TM Warthog and a10C : just some binds ?

[dureiken]

Hi there

 

I would like to know if it's possible to use TARGET to bind only some keys on TM Warthog ?

 

For example : center view, TS speak, Voice Attack

 

Because when I use TARGET, default DCS profile doesn't work anymore

 

Thanks a lot

[cichlidfan]

Once you use Target, your Warthog stick and throttle lose their individual identities and are seen as Warthog Combined. For that reason the sim will not use the default profile.

[dureiken]

yes that's why I asked how to do for bindings just a few keys :)

[cichlidfan]

There really isn't a way, that I am aware of. AFAIK, once you start using Target you have to either define each control function specifically with Target or assign the control to a DX and assign that in game (the problem being that Target only supports up to DX32 which is not enough to handle everything).

[dureiken]

ok thanks :)

[DeepDrummer]

Hi there

 

I would like to know if it's possible to use TARGET to bind only some keys on TM Warthog ?

 

For example : center view, TS speak, Voice Attack

 

Because when I use TARGET, default DCS profile doesn't work anymore

 

Thanks a lot

 

If you are asking if you can bind a few keys to those and use the keyboard for the rest, then the answer is yes. if you use a target profile, you can have your Hotas press whatever keybinds you like. As many or as few as you decide to configure. (and a whole lot more).

Your axis like pitch and roll and stuff should be configured in game when the script runs for the first time.

I have my TeamSpeak and trackir center view on a button. VAC would be similar.

In the commercial aircraft SIM I use, it's more about aircraft management than joystick and throttle flying and so very few Key binds are necessary on the stick and throttle. You do not have to have a binding for every button.

I *believe* that as long as you

1. Don't set the same key bind in 2 separate places like in target AND in game

2. Run the target script first and leave it running and THEN set all your in game keybinds.

3. Set any buttons or switches you want in game while running the script as combined as long as they are not set to activate something in Target.

I just fired up my gaming machine and loaded up my BF109 script which has 4 assignments not yet set. My incredibly simple target script combines throttle and stick as one and has every button assigned in Target save 4 on a hat under my index finger.

I went into the in game key binds (which are totally empty for joystick bindings except in the axis section) and set the down press on that hat switch to briefing room.

In game, every target assigned hotas thing works properly AND the hat switch brought up the briefing window.

I confirmed by that test that one can set target assignments alongside In game assignments although I did the opposite to demonstrate, it still shows you can have both.

The first clue is that you set your axis in game.

The point is they can get along as long as they don't use the same buttons or keybinds.

The only drawback is any hotas you have to assign in game will have to be re-assigned in game since you now have one column instead of 2 as chiclidfan has mentioned.

Both Target and the in game GUI for setting key bindings have improved drastically.

Many things formerly true about target no longer apply.

Save your old profiles by saving your user/saved games folder regularly. Print out your key binds. Make sure you can go back before messing with it.

If you use target to assign most keystrokes, you can go far beyond the DX32 limit.

Default keystroke bindings are lacking.

No such word as "can't."

All scripts are not created equal.

The answer is YES, it IS possible. Quite easily actually as long as that switch or button isn't in use in target.

[Balzarog]

Homefries has created a really fantastic set of Warthog and Cougar Target profiles for virtually every aircraft in DCS. I downloaded it and tried it on my modules. They really are works of art. The only reason I don't use them is because I downloaded the DCS Warthog profiles by Polaris1 that are much less comprehensive, but also much more simple. I'm an old man and I had a bit of trouble understanding some of Homefries concepts. I also like to switch aircraft during a session and found switching profiles in Target more trouble than I was willing to accept. All that said, Homefries Target profiles are a phenomenal piece of work. Check out the threads by Homefries and Polaris1. One or the other might get you what you want.

[PiedDroit]

Hi there

 

I would like to know if it's possible to use TARGET to bind only some keys on TM Warthog ?

 

For example : center view, TS speak, Voice Attack

 

Because when I use TARGET, default DCS profile doesn't work anymore

 

Thanks a lot

 

Hi all,

 

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party.

Yes, you can totally do that, using MODE_FILTERED.

 

Here is a sample script that I'm using it for the P-51D (I just tweaked it so it doesn't depend on other includes), in which I set up:

- a few special commands that call keyboard shortcuts (for snap views, teamspeak, trackIR)

- a customized axis (MAP_RELATIVE) to use the ministick for target range

- a virtual axis that is activated through the Coolie switch left and right (for target size)

- a filtered slider (through an hysteresis) because my throttle slider is a bit jittery.

