M-2000C Update Discussion

[Gators]

I think the flight model needs some work again. We are now able to fly M1.94 FL435 with both wing tanks....

 

 

 

 

Gators

[Esac_mirmidon]

You mean both empty wing tanks?

 

Im reading 3070 in the fuel meter. Nothing specially wrong as far as i know flying so high.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Esac_mirmidon

[jojo]

You mean both empty wing tanks?

 

Im reading 3070 in the fuel meter. Nothing specially wrong as far as i know flying so high.

 

The problem here isn't the altitude but the speed: M1.94 :smilewink:

[Gators]

You mean both empty wing tanks?

 

Im reading 3070 in the fuel meter. Nothing specially wrong as far as i know flying so high.

 

you want the pics with 4,5T ? :music_whistling:

[Esac_mirmidon]

I was doing myself a test. With full wing tanks at 45.000 i was barely on 0.99.

 

The speed was increasing slowly at the same time the wing tanks are feeding fuel until 1.95 with empty tanks.

 

The top speed for the Mirage clean is Mach 2.2. I dont know the limits for two wing empty tanks, or the drag of the tanks empty.

 

What source of information are you using to know drag, speed limit, height with empty wing tanks. I cant find anything about on the web. And i dont know what are the limits at that altitude for a Mirage 2000 with empty wing tanks.

 

Clean, is 2.2

[Gators]

Max speed clean : M 2.2

Max speed with ventral tank : M 1.4

Max speed with wings tanks : M 0.98

 

I am using the real doc of the plane and you won't find it on the web.

 

Gators

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks, for the info.

 

Then if the real doc says M 0.98 with empty wing tanks something is terrible wrong now. Worth a bug report in the correct thread for CptSmiley.

[_schepper_]

More than 50% reduse speed with empty tanks?

Really?

Sounds strange, but i am not a real pilot...

 

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i7 2600K oc 4.7g / asus gtx 1080 gaming x+ / 16gig ram / ssd 500gig / oculus rift / jetseat se / saitek rudder ((next upgrade)mfg crosswind) / logitech warthog hotas + 20cm extention / vaicompro 2.5

[Esac_mirmidon]

The only data i can use for comparison is the Mig-29A manual, with centerline tank empty max speed is 1.5 Mach, with wing tanks, Mach 0.9.

[Gators]

It is not a question of weight but drag.

 

Fly with a plane with gear down and full flap and the same plane clean. Even if the weight is the same your max speed can be more than twice higher.

 

With the wings tanks you cannot be supersonic, full or empty.

 

Gators

[_schepper_]

It is not a question of weight but drag.

 

Fly with a plane with gear down and full flap and the same plane clean. Even if the weight is the same your max speed can be more than twice higher.

 

With the wings tanks you cannot be supersonic, full or empty.

 

Gators

Indeed, now that i think off it... airbreak is to just drag, and thats influence is a lot.

:)

 

 

 

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i7 2600K oc 4.7g / asus gtx 1080 gaming x+ / 16gig ram / ssd 500gig / oculus rift / jetseat se / saitek rudder ((next upgrade)mfg crosswind) / logitech warthog hotas + 20cm extention / vaicompro 2.5

[Tumbleweed1606688689]

It is not a question of weight but drag.

 

Fly with a plane with gear down and full flap and the same plane clean. Even if the weight is the same your max speed can be more than twice higher.

 

With the wings tanks you cannot be supersonic, full or empty.

 

Gators

In fact you can go supersonic with wings tanks, it's just not allowed by the manual.

But mach 2 with wings tanks looks wrong. There is maybe a problem with tanks drag itself.

It looks like only the fuel weight produce induced drag and disapear as more as you burn it.

Sorry for my english ;)

[Gators]

In fact you can go supersonic with wings tanks' date=' it's just not allowed by the manual.[/quote']

 

I would say yes you can in a deep dive with full AB but the common point for all the plane is to come back in only one piece. With the aerodynamic profile of these tanks, in supersonic the vibration and shock wave would destroy everything.

The aerodynamic of the ventral tank is different and it allows the supersonic speed without any problem

 

Gators

[M2K]

Hi,

 

Going supersonic (1<MACH<2) is perfectly possible and allowed with wing tanks, even if there is a speed limitation. This is the very reason why you see their "nose" being so scarred on pictures.

 

An exemple here: http://www.portail-aviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Mirage_2000D_133-XE.jpg

 

M

Edited March 31, 2018 by M2K

[jojo]

Hi,

 

Going supersonic (1<MACH<2) is perfectly possible and allowed with wing tanks, even if there is a speed limitation. This is the very reason why you see their "nose" being so scarred on pictures.

 

An exemple here: http://www.portail-aviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Mirage_2000D_133-XE.jpg

 

M

 

According to who ?

 

AFAIK it has been dome in service, like M1.05, but the pilot should limit his speed < M0.95/ 600kt

Edited April 1, 2018 by jojo

[Strut]

For Zeus, or any of the RAZBAM blokes in the know,could you please inform us if there is going to be a Mirage Layers template / Paint kit released for the "skinners" anytime soon ? As one of them skinners im getting twitchy about my original skins which where based on Frenchy's "Jury rigged template" and would like to upgrade them to bring them up to scratch for the RoughMet improvement etc.

