M-2000C Update Discussion

[Guest]

I mean that AP will trim the plane ONCE when enabled, then, if you disable it or move the stick more than a certain angle (I don't remember what) so that the AP light goes to yellow, it won't trim the plane anymore unless you enable it again...however, using the standby button is the other way to use the AP so that you can push it when you're going to make a maneuver then when releasing it AP will ENABLE again and thus re-trim the plane.

 

Hope it's clear now :)

 

it would be great to have a "constant" auto-trim so that when you release the stick to center, it trims the plane but if its not in the real plane then is ok.

Oh ok, yeah thats how i understood it worked. If you manouver and light goes yellow then it wont go grin again unless manually activated. Thats why we hace the standby mode.

 

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[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Oh ok, yeah thats how i understood it worked. If you manouver and light goes yellow then it wont go grin again unless manually activated. Thats why we hace the standby mode.

 

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Correct :)...btw, you can re-enable AP also by pressing Standby button again which is more convenient :)

[Guest]

Has anyone checked if aerial refueling is harder now? I was juuust getting acceptable at it and was wondering if this fm update will make me even worse.

 

 

Thanks

 

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[Esac_mirmidon]

Is quite easy if you forget all your muscle memory and habits and try to fly like the Mirage is now.

 

Use AP for general trim-attitude and trim hat for fine tunning and you will refuel very easy with some training.

[myHelljumper]

Use AP for general trim-attitude and trim hat for fine tunning and you will refuel very easy with some training.

 

You are refueling with AP active ?

 

I think I found a little problem with the FM, the performances a on spot from my initial testing but I think the STR is too high around 470kts.

I was able to pull 7G+ sustained with 2 magics, 50% fuel at 15 kft, that is a STR of 14, 14.5 deg/sec.

Edited November 30, 2017 by myHelljumper

[Angel101]

I´m a bit lost. The FM has been updated? in beta branch or 1.5?

[TheKrayTwin]

Yes been updated in open beta

[trindade]

I´m a bit lost. The FM has been updated? in beta branch or 1.5?

 

It's updated but just for Betas.

[Esac_mirmidon]

You are refueling with AP active?.

 

No. I mean im using the AP when approaching the tanker for general triming and then AP off and trim hat for fine tunning. Then is very stable and you only need little pressure on the stick and rudder to connect and keep on the basket.

[myHelljumper]

No. I mean im using the AP when approaching the tanker for general triming and then AP off and trim hat for fine tunning. Then is very stable and you only need little pressure on the stick and rudder to connect and keep on the basket.

 

Ok, will try refuel to see if it has changed.

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

I mean that AP will trim the plane ONCE when enabled, then, if you disable it or move the stick more than a certain angle (I don't remember what) so that the AP light goes to yellow, it won't trim the plane anymore unless you enable it again...however, using the standby button is the other way to use the AP so that you can push it when you're going to make a maneuver then when releasing it AP will ENABLE again and thus re-trim the plane.

 

Hope it's clear now :)

 

it would be great to have a "constant" auto-trim so that when you release the stick to center, it trims the plane but if its not in the real plane then is ok.

 

From what I understand, the aircraft is constantly trimmed when AP is engaged (green light). When AP is on standby (yellow or Amber as described in the M2000C RDM real manual) or is off, the aircraft keeps the latest autotrim provided by the AP but will not autotrim anymore.

To reset the trims you will have to engage FBW reset switch on the left panel.

 

Also when AP is on (Green), the trim hat acts like a ministick, when Standby or off (amber or off) the trilm hat acts like a normal trim switch.

 

You can confirm all the behavior by flying leveled, AP ON (Attitude hold, not Altitude hold) and increase/decrease speed. You should not pich at all.

 

The second test would be to fire something with AP ON, the aircraft should autotrim the aircraft to prevent the roll induced by the asymetric payload. Now if you disengage AP (Amber or Off) just before firing, the aircraft should start rolling due to no autotrim when AP is Amber or Off.

 

From what M2000C pilots say, they usualy never turn the AP Off. Only turned off for AAR (something to do with the auto level feature when bank angle is under 10°).