 

I just launch the script, the "Combined" appears and the other two stay and work as usual.

In game I map the zoom on the SLIDER1 axis of the "Combined", and the RY for target range, RX for size.

Everything else I map it directly on the "Throttle" and "Joystick" devices, in DCS.

Except I don't map anything on the Joystick's S1, H2L, H2R and Throttle's CSL, CSR, MSP and MSU because these will trigger some keypresses that I set up in the script, but this is just an example, if you use the A-10C just delete these lines from the script and map the keys to your liking (as in your originial question).

 

 

 

include "target.tmh"

// Standalone DX mappings

int ThrottleMap1[]={

SC,DX1,

MSU,DX3, // Mike Switch
MSD,DX5,
MSL,DX6,
MSR,DX4,
MSP,DX2,

SPDF,DX7, // Speed Brake
SPDM,0,
SPDB,DX8,

BSF,DX9, // Boat Switch
BSM,0,
BSB,DX10,

CHF,DX11, // China Hat
CHB,DX12,

PSF,DX13, // Pinky
PSM,0,
PSB,DX14,

CSU,DXHATUP, // Coolie Switch
CSD,DXHATDOWN,
CSL,DXHATLEFT,
CSR,DXHATRIGHT,

LTB,DX15,

EFLNORM,DX16,
EFLOVER,0,

EFRNORM,DX17,
EFROVER,0,

EOLIGN,DX31,
EOLNORM,0,
EOLMOTOR,DX18,

EORIGN,DX32,
EORNORM,0,
EORMOTOR,DX19,

APUON,DX20,
APUOFF,0,

LDGH,DX21,

FLAPU,DX22,
FLAPM,0,
FLAPD,DX23,

EACON,DX24,
EACOFF,0,

RDRNRM,DX25,
RDRDIS,0,

APPAT,DX27, // PATH
APAH,0,     // ALT/HDG
APALT,DX28, // ALT
APENG,DX26,

IDLELON,DX30,
IDLERON,DX29
};

int JoystickMap1[]={ // Actually the same as JoystickMap

TG1,DX1,

S1,DX5, // Side
S2,DX2, // Red
S3,DX3, // Pinky
S4,DX4, // Paddle

TG2,DX6,

H1U,DXHATUP, // Trims (upper right)
H1D,DXHATDOWN,
H1L,DXHATLEFT,
H1R,DXHATRIGHT,

H2U,DX7, // TMS (lower right)
H2D,DX9,
H2L,DX10,
H2R,DX8,

H3U,DX11, // DMS (lower left)
H3D,DX13,
H3L,DX14,
H3R,DX12,

H4U,DX15, // CMS (thumb)
H4D,DX17,
H4L,DX18,
H4R,DX16,
H4P,DX19
};

// empty maps

int ThrottleMap0[]={

SC,0,

MSU,0,
MSD,0,
MSL,0,
MSR,0,
MSP,0,

SPDF,0,
SPDM,0,
SPDB,0,

BSF,0,
BSM,0,
BSB,0,

CHF,0,
CHB,0,

PSF,0,
PSM,0,
PSB,0,

CSU,0,
CSD,0,
CSL,0,
CSR,0,

LTB,0,

EFLNORM,0,
EFLOVER,0,

EFRNORM,0,
EFROVER,0,

EOLIGN,0,
EOLNORM,0,
EOLMOTOR,0,

EORIGN,0,
EORNORM,0,
EORMOTOR,0,

APUON,0,
APUOFF,0,

LDGH,0,

FLAPU,0,
FLAPM,0,
FLAPD,0,

EACON,0,
EACOFF,0,

RDRNRM,0,
RDRDIS,0,

APPAT,0,
APAH,0,
APALT,0,
APENG,0,

IDLELON,0,
IDLERON,0
};

int JoystickMap0[]={

TG1,0,

S1,0,
S2,0,
S3,0,
S4,0,

TG2,0,

H1U,0,
H1D,0,
H1L,0,
H1R,0,

H2U,0,
H2D,0,
H2L,0,
H2R,0,

H3U,0,
H3D,0,
H3L,0,
H3R,0,

H4U,0,
H4D,0,
H4L,0,
H4R,0,
H4P,0
};

