After the Tomcat?

[Shaman]

F-111 deserves to be immortalized as DCS World module, as it pioneered wing-sweep technology, low-level terrain following, afterburning turbofans and more. It is legendary aircraft that has accomplished more than Tornado, MiG-23, Su-24 and many others.

 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Shaman

[westr]

If the Tornado was realeased by HB and is provided a Map as is the case with the F-14 the perfect environment is the one in which it saw its most combat use with largest numbers of aircraft. Iraq would be the perfect map IMO but we are talking a huge map to be realistic to combat operations. British Tornados would provide just as much enjoyment, the GR1 was very similar to the IDS variant. Like I said before TIALD was employed on the GR1. The JP233 was used to successful effect in combat in 91, as was the Alarm missile.

[QuiGon]

If the Tornado was realeased by HB and is provided a Map as is the case with the F-14 the perfect environment is the one in which it saw its most combat use with largest numbers of aircraft. Iraq would be the perfect map IMO but we are talking a huge map to be realistic to combat operations. British Tornados would provide just as much enjoyment, the GR1 was very similar to the IDS variant. Like I said before TIALD was employed on the GR1. The JP233 was used to successful effect in combat in 91, as was the Alarm missile.

I have to disagree regarding the map. The perfect Tornado map would be Fulda Gap 1985, as this was the playground the Tornado was designed for and did most of its flying, both british and german Tornados.

[MBot]

Should HB go ahead and build a Baltic theater around the Viggen and Draken, then this would also be a strong point towards a German Marineflieger Tornado.

[QuiGon]

Should HB go ahead and build a Baltic theater around the Viggen and Draken, then this would also be a strong point towards a German Marineflieger Tornado.

Indeed! And before someone is asking: The Marineflieger (Navy) Tornado is exactly the same as the IDS Tornado (maybe there are some differences in the software that I'm not aware of). The navy just used it differently and with different armament (HARMS + Kormorans).

[westr]

I have to disagree regarding the map. The perfect Tornado map would be Fulda Gap 1985, as this was the playground the Tornado was designed for and did most of its flying, both british and german Tornados.

 

I agree that the gulf is not the environment the Tornado was designed for but it was the environment where the Tornado has seen combat.

[QuiGon]

I agree that the gulf is not the environment the Tornado was designed for but it was the environment where the Tornado has seen combat.

 

It has also seen combat on the Balkans. The RAF Tornados even flow their combat sorties from their home base in Bruggen.

[westr]

It has also seen combat on the Balkans. The RAF Tornados even flow their combat sorties from their home base in Bruggen.

 

Yes RAF Tornado was involved in combat operations over the Balkans, but compare that with the Middle East operations, the number of Tornados involved in 91 including Italian Tornados, the involvement of Tornados during the 2nd Gulf war, and then the involvement of Tornado in both Libya and Afghanistan.

[westr]

Having said all that the Straights of Hormuz would provide a really good hypothetical scenario for Tornado combat operations in DCS. As would the new Caucasus.

[Shaman]

I agree that the gulf is not the environment the Tornado was designed for but it was the environment where the Tornado has seen combat.

 

I would discuss this. Tornado has always been kept out of harms way and never truly seen direct combat, basically never was used for what aircraft was designed for (what was the cause of its losses in Gulf War). Completely different story with F-111, that went all into the danger zone since Vietnam. P.S. I have no trouble having one or the other module, still both are awesome.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Shaman

[QuiGon]

I would discuss this. Tornado has always been kept out of harms way and never truly seen direct combat, basically never was used for what aircraft was designed for (what was the cause of its losses in Gulf War). Completely different story with F-111, that went all into the danger zone since Vietnam. P.S. I have no trouble having one or the other module, still both are awesome.

???

 

Tornado losses were among the highest losses of any type during Desert Storm as the RAF used them to attack Iraqi airfields at low level initially. They changed that to medium altitude precision bombing after the first couple of days.