[F900EX]

Over on some red website the over all discussion for the M2000 and the AV8B don't at all seem to be positive. I own the M2000 and looking at the history of this release it would appear it was given to players in December 2015, I know it takes a lot of time and hard to develop and correct issues but your telling me in 3+ years there is still many open issues and complaints outstanding, even numerous basic features are missing from both the M2000 and AV8B.

 

I know very little on the history of Razbam other than the aircraft for FSX that had many issues but from what I am reading they are great for selling the dream but fails on delivering the product they sold.

 

If thats the case why are players keep throwing $$$ at them and keep purchasing products that are either incomplete, lack of updates and communication that seems to be getting less and less.

 

The Super Tucano might look exciting but its a complicated light attack aircraft.

[jojo]

It is the room to discuss M-2000C module update, not AV-8B (which is still new) or Super Tucano (not even on sale)...

[F900EX]

It is the room to discuss M-2000C module update, not AV-8B (which is still new) or Super Tucano (not even on sale)...

 

You are correct and yes there are threads for that but the point im trying to make it's all relevant since it's connected to the same developer with the same issues, so i'll just ask the question can someone shed some light as to why its taken 3+ years and the M2000C is still not complete yet? or more importantly what's the current timeline to make it close to completion.

[fjacobsen]

You are correct and yes there are threads for that but the point im trying to make it's all relevant since it's connected to the same developer with the same issues, so i'll just ask the question can someone shed some light as to why its taken 3+ years and the M2000C is still not complete yet? or more importantly what's the current timeline to make it close to completion.

 

 

 

One of the reasons is that after release of the M2000C they shifted focus on the AV-8B, which then got higher priority than finishing the M2000C.

 

 

I´m not sure why they didn´t put more effort into finishing it, my guess is that the main selling time of modules is right after early acces release, cause everybody are eager to get the new toy. After that sales decline quite rapidly and only special saels and then maybe when declared "final" the few who don´t like early acces will then buy.

So shortly after early acces the "economic" motivation declines and it becomes more important to get the next money cow ready for early acces.

 

 

I might be wrong, so please teach me if so.

 

 

Personally I find 3 years developement time, and then still not finished improper.

Most of us has bought early acces modules, not only to get our hands on them, but also as an supportive action. That kind of loyalty also means that the devs should feel obligated to do their utmost to get modules finished.

[Skitter]

Yup. That's exactly how I see it. It's taking advantage of players and their need for "new". They toy people like they are children.

Then they go quiet on the forum because they have nothing to say and people get angry. Then people get divided into those who think the RAZBAM is awesome and those who thinks the RAZBAM sux. Divide and rule (...ban and close threads on forum) :-)

Edited April 11, 2018 by Skitter

[Esac_mirmidon]

I've never feeled they are toying with me.

 

I'm mature enough to know what is still missing, what is buged and how difficult is sometimes software development.

 

But also im able to enjoy the Mirage in the actual state a lot with my squad mates without falling in the drama sometimes this forum evolve.

[fjacobsen]

I've never feeled they are toying with me.

 

I'm mature enough to know what is still missing, what is buged and how difficult is sometimes software development.

 

But also im able to enjoy the Mirage in the actual state a lot with my squad mates without falling in the drama sometimes this forum evolve.

 

 

Hmm..

With DCS rated as PEGI 16, after 3 years developement, I guess most people has become mature.

 

I have been developer for addon aircraft too, so I know the normal developement cycle.

But 3 years would mean that the aircraft module hardly could be called beta at early acces release.

If it's was deemed 3 years from being finishedat early acces release - then too much was missing to be called beta.

 

Alpha means that the addon is usable, but not finished feature wise and also contains alot og bugs and tuning.

 

Beta means that the addon is finished and only needs tuning and bugfixing. Only small additional features might be added. This should not take 3 years.

[Skitter]

I've never feeled they are toying with me.

 

I'm mature enough to know what is still missing, what is buged and how difficult is sometimes software development.

 

But also im able to enjoy the Mirage in the actual state a lot with my squad mates without falling in the drama sometimes this forum evolve.

 

Well, coming to terms with RAZBAM not delivering is probably a sign of maturity. I mean, what can you do ? Citing Jack Sparrow: "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do". And you have right to claim you're being happy with unfinished project. I mean, you confirmed exactly what I said in the post above. And I know why you don't like the "drama". Because people get fed up with negative emotions. And that's normal. But it still doesn't change the fact that RAZBAM fails to deliver. And maybe there is no deliberate will from RAZBAM to toy with people, but the project was hugely neglected and the negative response from the community was partly deserved. I see some updates to the module being made recently. Still RAZBAM gives no dates AFAIK to complete it's work. Which is very clever. No promises - no responsibility. Is that mature for you ?

Edited April 11, 2018 by Skitter

[Esac_mirmidon]

I'm not happy with an unfinished project.

 

I'm able to enjoy the Mirage even knowing is unfinished yet.

 

The difference is quite obvious between both sentences.