are grownup enough to tell it Sraight to the community. I think its OK when you think the model is not his work - this can be discussed (but I have to say that the way it is done here makes me a littel sad)- but when you start say that "the people here are saying they are different because they selfishly want this model" you are going a bit too far. Of course; I may be wrong.

[p_o_d_2_2]

FeedFish, you made your point, and it seems everyone disagrees with you, so let it go.

[britgliderpilot]

And taking an aircraft from orthographic projections won't allow someone to model all those small details exactly the same. The fuselage, tail etc, YES but not things like the pylons on wings. shadows on the exhausts, shadows inside the intakes (small holes on intakes actually). Those shadows are created when you render the model.

 

I will ask you this question directly and think about it and be honest with yourself, if this wasn't a de-espona model but one from ED and you saw these pics on another forum, would you be defending him , OR would you be saying this was EDs model slightly changed.

 

Such an eventuality is rather unlikely, but I'd like to think I'd respond in the same way regardless of whose model it was ;)

 

 

It's an interesting point regarding the positioning and shaping of 3D shapes not obviously visible on a 3-view, pylons on the wings etc - would it not be possible to find these accurately from sufficiently detailed drawings and photos?

 

Remember, at least one person has done it.

[F l a n k e r]

But the unnatural misalignment of the mesh are different between the models. Look at the tail, at the panel on the fuselage between the tail and the wing and so on.

It is also possible that the initial model is the same, but since no one can prove it, who cares?

[abigor]

I vote to bring this guy (FeedFish, not ESA_Hierro) the reputation: -5. Just for having a very big mouth, or very large fingers in this case :D

 

Didn't you see the Battleship Roma in the previous post ?

For me, that is the proof he is a great modeller. Can you model some like that ? I think that your only reason to talk about him in this way is envy :thumbup:

[abigor]

It was only a joke man :megalol:

 

Please, relax yourseflf, and think about the way you are talking because everybody always must have the benefit of doubt.

 

On the other hand, what bad quality models are you exactly saying ?

If you are talking about this:

 

http://www.serafimov.com/public/phpBB2_2/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20

 

If you would read in spanish, you would notice that is a LOW POLY model for a TargerWare project, just because the limit for TargetWare is 7000 polygons for model. Anyway, this doesn't mean to be a bad quality model, it's only a model with lesser detail.

 

[SuperKungFu]

still not going to let it go eh? :doh:

[zaelu]

I will ask you this question directly and think about it and be honest with yourself, if this wasn't a de-espona model but one from ED and you saw these pics on another forum, would you be defending him , OR would you be saying this was EDs model slightly changed.

 

If ED would had model let's say... Shrek ogre and I would see it in the movie... maybe... I would say... "How on earth did they imagined same ogre? Maybe they had used a a ferry tales book with pictures as inspiration". I would have a doubt even then.

 

But on an aircraft from the real world? You say you are a modeler? You are laughable dude. THEY SUPOSE TO LOOK ALIKE... and they DON'T! :lol:

 

And about your claim on differencies in quality on the other works of this modeler... well... again you prove yourself a "big one" too. The biplane its obviously a... LOW POLY version... maybe for using it in a game that doesn't requires 50 000 polys per models... like a RTS game?

 

Stick it into your head: You don't have both models. You have only one (posible) high resolution image. The models should look similar... otherwise a rework would be necesarely.

[Deadman]

So if you look at the last couple of post where I tell Yamis that I will Augment the models if he will send them to me and thats it ? Well he hasn't every contacted me in any way so that ends his clames to have a model. So if any thing happens with this new model we will see but there is no reason to be nasty about it.If or when some one releses anew model it doesnot mean ED has accepted it.

[zaelu]

I was looking last night again at some areas you can see from the other views he posted. e.g. the front landing gear door , it has 9 poly (not texture) rivets down each side and 7 rivets across the top on both models, and they line up exactly with each other. If you know anything at all about modelling, there is no way two authors could/would make the exact same number of rivets (polys not textures) on small insignificant parts like that.