[westr]

I would discuss this. Tornado has always been kept out of harms way and never truly seen direct combat, basically never was used for what aircraft was designed for. Completely different story with F-111, that went all into the danger zone since Vietnam. P.S. I have no trouble having one or the other module, still both are awesome.

 

Sorry cant agree with that at all, please explain in detail how you come to that conclusion?

[Shaman]

???

 

Tornado losses were among the highest losses of any type during Desert Storm as the RAF used them to attack Iraqi airfields at low level initially. They changed that to medium altitude precision bombing after the first couple of days.

Well precisely.

I have built this opinion during my studies in Airspace Management faculty in Defense Uni. I am not intentionally downplaying losses of this or any other pilot and airframe, just saying Tornado aircraft was utilized in a different way than its design. It did not work in the Desert due to lack of expected terrain masking. From that moment onwards it was operated out of harms way. It would work well in the 80-ties penetrating under umbrella of Easter Germany and Poland's search radars, here my superiors and lecturers mentioned Warsaw Pact was seriously afraid of Tornado as threat. Proper DCS World map therefore should be Central Europe theater for such aircraft and I hope to see it on day. If you feel like I am biased towards F-111, well that is just my opinion. I love Panavia Tornado since being small child and also waiting for its high quality sim since 90-ties more than for F-111.

 

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[QuiGon]

Well precisely.

I have built this opinion during my studies in Airspace Management faculty in Defense Uni. I am not intentionally downplaying losses of this or any other pilot and airframe, just saying Tornado aircraft was utilized in a different way than its design. It did not work in the Desert due to lack of expected terrain masking. From that moment onwards it was operated out of harms way. It would work well in the 80-ties penetrating under umbrella of Easter Germany and Poland's search radars, here my superiors and lecturers mentioned Warsaw Pact was seriously afraid of Tornado as threat. Proper DCS World map therefore should be Central Europe theater for such aircraft and I hope to see it on day. If you feel like I am biased towards F-111, well that is just my opinion. I love Panavia Tornado since being small child and also waiting for its high quality sim since 90-ties more than for F-111.

 

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Exactly, that's why I would prefer a Cold War europe map for the Tornado instead of a flat desert map where the Tornado is only half as fun.

But I don't see why the F-111 should be any different in this regard?

[Shaman]

Caucasus could work for Tornado, at least small portion of it. AI gets pounded really bad no matter how well scripted still. Bad news is in the new map in Middle East it will be even worse.

Again from choosing between the two...

F-111 will be overall a more interesting aircraft to be played in DCS World, since this thread is What's Next, this is the core of my choice for next favorite. Mentioning also, how many jet aircrafts do we have with a tandem cockpit like that in DCS World (0). F-111 is also more mean and capable mid altitude bomber than the Tornado, ask any Aussie audience on these forums, how bad ass The Pig was.

Tornado fighter variant, multilayer dedi server wise is not a good idea, as anything this thing would be average at is intercepting large high altitude bombers and some SEAD. Where F/A-18C will be so much better at everything. Whatever Heatblur is up to time will tell. Maybe it is not sweep wings military jet at all?

 

P.S. And still going to pre-order Tornado, anyone who has played the 90ties sim is surely with me!

Edited December 31, 2017 by Shaman

[QuiGon]

I'm not at all interested in a Tornado fighter variant. I want the Tornado striker, which is much more versatile than the F-111 which is pretty much limited to drop bombs from low to mid altitudes. The Tornado on the other hand is capable of SEAD and anti-shipping in addition to the low level bombing and medium altitude PGM employment. The newer variants have anti tank and cruise missiles as well. It's also more capable in the A-A environment than the F-111. Buw what makes the Tornado so fun to me is the NOE flying which is its speciality. Of course the F-111 is also made for low level flying, but not to the kind of NOE flying the Tornado does.

