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MiG29 afetr western upgrade


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Found an article from Nov 2006

http://www.airpower.at/news06/1120_gebrauchte29er/index.html

 

It's written in German (but actually an Austrian page), however you might find the photo of the upgraded MiG29 cockpit (last one right to the bottom) interesting. Showing one of the 12 upgraded Slovakian MiG29.

kind regards,

Raven....

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Not quite...you see, the original migs radar sux, and theres not much you can shoot unless you aquire the target and have a stable lock. You guys better upgrade the missiles as well. R-27's are demodeé. ;)

 

Without new radar and new missiles, there not much in that upgrade than pilot confort.

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Not quite...you see, the original migs radar sux, and theres not much you can shoot unless you aquire the target and have a stable lock. You guys better upgrade the missiles as well. R-27's are demodeé. ;)

 

Without new radar and new missiles, there not much in that upgrade than pilot confort.

 

We didnt aquired or locked target in real situation for a looooong time, Slovakia is in heart of Europe and nobody expecting problems in this region. And If some planes are not responding during civil flights, our ground stations are navigating migs to them for help. Many of countries using figters only for this purpose mostly.

This is not US wild west. :smilewink:

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We didnt aquired or locked target in real situation for a looooong time, Slovakia is in heart of Europe and nobody expecting problems in this region. And If some planes are not responding during civil flights, our ground stations are navigating migs to them for help. Many of countries using figters only for this purpose mostly.

This is not US wild west. :smilewink:

Not quite.

 

RAF, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium and some other NATO countries alternately provide Combat Air Patrols over Baltic post-soviet republics which don't have their own competitive air forces. Poland ofcourse use modernised MiG-29 for this purpose.

 

Russia has warned NATO against assisting Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in monitoring their air space when the countries become members of the NATO alliance in a few days.

 

Belgian F-16 fighter jets from 349 Sqn, stationed at Zokniai airbase in northwestern Lithuania were srambled on June 2nd to intercept a Russian IL-18 approaching Estonian airspace. Polish MiGs has some adventure also but I can't remeber what was it exacly - nevermind.

 

So You never know what may happen. It's a wild-east here.

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Not quite.

 

RAF, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium and some other NATO countries alternately provide Combat Air Patrols over Baltic post-soviet republics which don't have their own competitive air forces. Poland ofcourse use modernised MiG-29 for this purpose.

 

Russia has warned NATO against assisting Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in monitoring their air space when the countries become members of the NATO alliance in a few days.

 

Belgian F-16 fighter jets from 349 Sqn, stationed at Zokniai airbase in northwestern Lithuania were srambled on June 2nd to intercept a Russian IL-18 approaching Estonian airspace. Polish MiGs has some adventure also but I can't remeber what was it exacly - nevermind.

 

So You never know what may happen. It's a wild-east here.

 

:megalol: heh I dont know what may happen, but I know how many figheters is now operational and know also that some have to stay here for protecting borders....so we dont have fighters for purposes like you said :smilewink:

 

I am talking about our forces nt about your migs or others

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A few months ago we almost shot down a spanish helicopter that was called to fight forest fires here! The civilian emergency command forgot to inform the military and 2 F-16's were scrambled to intercept it.

 

Our planes also do as police nevertheless they are ready to meet opposition at any time if they are called to assist any alies.

 

My country is buying most of the new stuff for international actions. We bought 37 Leopard II A6's wich have ZERO usefullness in the mainland. And I cant picture them in a large battle either. Even though Leopard tanks are on top of the food chain theres too few of them and we have no tradition whatsoever in tank battles. Dunno why we bought them, could have saved the money for new fighters sometime in the future.

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the german JG71 was stationed in Lithuania as well with 4 F-4Fs

 

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A few months ago we almost shot down a spanish helicopter that was called to fight forest fires here! The civilian emergency command forgot to inform the military and 2 F-16's were scrambled to intercept it.
That is standard procedure and it hapens all the time.. Airliners are regulary intercepted by fighters when there is radio trouble.. espec. after 9/11. Countries are even bound by international regulations to be capable to control their airspace. Those that are not capable of doing it them selves must pay someone else to do it for them (eg. Slovenia) and in the end that is much more expensive.