 

How can you see the exact numbers of polys on that door from those pictures? And when you say rivets... do you mean "vertices"? Cause rivets are done in the texture still. Do you have a wireframe ditail picture of ESA_cbhierro's model?

 

And how would two modelers could reach the inimaginable 7 or 9 polys number on a... gear door model of a real life aircraft? Well... How could they? Think about it.

 

I think you should end this attack till you have suficient proofs otherwise you just ruin your credibility with those second hand arguments.

[Frostie]

Cool thats a very nice model, but I would be prefer and be totally loved up if there could be a Mirage busting SeaHarrier FA. in LOMAC ,that would be my baby.:)

[ESA_MistrL]

The Big Mouther

 

First off all I want to apologice everyone, Forum administrators specially, cause I'm using expresions and not sure about its politness, but, you know, I'm spanish. Since I'm not quite sure, please notice to me and I will edit as soon as possible. At least in spanish ARE absolutely polite.:music_whistling: :music_whistling:

 

Hey dude ( I mean FeedFish).

May I make a suggest? Even if I dont, I will do it.:thumbup:

Please, feed your fishes, model a HUGE PENNIS, put it in your Big Mouth, and, please, SHUT THE F...K UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hey fellas, have you ever seen such a Big Mouther? I can hardly remember.

How can you feel you are allowed to say someone you DO NOT know AT ALL is stealing anything? :mad:

You DO NOT have such a SINGLE prove.:cry:

You know what? You are ****ing jealous.:pilotfly:

And now you are going and you cask it ( dont worry if you dont understand, its an spanish expresion):thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[zaelu]

Man...

 

are you telling me that in this picture

( a zoomed detail on one picture of ESA_cbhierro model pictures) you actualy see 9 polys on each rivet?

 

If not in this one... show me a zoomed crop on one of ESA_cbhierro pictures where you think 9 polys are clearly visible on rivets and show a similar picture pro your ESPONA model.

 

I personaly can barely see the rivet, it could be made from any number of polys.

[ESA_MistrL]

The Big Mouther is growing up

 

Actually I AM NOT Hierro (notice both english styles). Actually he IS NOT my friend (I cannot blow him up in any dogfight so I HATE him).

And, didn't anyone else notice I tried hard to be sarcastic when I said in Spain it's polite?.

Talking about the benefit of the doubt, I'm wondering if you use not only your legs but also your hands to walk?.

 

Please, be comprehensive of my behavior. You have just put a HUGE amount of bullshit over Hierro. Is he your enemy? Do you have any reason for covering him with such an amount of bullshit? I guess you DO NOT of course. So if you did it with NO REASON at all, I'm allowed to do the same with you. Feel free to feel covered with the same bullshit.

 

And now you are going to cask it. (again the spanish expresion, dont worry)

[ESA_PIRAO]

...

He is stealing a model and is going to try and get in into LOMAC.

...

 

First i must say that I'm not a 3D expert.

ESA_cbHierro is a pilot in our squad in Lomac so is my friend.

 

Is very hard to say what you are saying FeedFish. You acuse directly to my friend to do something that i know that he'd never done.

 

You must be so so so sure that you have the true in your hands. I'm so so sure that you haven't it.

 

Why I'm saying that? Because I know the integrity of my friend. I know the previous works that he's made.

 

Anyway, we try to contact with the Autor of De-Espona models via email to know if he wants to participate in this post to clarify that is not his model. No one knows better that he if it is or not (and i know that Jose María of DE-ESPONA INFOGRÁFICA, which is located in Spain too can't say that the model is a DE-ESPONA's model because I know that ESA_cbHierro has made it completly).

 

So , please be carefull with your words.

 

And sorry for my poor english and the tone of the message but i can't continue reading what you are saying FeedFish.

[abigor]

If you think he is stealing the model why don't you send an email to the DE-ESPONA modeller to see this thread?

 

The only interested in this matter would be that modeller, not you, so please, let it go, or bring here someone of DE-ESPONA company to see this GREAT STEAL!! :doh:

[ESA_MistrL]

I love this gay. Bullshit, so Shit of a bull, isn't it? Remember I'm spanish. Sometimes I cannot be enough acurate.