[Guest]

I cant find the fbw reset button in key bindings. I wanted to put it on hotas.

 

Known issue? Am I missing something?

 

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[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

From what I understand, the aircraft is constantly trimmed when AP is engaged (green light). When AP is on standby (yellow or Amber as described in the M2000C RDM real manual) or is off, the aircraft keeps the latest autotrim provided by the AP but will not autotrim anymore.

To reset the trims you will have to engage FBW reset switch on the left panel.

 

Also when AP is on (Green), the trim hat acts like a ministick, when Standby or off (amber or off) the trilm hat acts like a normal trim switch.

 

You can confirm all the behavior by flying leveled, AP ON (Attitude hold, not Altitude hold) and increase/decrease speed. You should not pich at all.

 

The second test would be to fire something with AP ON, the aircraft should autotrim the aircraft to prevent the roll induced by the asymetric payload. Now if you disengage AP (Amber or Off) just before firing, the aircraft should start rolling due to no autotrim when AP is Amber or Off.

 

From what M2000C pilots say, they usualy never turn the AP Off. Only turned off for AAR (something to do with the auto level feature when bank angle is under 10°).

 

Yes, you are right about the plane still being trimed CONSTANTLY as long as the AP light is green (AP engaged). One way to test this is by flying very slow, then enable AP and then kick afterburner leting the plane accelerate to a very high speed and you will see how the AP constantly trims the plane (as long as you DONT MAKE MANEUVERS)...

 

however, what I meant is that you cant move the stick to maneuver the plane and then when it's neutral get auto trim automatically because the AP will be disengaged...that's what I meant with "constant auto-trim" even if there is a "constant auto-trim" while the AP IS engaged. But if this is how it works in the real plane then nothing to say :)

 

I cant find the fbw reset button in key bindings. I wanted to put it on hotas.

 

Known issue? Am I missing something?

 

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Yeah, same here...seems like there is no keybinding for reset FBW in controls setup. Hope they can add it anytime soon.

[MKay]

For me the autopilot standby button works as trim reset if the autopilot is off (no green nor yellow light)

[Guest]

For me the autopilot standby button works as trim reset if the autopilot is off (no green nor yellow light)

Elaborate please. When engaged it simulates you taking the hand off the stick and activating ap

 

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[MKay]

Yes, if you have the AP engaged the autopilot stby works as a standby for the AP and you can manoeuvre the aircraft manually. Let it go and the AP engages again and holds the attitude/heading/alt whatever you chose.

 

If you disengage the AP completely (all AP lights off) then the Autopilot stby button works as trim reset for me.

 

So:

Disenage Autopilot

Press autopilot stby.

Trim should be reset to neutral.

 

 

If you are on the ground with a trim other than neutral the AP warns you. Tone + red light in the annunciator panel.

press autopilot stby on the ground and the light and tone go away.

 

Steps to reproduce:

Startup the AC

trim the ac on the ground

See the light and hear the tone

press AP STBY

Tone and light should be gone because trim is now reset to neutral

 

PS: I have only checked the ground behaviour. This is still as described. Haven't tried midair trim reset this way in the new patch. in 1.5.7 and 2.3 it still works this way.

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

however, what I meant is that you cant move the stick to maneuver the plane and then when it's neutral get auto trim automatically because the AP will be disengaged...that's what I meant with "constant auto-trim" even if there is a "constant auto-trim" while the AP IS engaged. But if this is how it works in the real plane then nothing to say :).

 

No offence but I think you are doing it wrong. Let me explain myself.

 

In the real plane the AP disengage lever is located behind the stick, as you can see on this image.

 

The pilot will automatically depress this lever when grabbing the stick. This will put AP on Standby (amber light). Then when releasing the stick (and thus releasing the AP Standby lever) the AP will be reengaged (Green light).

 

What I think you do is forcing on the stick without using the AP standby lever. Wich is fine, it's a feature, but not appropriate for normal operations. When forcing enought on the stick, the FBW understand it as an emergency and put the AP on standby for you. In this case, just give a tap to the AP Standby lever and the light will go back to Green.

