DCS and Pimax

[Bogey Jammer]

Never believe anything else than the final product. This applies to DCS modules too.

[jamesb]

Any word on how production is going?

[Boris]

Latest Update from PIMAX (31st July):

 

Hi Futurists,

 

We have been working with M1 testers to improve the product for almost two months and over 400 games tested, the community contributed to the beta testing a lot as well. http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/how-to-contribute-to-the-closed-beta/7173

 

As planned, we are assembling the 2nd batch of ~230 M2 (improved M1). The process goes smoothly.

 

On August, we plan to bring M2 to offline backer meetups to learn from your thoughts.

 

What we will do during the meetups:

 

1. Demo the potential of 8K with recommended graphics cards and games;

 

2. Compare 8K directly with other VR headsets;

 

3. Show you how to adjust settings on PiTool to reach the best experience;

 

4. Collect your requirements and suggestions;

 

5. Answer your questions face to face.

 

When confirmed, the time and location of the meetups will be updated via Kickstarter.

 

Thanks to the hard work of testers and the team, the experience has been largely improved.

 

Here are some of the issues you concern about:

 

1. Performance

 

Performance has been improved by 30% - 40% for new games, including Unreal 4.18 or later, most Unity games, and Oculus 1.17 or later. We will share a list of games we have tested so far.

 

GTX 1070 is the minimum graphics cards that we can run 8K with, however, GTX1070 cannot utilize the full potential of Pimax 8K.

 

We have integrated different FOV options in PiTool for users to choose from. 1070 users would use smaller FOV before upgrading graphics cards.

 

Worth to mention that, with GTX 1070, 5K performs better than 8K. For those who are not planning to upgrade the graphics cards, we will provide you options to exchange your 8K for 5K + accessories.

 

Another good news is that the next-generation graphics cards and VR technology are around the corner. We cannot disclose details, but you can find relevant information online.

 

2. Distortions on the edge of the big FOV

 

With large FOV, it is hard to find the "one fits all" algorithm.

 

The distortion is impacted by different FOV options, IPD, myopia/hyperopia, and the different distance between eyes and lenses. This is not an issue with small FOV headsets, but an issue with big FOV headsets.

 

With the most recent PiTool version .61, we have improved the lens correction profiles significantly. Previously the equipment can only measure up to 120 degrees, the engineers rely on subjective estimations to correct the distortions beyond the 120 FOV range.

 

Now we have the new equipment that supports 190 FOV test, it definitely will help the engineers to test and correct the distortions at the edge, the accuracy will be largely improved.

 

Whatsmore, we plan to offer several settings for users to find their best fit. More information will be shared later.

 

3. Software and UX

 

We are working with testers to speed up iterations, we have resolved most of the issues identified by the testers.

 

When key issues resolved, we plan to allocate more resources to improve UX/UI, and share the improved PiTool with you to collect feedback and localization support. We plan to open the UX/UI/Localization projects to the community and provide rewards for top contributors. We believe the UX/UI will be largely improved with time and efforts from Pimax team and the community.

 

As business clients do not require perfect software / UX, and they usually only adopt one type of PC for each scenario, we can meet their expectations already. We have received enough business orders and have reached a consensus with our clients:

 

"Backers come first, business clients second."

 

By that saying, we will move on with the mass production, if some backers prefer to wait until software ready, we can still deliver the prepared units to business clients.

 

FAQ

Will the M2 in the meetups the same units with those the testers are testing with?

M2 = improved M1. M2 is exactly the result of the join effort of Pimax team, testers, and the community.

 

Do the backer meetups mean the end of closed beta or the embargo is about to lift?

No, the closed beta will keep going and the embargo will not be lifted until ready. However, no NDA required for the small-scale, private, backer-only meetups. Testers can express their impressions as backers, but in-depth reviews will be reserved until embargo lifted.

 

What's the difference in terms of purpose between backer meetups and M1 closed beta?

Testers are the backers nominated by the community. The whole purpose of the closed beta is for testers to give M1 in-depth testing and high-quality feedback.

 

We are working with testers to keep improving software and user experience, many details are subject to change. Thus, we will not offer closed review during backer meetups.

 

The purpose of backer meetups is to bring backers the optimized M1 headset, demo the potential of 8K, and learn your preferences about shipping, and anything we haven't considered.

 

Will backer meetups impact the mass production and shipping progress?

It won't. As planned, we are producing around 230 units, there will be around 700 one month later, and scale up progressively.

 

 

(previous plan on tracking)

 

During the backer meetups, you can let us know, in person or by email, whether you are willing to receive earlier even when software not ready.

 

It is possible backers prefer to wait until software and user experience improved. In case there are headsets left, we will ship the units to our business clients.

 

We have business orders of thousands of headsets and our business clients are very nice and agreed on taking care of any unit left.

 

How to distinguish the business version and the consumer version?

The community provides brilliant suggestions for the business ID. http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/pimax-business-version-id/7177/166

 

Before the ID fixed, we will make minor tweaks in the appearance, so you can tell the difference between the two versions.