Ok, lets waste time. I'll try to explain you how it usually works. In any serious country, with serious laws, if you steal something, you are out of law, but also If YOU acuse someone and It's proved YOU ARE NOT telling the truth, you are out of law and can be.. ( dont know the english word, you know, in the CourtHouse, in front an ungry, fat and serious Judge). You simply CANNOT say "He is stealing a model" without any doubt if you dont have such a single prove, because you DONT HAVE. Law is against you ( or you think yourself over Law) It doesnt matter how sure you are. You dont have a ****ing prove to say he IS stealing. You only can say you think that model is not his model, but anything else. And that's it. You already said you opinion, we respect you ( Ok, I didnt, cause my words or expresions) but, please, stop it, ok? you has already caused too much hurt. I think it's enough. Your opinion is the model is not his model, ok, we already know. And, please, notice you are the only fly eating that shit.

 

And now you are going and you cask it.

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

WHAT THE F....IS THIS SHIT?????

 

I think you have seen too much Columbo dude. Stealing? Where are your evidences? A single picture of shit?. ESA_Cbhierro did this model wiht a lot of hope of seeing it on a Ed simulator, and you came and bark that his model is stolen:mad:

 

The accusations that are you telling us are very serious. Not to mention that there are more polite ways of saying it. So stop barking!!

[ESA_cbhierro]

Hi to all,

 

Seen the subject I am considering leaving this model for the Lock-On, since I do not like that they accuse of that I have not done, you to me you do not do nothing else that to accuse I, that I have robbed, a model or another one, you say ahead that she has it.

 

I buy you or the unloading of an illegal form.

 

If you I buy the model must right to work with and to use it for that payment the canons of that model, or no!....., if the unloading of an illegal form, the use of that matter for any serious thing a crime, I hope that that is not their case.

 

I at any moment am not profiting with this model, nor that is my intention either, because I work that she costs to make any thing in 3d, and simply have exposed a work that I have made to see if there were the possibility of incorporating it to the Sim, (remembers that I do not receive by this model).

 

I think that this is a forum to discuss subjects related to 3d and with the Lock-on, an a does not stop to do accusations to us others, I have to try between all to improve Without.

 

Good and so that you see (that she would not have because to do it, I put the mesh to him of the fuselage.

 

 

A greeting and good hunting

[Raul]

Hello Everybody. If you thik the enghish who wrote in this posts is bad , mine is the worst :lol::lol:

 

Firs of all, and I just thing that Feedfish was wrong in his apresiation , and now he dont want to recognize.

 

It easy. But I will tell you a thing, FeedDick. Maybe I am wrong too, but I MUST to said this. You are a bastard, a mutherfuker and I wish you to be dead. Or better, kill yourself

 

Thank you very much. , I dont care if this offend you. Ma der fa ker . FILO DE MIL PADRES

 

Now , if you want to said that my english is poor, you can said it in

portuguese, spanish or even italian. F U C K YOU SON OF A BICH

 

With love , Holo

[urze]

BTW, how you know he didn't do it, did you watch him make every polygon, edit every vertice, NO you didnt.

 

You sure like telling people what to do don't you.

 

If you want to let it go, why don't YOU stop posting.

Return to sender

Think about it.

[zaelu]

Are you being purposefully like this OR is it a language thing.

could be a language thing

 

I never said there were 9 POLYS, I said there were 9 polygon based rivets, as opposed to rivets made by manipulating a texture. The ESPONA model and his model use polygons to make the rivets , not a texture.

 

So they are 9 rivets... made each by polygons? If so... are on the original plane... 9 rivets?

 

I realize that you want this model in the game and I realize you are expending a awfull lot of energy to try and nit pick everything to make it seems as though this is an original model so that ED will accept it and you will get to fly the Harrier. BUT , do you really want ED to accept stolen material just because someone used 3dMax to change a couple of small details to fit the real life aircraft specs he is trying to get into the game.

 

Here you just asume things just to undermine my point.