 

With this baby, using the AP and AP Standby lever is mandatory. I have binded it to the Pinkie Lever of my Hotas Warthog. It felt a bit strange at the beginning but now I do it even when I am not flying the Mirage... Bad habits :) I emptied all the brake hydrolic circuit of the MiG-21 once... A hell of a landing man!

[Guest]

Yes, if you have the AP engaged the autopilot stby works as a standby for the AP and you can manoeuvre the aircraft manually. Let it go and the AP engages again and holds the attitude/heading/alt whatever you chose.

 

If you disengage the AP completely (all AP lights off) then the Autopilot stby button works as trim reset for me.

 

So:

Disenage Autopilot

Press autopilot stby.

Trim should be reset to neutral.

 

 

If you are on the ground with a trim other than neutral the AP warns you. Tone + red light in the annunciator panel.

press autopilot stby on the ground and the light and tone go away.

 

Steps to reproduce:

Startup the AC

trim the ac on the ground

See the light and hear the tone

press AP STBY

Tone and light should be gone because trim is now reset to neutral

 

PS: I have only checked the ground behaviour. This is still as described. Haven't tried midair trim reset this way in the new patch. in 1.5.7 and 2.3 it still works this way.

This is interesting! Is it how the real bird works?

 

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[Guest]

No offence but I think you are doing it wrong. Let me explain myself.

 

In the real plane the AP disengage lever is located behind the stick, as you can see on this image.

 

The pilot will automatically depress this lever when grabbing the stick. This will put AP on Standby (amber light). Then when releasing the stick (and thus releasing the AP Standby lever) the AP will be reengaged (Green light).

 

What I think you do is forcing on the stick without using the AP standby lever. Wich is fine, it's a feature, but not appropriate for normal operations. When forcing enought on the stick, the FBW understand it as an emergency and put the AP on standby for you. In this case, just give a tap to the AP Standby lever and the light will go back to Green.

 

With this baby, using the AP and AP Standby lever is mandatory. I have binded it to the Pinkie Lever of my Hotas Warthog. It felt a bit strange at the beginning but now I do it even when I am not flying the Mirage... Bad habits :) I emptied all the brake hydrolic circuit of the MiG-21 once... A hell of a landing man!

Just a tap? Mine works holding it only.

 

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[3rd Wing - Raiden]

Just a tap? Mine works holding it only.

To reengage AP if the light is stuck on amber after releasing everything, yes!

 

To make manual adjustments without using the ministick (trim Hat) when AP is ON, you have to hold the AP Standby Lever. AP will reengage as soon as you release the AP Standby Lever.

[Guest]

To reengage AP if the light is stuck on amber after releasing everything, yes!

 

To make manual adjustments without using the ministick (trim Hat) when AP is ON, you have to hold the AP Standby Lever. AP will reengage as soon as you release the AP Standby Lever.

Nice. Will try tonight. Thanks.

 

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[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Yes, if you have the AP engaged the autopilot stby works as a standby for the AP and you can manoeuvre the aircraft manually. Let it go and the AP engages again and holds the attitude/heading/alt whatever you chose.

 

If you disengage the AP completely (all AP lights off) then the Autopilot stby button works as trim reset for me.

 

So:

Disenage Autopilot

Press autopilot stby.

Trim should be reset to neutral.

 

 

If you are on the ground with a trim other than neutral the AP warns you. Tone + red light in the annunciator panel.

press autopilot stby on the ground and the light and tone go away.

 

Steps to reproduce:

Startup the AC

trim the ac on the ground

See the light and hear the tone

press AP STBY

Tone and light should be gone because trim is now reset to neutral

 

PS: I have only checked the ground behaviour. This is still as described. Haven't tried midair trim reset this way in the new patch. in 1.5.7 and 2.3 it still works this way.

 

just tried this and it works as you said when on the ground but not when flying, which I think it makes sense, so when flying AP standby does not resets trim. Thanks for the tip.

 

No offence but I think you are doing it wrong. Let me explain myself.