// Special keys
define KPslash					USB[84]
define KPstar					USB[85]
define KPminus					USB[86]
define KPplus					USB[87]

define TeamSpeakPushToTalk		CAPS

define TrackIrCenter			L_ALT+SCRLCK
define TrackIrDisable			L_ALT+BRK

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

define TPULSE 70
define TDELAY 50
define T (TPULSE+TDELAY)

define SHORTTEMPO 300
define LONGTEMPO 1500

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
int hysteresis(alias dir, alias cur, int val, int delta){
if (dir<0){
	if      (val<cur      ){ cur=val;         }
	else if (val>cur+delta){ cur=val; dir= 1; }
}
else if (dir>0){
	if      (val>cur      ){ cur=val;         }
	else if (val<cur-delta){ cur=val; dir=-1; }
}
else{
	if (val>cur){ cur=val; dir= 1; }
	else        { cur=val; dir=-1; }
}
return cur;
}

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
int s_THR_FC_dir=0;
int s_THR_FC_cur=0;
int hysteresis_THR_FC(int axis)
{
return TrimDXAxis(axis,
	SET(
		hysteresis(
			&s_THR_FC_dir,
			&s_THR_FC_cur,
			Throttle[THR_FC],512
		)/32
	)
);
}

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
int snapviewlist;
int snapview(int s,int hold,int release)
{
snapviewlist = SEQ(KP0,KP1,KP2,KP3,KP4,KP5,KP6,KP7,KP8,KP9);

if (hold)
{
    ActKey(KEYON+CHAIN(
    	PULSE+R_CTL+KP0			,D(T),
    	PULSE+X(snapviewlist,s)	));
}
else
{
	if (release)
	    ActKey(      L_WIN+X(snapviewlist,s));
	else
	    ActKey(KEYON+L_WIN+X(snapviewlist,s));
}
}

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

int main()
{
/////////////////// Setup and initialisation ///////////////////
Configure(&HCougar, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&T16000, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&LMFD, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&RMFD, MODE_EXCLUDED);

Configure(&Joystick, MODE_FILTERED);
Configure(&Throttle, MODE_FILTERED);
if(Init(&EventHandle)) return 1;

SetKBRate(TPULSE, TDELAY); // Keyboard pulse and delay times in ms
SetKBLayout(KB_ENG);

/////////////////// Empty maps ///////////////////

// Empty maps
MapList(&Joystick,&JoystickMap0);
MapList(&Throttle,&ThrottleMap0);

/////////////////// Mappings ///////////////////

//MapKey(&Throttle, CSU, REXEC(0, 75, "TrimDXAxis(DX_SLIDER_AXIS,  16);")); // DX_SLIDER_AXIS = slider2
//MapKey(&Throttle, CSD, REXEC(0, 75, "TrimDXAxis(DX_SLIDER_AXIS, -16);"));

MapKey (&Joystick, S1, EXEC("snapview(8,0,0);"));
MapKeyR(&Joystick, S1, EXEC("snapview(8,0,1);"));

//MapKey (&Joystick, H2D, EXEC("snapview(2,0,0);"));
//MapKeyR(&Joystick, H2D, EXEC("snapview(2,0,1);"));
MapKey (&Joystick, H2L, EXEC("snapview(1,0,0);"));
MapKeyR(&Joystick, H2L, EXEC("snapview(1,0,1);"));
MapKey (&Joystick, H2R, EXEC("snapview(3,0,0);"));
MapKeyR(&Joystick, H2R, EXEC("snapview(3,0,1);"));

/////////
// TDC //
/////////

//MapAxis(&Throttle, SCX, DX_XROT_AXIS, AXIS_NORMAL, MAP_RELATIVE);
//SetSCurve(&Throttle, SCX, 0, 40, 0, 0, -10);
MapAxis(&Throttle, SCY, DX_YROT_AXIS, AXIS_NORMAL, MAP_RELATIVE);
SetSCurve(&Throttle, SCY, 0, 40, 0, 0, -10);

MapKey(&Throttle, CSL, REXEC(0, 50, "TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS, -8);"));
MapKey(&Throttle, CSR, REXEC(0, 50, "TrimDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS,  8);"));