 

A tandem multicrew cockpit does already exist in DCS, as part of the Gazelle ;)

 

Anyways, I'm looking forward to what Heatblur has to offer in the future, no matter what :)

[ghostdog688]

After the Tomcat?

 

Actually, I think an f105 would be a better integration of all the things they’ve developed. A nifty flight model, a radar for all-weather and night navigation and attack. An a6 would be good too, but if they ain’t doing another navy bird, a thud would be an equivalent. Bonus points for it being a G, but a D would be perfectly suitable.

 

I’d happily accept any ground attack tornado, gr1 could carry alarm, and jp-233 - both interesting and potent weapons that would change the way a battle against ground forces could be fought.

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[Bad Idea Hat]

Actually, I think an f105 would be a better integration of all the things they’ve developed. A nifty flight model, a radar for all-weather and night navigation and attack. An a6 would be good too, but if they ain’t doing another navy bird, a thud would be an equivalent. Bonus points for it being a G, but a D would be perfectly suitable.

 

I’d happily accept any ground attack tornado, gr1 could carry alarm, and jp-233 - both interesting and potent weapons that would change the way a battle against ground forces could be fought.

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I love using the Viggen for anti-runway work in Dynamic Caucasus/Blue Flag.

If Heatblur made the Tornado, the Viggen would be waaay obsolete in that role, and it even does that role very well.

[westr]

In comparison to the number of aircraft operating in ODS there were many in the RAF that expected Tornado losses to be higher than it actually was due to the high risk nature of the initial raids, they also were not fully aware of the air defences of the Iraqis but knew that they had significant numbers of AAA batteries, they actually expected more air defence fighters as well, this didn't however materialise, mainly due to the F15 fighter sweeps. In the grand scheme of things when you take into account the scale of operations in the initial stages of the war allied losses were incredibly light, by the pure nature of the interdiction mission carrying heavy loads and often flying over airfields the Tornado was vulnerable but what aircraft wouldn't be flying such missions? Loft attacks obviously didn't require the aircraft to overfly the target area but still within close proximity of military installations. What was amazing was that no aircraft were lost carrying the JP233 runway denial weapon.

Edited December 31, 2017 by westr

[AG-51_Razor]

 

A tandem multicrew cockpit does already exist in DCS, as part of the Gazelle ;)

 

Anyways, I'm looking forward to what Heatblur has to offer in the future, no matter what :)

 

Not sure what you mean by "tandem" but I have always known it to mean 'front and back' in terms of an aircraft cockpit like the L-39, the Hawk or the C-101. I do understand though, that none of those a/c have any AI helping out, which is maybe what you are referring to.

[pegon]

What will the Tornado bring to the table vs the Viggen in terms of carrier attack ? Since Russian aircraft seem to be off the table maybe the Tornado is a credible opponent ?

Edited December 31, 2017 by pegon

[westr]

If you mean anti-ship role there are Tornado variants that have anti-shipping role

[QuiGon]

What will the Tornado bring to the table vs the Viggen in terms of carrier attack ? Since Russian aircraft seem to be off the table maybe the Tornado is a credible opponent ?

Kormoran 1 & 2 as well as HARM for the german Marineflieger Tornado and Sea Eagle for the British Tornado.

[QuiGon]

Not sure what you mean by "tandem" but I have always known it to mean 'front and back' in terms of an aircraft cockpit like the L-39, the Hawk or the C-101. I do understand though, that none of those a/c have any AI helping out, which is maybe what you are referring to.

I responded to Shaman, who was talking about the pretty unique cockpit layout of the F-111:

F-111 will be overall a more interesting aircraft to be played in DCS World, since this thread is What's Next, this is the core of my choice for next favorite. Mentioning also, how many jet aircrafts do we have with a tandem cockpit like that in DCS World (0).

[asla36]

Google translate and my broken Russian seem to bring me to the same conclusion. This is amazing news, maybe in 2019?