 

In the real plane the AP disengage lever is located behind the stick, as you can see on this image.

 

The pilot will automatically depress this lever when grabbing the stick. This will put AP on Standby (amber light). Then when releasing the stick (and thus releasing the AP Standby lever) the AP will be reengaged (Green light).

 

What I think you do is forcing on the stick without using the AP standby lever. Wich is fine, it's a feature, but not appropriate for normal operations. When forcing enought on the stick, the FBW understand it as an emergency and put the AP on standby for you. In this case, just give a tap to the AP Standby lever and the light will go back to Green.

 

With this baby, using the AP and AP Standby lever is mandatory. I have binded it to the Pinkie Lever of my Hotas Warthog. It felt a bit strange at the beginning but now I do it even when I am not flying the Mirage... Bad habits :) I emptied all the brake hydrolic circuit of the MiG-21 once... A hell of a landing man!

 

Don't worry mate, of course no ofence :)

 

I know about the standby button in the real stick and how it works but I think we are not talking exactly about the same thing...as you said, in real life, as soon as the pilot has his hand grabbing the stick the AP standby button will be depresed and thus NO AP will be applied (it will be in standby if its enabled) so he needs to release the stick to let the AP to re-engage and have some AP trim...

 

what I was talking about that thought would be nice (I know this is not realistic nor implemented in the real plane) is a "mode" where you have "automatic trim" as soon as you set stick to NEUTRAL (not RELEASING the stick and thus releasing the AP standby button).

 

Hope its clear now...anyway its just "fantasy" so no need to discuss this :P

 

Also, when you say :" In this case, just give a tap to the AP Standby lever and the light will go back to Green." I think this is not accurate, as this will only happen if the bank angle is below a certain amount (I dont remember the numbers) but something like 45º?¿?, otherwise, even releasing the AP standby, botton AP WON'T engage.

 

Cheers!

 

EDIT: Btw, anyone knows why now when changing the FBW Spin mode switch from Normal to Vrill causes "MAN, DOM and BECS" lights from the warning pannel to lit inmediately and they don't turn off once switch is again in Norm position??No damage should have been done to any of those systems.

Edited November 30, 2017 by watermanpc

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

Also, when you say :" In this case, just give a tap to the AP Standby lever and the light will go back to Green." I think this is not accurate, as this will only happen if the bank angle is below a certain amount (I dont remember the numbers) but something like 45º?¿?, otherwise, even releasing the AP standby, botton AP WON'T engage

 

You are right. AP will not reengage if you are outside of it's enveloppe of operation (bank 60°+ IIRC and pitch angle, altitude under 200 ft and higher than 50 kft, too much AoA, etc.)

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

EDIT: Btw, anyone knows why now when changing the FBW Spin mode switch from Normal to Vrill causes "MAN, DOM and BECS" lights from the warning pannel to lit inmediately and they don't turn off once switch is again in Norm position??No damage should have been done to any of those systems.

 

I don't know about the warnings and their behavior. The only thing I know is DON'T TOUCH the FBW Spin Mode Switch.

 

It is only used for emmergencies in case you enter into a flat spin and gives you more rudder authority.

 

Never had to use it so far.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

thanks for the replies mate!!, hope someone can tell us about the warning panel lights.

 

Meanwhile, I would like to ask a couple more things:

 

1- Is it possible to perform a tail slide in the m2000?? I had never saw such a maneuver in a mirage 2000 before except in the video posted by =GoR-07=Vlad. After several attempts I couldn't manage to do it, just engine stops and the plane enters a flat spin (no matter if using FBW mode switch in Norm or vrill).

 

2- How do real pilots configure the plane to perform what I have always known as "crazy flight" maneuver?...look at video from 3:27 to 3:43:

 

 

When I try to perform this with FBW in norm, the plane is too "corseted" and "stiff" which makes the maneuver to look too unnatural and rough and with FBW in vrill roll is uncontrollable while the pitch still being too stiff...so I wonder if one must mess with FBW channels or something like that to be able to perform that maneuver with such a "fluid" look.

 

 

thanks!!