 

That is why we are repairing our 29s too. The old 21s are near the apsolute end of their service life and when they are gone something is needed to keep the fighter airforce alive. Repair of 5 aircraft should cost us around 10M$, and that wouldn't buy half the time of external services that we would get with the repaired aircraft.

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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Our case differes from those falcons were already with master arm on and locked to target.

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No our Slovak migs dont have radar upgrade, but I think we dont need it!

You're right.

 

"In February 2004, RSK MiG signed an agreement to upgrade 12 MiG-29 of the Slovak Air Force. The upgrade will include Rockwell Collins navigation and communications systems and BAE Systems IFF (Interrogation Friend or Foe) system. Russian companies will supply the glass cockpit with multi-function LCD displays and digital processors. Deliveries are to commence in 2006."

 

old news - source: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig29/

 

It says nothing about upgrading radar.

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Guys what about trainers? Lord Of War style?

 

You can always get an albatros with some gun pods or something to intercept airliners no?

 

Why spend 10million upgrading a couple of migs?

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There are better radars avaiable for it in the export market. Its a mystery to me how it wasnt donnne so far. Too bad for them. :D

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here's what i dug out:

 

Slovakia has modernised its 10 Mig-29As and 2 Mig-29UBs for $69,6 Million.

 

The modernisation included:

 

1. IFF BAE Systems AN/APX-113

2. Rockwell Collins AN/ARC-120 digital radio

3. Rockwell Collins AN/ARN-147 VOR/ILS receiver

4. Rockwell Collins AN/ARN-154 digital TACAN receiver

5. MIL-STD-1553B

6. Russian Avionics MFI-54 Multi functional colour display

7. Russian Avionics PUS-29 control panel

 

That is therfore $5,8 Million per airplane,without new radar,weapons etc.

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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WOW, for our F-16's we got more than that for 6 million each MLU kit costs. You guys were ripped off! :D

 

For that ammount of money you could have bough 7 of our MLU complete aircraft (we have up to 12 for sale).

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No need...ppl can understand babelfish enough to make some sort of sense out of it.

Haha, OK! :thumbup:

 

Well here's it anyways. Or rather as far as I got today. I have to leave quickly now so I can't continue to translate. Sorry about that. Maybe tomorrow.

 

Second hand MiG-29?

 

A contemplation from 2006's point of view

 

 

On Nov 20 2006 the „Salzburger Nachrichten“ reported that the SPÖ (Sozialdemokratische Partei Österreichs, Social Democratic Party of Austria) asked around for used MiG-29 among others, hoping for interceptor aircraft for a price of „less than 700 million Euros in any case“. Georg Mader has taken a closer look into the matter for airpower.at:

 

 

The MiG-29

 

With its latest variants (-SMT, -M2 and -3 or K/KUB ship based), the Soviet-/Russian front fighter aircraft MiG-29 has been brought very close to western standards of operational efficiency as well as ease of operation and maintainance. However the Russian air force focuses more on the larger Sukhoi-27 and 30 series today and exports of these new MiG-29 series have so far been limited to countries like Sudan, Yemen or Algeria.

The base version of the MiG-29 series (9.12, 9.13) (NATO-Code: 'Fulcrum-A, -C') that is being considered by Austria is a relatively small fighter. While it is still larger than the F-16 or the MiG-21 for instance, it is considerably smaller than for example the F-15 or the Su-27. Its maiden flight already took place on Oct 6 1977, the first mass produced jets left the factory in 1982. First readyness for operation was declared in 1983.

 

 

Performance

 

 

The MiG-29 is still one of the most capable combat aircraft in the world and it achieved excellent performance values in almost all aspects on its appearance in the 80s. It has well-balanced aerodynamics and an outstanding thrust/weight ratio which amounts to 1.09:1 with normal gross weight. The MiG-29A reaches a maximum speed of 2445 kph (mach 2.3) in an altitude of 10000 m. It can also fly quite fast in lower altitudes. Up to 1500 kph (mach 1.25) are possible. The operational ceiling amounts to 17000 m, the maximum altitude is stated as 20000 m. Thus it outclassed both the F-16 as well as the F/A-18 with its appearance. It was also superior to both jets concerning climbing performance. However those have been enhanced or replaced as well.