 

With the following updates, we will address the following questions:

 

1. What exactly improved on M2 when comparing with M1

 

2. Game list we have tested;

 

3. The time and location of the backer meetups and how to participate;

 

4. When and how to let us know if you want to receive your units earlier even if software not ready;

 

5. Detailed testing reports when the M1 closed beta ends;

 

6. Return/exchange policies.

 

Based on our internal testing and other feedback, we are confident that once tried 8K, it will be hard for you to get used to old generation headsets anymore. We won't let our backers disappointed.

 

Best Regards,

 

The Pimax Team

[Johnny Dioxin]

Didn't intend buying this anyway, due to the requirement for Lighthouse tracking (and therefore extra cost), but if the minimum requirement is a 1070 I definitely won't have one - I have no intention of wasting money 'upgrading' to another 1k series card.

 

I'spect I'll upgrade my 1060 with a 12 or 1300 series one, by which time hopefully Rift CV2 will be near release and we'll know what we are getting with it.

 

Hopefully the PiMax spec will at least mean that Rift CV2 will hopefully trump it's performance.

[Boris]

I'm not even a little bit surprised about the requirement for at least a 1070. Given the extra pixels and FOV that need to be pushed, it makes total sense.

 

In DCS, even running with a 1080ti there is performance to be desired.

 

11 series cards will probably drop around September and I fully expect, and always have expected, to need one to power the Pimax 8k headset in DCS.

 

It's not a waste of money, if it means a dramatically improved experience.

[hansangb]

I like that they give you an option. Downgrade some of the specs and keep using 1070 (or lower?) spec cards. Or use the latest GPU to power the latest VR HMD.

[metzger]

It seems that this will be outdated before released with the new vr interface, rtx 2080 and starvr.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[cordite]

How do you figure?

[Boris]

It seems that this will be outdated before released with the new vr interface, rtx 2080 and starvr.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

StarVR One is an enterprise product.

 

Also, like everyone, Pimax is well aware of the next nVidia generation and even hinted that they might have some kind of early access to it.

[dogbite]

The Backers meetup in Berlin, from Aug 31-Sept 2 will have 3 of the beta tester there. From the Kicstarter Q/A "Yes, will be live stream for those cannot attend".

[Phantom88]

The Backers meetup in Berlin, from Aug 31-Sept 2 will have 3 of the beta tester there. From the Kicstarter Q/A "Yes, will be live stream for those cannot attend".

:thumbup:Great to know:thumbup:Thank You

[funkyfranky]

The Backers meetup in Berlin, from Aug 31-Sept 2 will have 3 of the beta tester there. From the Kicstarter Q/A "Yes, will be live stream for those cannot attend".

I'll be there as well. It's a bit funny because the event is located literally just 5 min by bike from the place I live :D

 

In any case, I am just a simple backer and have no obligations to whomever or signed any kind of NDA. So if anyone is interested (?), I could give a completely unbiased opinion.

 

Actually, I have no idea what to expect. But if you have any suggestion what I should pay particular attention to, or have any question, I could pass along if I get the chance, just shoot. I'll do my best to get an answer - but, of course, I can't promise anything :)

[*Rage*]

Please do give us your impressions!

[ram0506]

Hi funkyfranky,

I don`t think they will demo DCS at the meetup, but if so, you know what you have to do.;)

 

Just give us your overall impressions, everything is welcome.:thumbup:

[funkyfranky]

Alright, here is are my impression from the Pimax backers event in Berlin. I'll keep it rather short ;)

 

I had the chance to test the 8k version but not the 5k. Also, I'm not really a gamer. The only game I have time to play is DCS. This makes the comparison a bit difficult since they only had other games available. So they put me in some ego shooter which I did not know.

 

From what I saw, the image quality was good. It felt quite a bit better than the Rift I would say. Here I would have loved to have tested it in DCS to see how clearly you can see the gauges. That for me will be the ultimate test.

 

Tracking was working well. I did not notice anything unusual. They used two Vive base stations so this was room scale. For DCS this should be more than sufficient I reckon.

 

The larger field of view was really nice. I'm looking forward to try how this looks and feels in the cockpit.

 

The most negative thing I can mention, is that you can clearly see the distortion at outer regions of the FOV. While this was quite prominent it mostly comes to your attention when you explicitly look at the peripheral areas. Once your focus is in the center you don't notice it so much. I guess, some people will find this annoying while others won't care too much.

 

They also had a demo of the 8k with their leap motion sensor attached. The demo was rather simple. You were in a dark room and could draw something with your fingers.

However, I found this very impressive. The tracking of your hands and arms was very accurate. I could see a very precise movement of each of my fingers. I don't know if this will ever be implemented in DCS but I would say this has big potential for flipping switches. For comparison, I got a Captogove but this felt a lot better. The tracking area was quite large as well. Enough for everything in the cockpit, I'd say unless you want to grab something behind you.

 

Bottom line, I'm looking forward to the Pimax and I don't think I have wasted my money on it. I also talked to a few other backers and they were quite happy saying that they liked the resolution and the FOV.