 

 

Composition

 

 

The jet's fuselage is made completely of metal and is manufactured in semimonocoque construction. Only 7% of the jet's cell's weight consist of composite materials. The landing flaps and roll-ailerons are made of carbon fibers. Most of the airframe is made of aluminium-lithium-alloys and aluminium (65%). Altogether it is rather lightweight with its curb weight of only 10900 kg. Furthermore the airframe is very robust and withstands heavy stress because of g forces and high speeds. While the jet's maximum gross weight of 18480 kg is rather limited, it is sufficient because the plane cannot carry too much fuel and weapons after all.

 

 

Utilization philosophy

 

 

The MiG-29 was fundamentally developed for two modes of deployment. If a threat is expected, the MiG-29 will mostly fly a patrol in a small area. If there's a surprise attack, the jet will take off directly to intercept. In both scenarios the jet will be strictly controlled by a ground based GCI-controller (sorry, I can't translate this). The airplane receives information about targets from the earth station via the Lazur data link, which are displayed on the HUD. Thus the pilot receives information about heading of, and distance to the enemy. During the approach to the enemy only the EOS is active while the radar remains in the standby mode in order not to send out telltale emissions while being able to be quickly activated in case of need. The Mig-29 is guided so closely to the target by GCI-controllers that it can basically instantly lock and launch the R-27R guided missiles after activating the radar. Most of the time both guided missiles are being launched together in accordance with Russian military doctrine. Thus not only is the probability of kill increased, but an asymmetrical load is avoided which would impair the jet's maneuverability.

 

 

Lifespan and maintainance

 

 

The low lifespan of only 2500 flight hours is considered to be the greatest weak point of the airframe. Airframe and engines have to be maintained very frequently (by western point of view, not by soviet philosophy of use). Hence the availability is only 75%. Altogether the MiG-29 is extremely intensive in maintainance. This is also the reason why its cost of operation is comparatively high. Furthermore the engines' lifespan of 1400 hours is very small. After only 350 hours an intermediate overhaul is needed.

 

 

Engines

 

 

The RD-33 features a high reliability as well as a rather low rate of fuel consumption compared to earlier Russian engines. At full military power approximately 0.75 kg of fuel per kg of thrust/per hour are being used, with afterburner the consumption amounts to 2.05 kg/kg/hour. The engines are unsusceptible to changing ratios of flow and continue to flawlessly operate even at high angles of attack and under heavy strain. However they produce very visible grime/smut/soot when using certain fuels and during certain maneuvers.

 

 

Cockpit

 

 

The MiG-29's cockpit's instrumentation appears to be rustic and was already obsolete at the time of its introduction. The cockpit holds many analog gauges that have been used in older designs. Compared with today's level of technology which utilizes concise glass cockpits with digital displays and MFDs, a distinct backwardness is evident even to the layman. The goal of this design was the ability to reeducate pilots of older airplanes for the new type as easily as possible. In contrast to other modern fighter jets the controls of the MiG-29 are not based on the HOTAS concept (Hands On Throttle And Stick). While there are several control elements on both thrust controllers that are fit onto a bar on the left hand console and on the control stick in the middle, most of the time important functions that concern aerial combat cannot be controlled that way. Because of that, many combat-relevant functions have to be controlled by the pilot via levers and buttons in the cockpit, which leads to what western pilots call an unacceptably high workload in stressful situations. One of the reasons for this is that there are numerous functions that the pilot has to handle manually. Accommodating that many levers and buttons so that all these functions may be controlled via the HOTAS principle is basically impossible.

 

 

Avionics

 

 

By the time the avionics were introduced they were modern and very complex by Russian standards. Today however, the avionics are out-dated. Particularly problematic is the weak integration of systems because the pilot has a very hard time controlling the systems, especially during combat, because of absent automated functions. However altogether the avionics are not much harder to deal with than in western combat aircraft. This is because the Fulcrum's avionics are less flexible and there are less functions as a result.

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Modernisation of our MiGs has been a good deal for some of our Air Force staff.. lot of bribery there. MiG-29 is too expensive to operate compared with JAS Gripen which is a similar plane class. We lost two of them + 1 pilot some 3 years ago during the low level night training flight.

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