[Shack]

Thanks funky for that write up !

[ram0506]

Thanks, funkyfranky!

[badaboom]

Franky.Were You testing the second/newest prototype of Pimax 8k? Thx.

[*Rage*]

Thanks for the writeup. I read theres a 5K+ version as well which some have found preferable to the 8K.

[cordite]

Franky.Were You testing the second/newest prototype of Pimax 8k? Thx.

 

He was at the Berlin meet, so yes.

[*Rage*]

https://blog.infinite.cz/pimax-8k-m2-5k-impressions-7dc661e024c4

[dogbite]

Thanks Franky

 

 

For more impressions here is the page where video feeback is being uploaded from the meet http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/berlin-meetup-backers-hands-on-impressions-only/7757/16

[Hellcat]

TtheSwanCollectiveBerlin Meetup

 

written review

 

 

 

heSwanCollectiveBerlin Meetup

So I tried the 8K & 5K+ non-stop for 3 straight hours.

Overall impression: GAME CHANGER.

NO motion sickness at all thanks to the INCREDIBLY NICE FOV. I think this is a crucial factor regarding the sickness.

Edge distortion: Virtually non existent for me. Some backers claimed to see it, but once I correctly adjusted the IPD and got (really) close to the lenses, there was NO DISTORTION. No distraction when looking around as well. I was prepared for the worst, but was utterly surprised.

VISUAL FIDELITY: I think in the end it all comes down to software settings. Some experiences appeared a little dull and washed out and my first impression was kind of like 'ah, there we go, that's the trade-off apparently' (even on the 5K+).

BUT other experiences managed high contrast, deep blacks, lucid colors, no godrays and looked simply beautiful.

Some games lacked anti aliasing and it looked instantly bad, but other games were rendered smooth and crisp. So no fault on Pimax' technical side. But people who maybe only saw this one bad thing jumped too early to conclusions I guess.

SDE: This topic was the only thing that didn't quite meet my expectations, since a lot of people said you can't see the pixels on the 8K. You definitely can see them, always. Sure they are beautiful, tiny pixels, but pixels nonetheless. Combined with the non-native-resolution-input you can't help but get a feeling of the huge potential in the future, if each pixel was addressed individually. So 's suggestion to drop the framerate to increase resolution would be my #1 priority atm.

Still the image is VERY nice if the experience is adjusted right. I'm only saying the display seems to be capable of an even larger WOW factor than it actually conveys due to the upscaling.

I maybe tried 12 different games and for example fruit Ninja (yeah I know) was very vivid and crisp and showed clearly a non-washed-out image.

SDE on 5K+ would be not acceptable for me personally since it's unbelievably close to the oculus Go, no kidding. But then again, spreading the 5K's pixel count over 200 degrees gets you closer to the current HMDs than some people like to admit.

FRAMERATE: I'm sure that what people recently perceived to be stuttering due to the 8K's 80hz, is actually just the computer not being able to deliver 80hz and dropping sometimes to more like 40hz in demanding situations. Good graphics cards in the future will solve that issue with ease.

Some games ran PERFECTLY SMOOTH on the 8K with no lag whatsoever.

TRACKING: it was a sometimes messy setup with people walking in front of the base stations, but in a clear situation it was a non issue.

BRAINWARP: I directly asked the Pimax developer about it, and he said it's working partially and they're still working on it. This seems like the Chinese way of saying 'we haven't gotten around doing it'.

BIG FOV is so incredibly more immersive than anything I ever experienced before apart from real reality (yeah boring I know). I took my oculus Go with me for direct comparison... You can NEVER come back to this I'm afraid.

PIMAX TEAM: now I finally understand why things often got out of hand in the forum. I say this with my utmost respect for those friendly, tech savvy people, but they're STILL a small team of nerds not really understanding the backers' needs for information and clarity. They really should have hired just ONE non-Asian person just to bridge the language and cultural barrier, preventing escalation and confusion. Also they NEED A PR PERSON!

The meetup was devoid of any Pimax related images, banners, promo material, flyers. Nothing. Just a hijacked space of another VR company with THEIR branding. This must change immediately in order to seem professional. One of the main team members came in his sweatpants and chillout sweater. While down to earth, this is simply too much to create the proper atmosphere for this GREAT DEVICE.

Cool: the CEO Robin Weng was present the whole time and super sweet to us backers.

THE MUSKETEERS: I only met Martin () and Seb () which are the best people. Now I'M SURE that without those guys' insane amount of work the past 3 months the headset would still suck big time, and half of the backers would've already jumped the ship. Be glad that most of you didn't, it was worth the wait and fear, for it truly is the next generation of VR.

All in all I'm a HAPPY BÄCKER!

P.S.: tested some VR porn with an attending porn producer ... Very promising.

 

 

[badaboom]

He was at the Berlin meet, so yes.

:thumbup: Thank You:thumbup:

[Hellcat]

Impressions look good ....Looking forward to getting mine ...Think I'll stick with the 8k....