////////////
// Slider //
////////////

KeyAxis(&Throttle,THR_FC,0,AXMAP1(512,
	EXEC("hysteresis_THR_FC(DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);"),
	EXEC("hysteresis_THR_FC(DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);"),
	EXEC("hysteresis_THR_FC(DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);")
));

/////////////
// TrackIR //
/////////////

MapKey(&Throttle, MSP, TEMPO(TrackIrCenter,TrackIrDisable,SHORTTEMPO));

/////////
// Mic //
/////////

MapKey (&Throttle, MSU, TeamSpeakPushToTalk);
   
   return 0;

}
int EventHandle(int type, alias o, int x)
{
   int rc = DefaultMapping(&o, x);

if(&o == &Throttle & x == THR_FC) return rc;

GameOutput(&o, x, o[x]);
return rc;
}

 

 

 

P.S.:

 

This snippet makes the thrustmaster combined silent by default (no DX generated by the combined on button actions):

	MapList(&Joystick,&JoystickMap0);
MapList(&Throttle,&ThrottleMap0);

If you want the combined act as usual (by default, all joystick DX buttons available + a few of the throttle DX buttons), remove the lines entirely (this is default).

 

If you want the combined to only act as the throttle (all throttle DX buttons available), replace with this:

	MapList(&Joystick,&JoystickMap0);
MapList(&Throttle,&ThrottleMap1);

 

P.P.S.: Adding a simplified script that doesn't have all the gizmos, to serve as template:

include "target.tmh"


define TeamSpeakPushToTalk		CAPS

define TrackIrCenter			L_ALT+SCRLCK
define TrackIrDisable			L_ALT+BRK

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

define TPULSE 70
define TDELAY 50
define T (TPULSE+TDELAY)

define SHORTTEMPO 300
define LONGTEMPO 1500

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

int main()
{
/////////////////// Setup and initialisation ///////////////////
Configure(&HCougar, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&T16000, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&LMFD, MODE_EXCLUDED);
Configure(&RMFD, MODE_EXCLUDED);

Configure(&Joystick, MODE_FILTERED);
Configure(&Throttle, MODE_FILTERED);
if(Init(&EventHandle)) return 1;

SetKBRate(TPULSE, TDELAY); // Keyboard pulse and delay times in ms
SetKBLayout(KB_ENG);

/////////////////// Mappings ///////////////////

/////////////
// TrackIR //
/////////////

MapKey(&Throttle, MSP, TEMPO(TrackIrCenter,TrackIrDisable,SHORTTEMPO));

/////////
// Mic //
/////////

MapKey (&Throttle, MSU, TeamSpeakPushToTalk);
   
   return 0;

}
int EventHandle(int type, alias o, int x)
{
   int rc = DefaultMapping(&o, x);
//
GameOutput(&o, x, o[x]);
return rc;
}

DCS_demo_filtered.tmc.txt

DCS-template_filtered.tmc.txt

Edited August 4, 2017 by PiedDroit

[cichlidfan]

Yes, you can totally do that, using MODE_FILTERED.

 

I am sure this is basic stuff, but I already have a question. What does MODE_FILTERED do? Once I understand that I will probably be able to comprehend the rest with a little research, and the purchase of a good C book.

 

I like TARGET but I have obviously been missing out on some cool stuff.

[PiedDroit]

I am sure this is basic stuff, but I already have a question. What does MODE_FILTERED do? Once I understand that I will probably be able to comprehend the rest with a little research, and the purchase of a good C book.

 

I like TARGET but I have obviously been missing out on some cool stuff.

 

This mode is not documented, I found after some obscure nights of tinkering and net digging.

As far as I understand, it activates the Thrustmaster Combined the same way as the normal mode, except the regular devices are still visible.

Then it allows you to control the output (in my demo script, I prevent the throttle slider axis to generate any output because I'm handling it through a function, using TrimDXAxis).

 

It's no pure C syntax, it's a bit confusing, so the best advice I can give is to try stuff and read the support files that comes with TARGET (the .tmh files that are included) :D

I advise to avoid putting any fancy logic in EventHandle(), as it might break things big time.

 

Note that I added a simpler file to be used at template, in my previous post, the demo one is still there, both are of use I think.

Edited August 4, 2017 by PiedDroit

[cichlidfan]

Note that I added a simpler file to be used at template, in my previous post, the demo one is still there, both are of use I think.

 

Cool. I just installed TARGET on one of my non-simming machines. I will do some digging through the tmh files and look closer at your attached files. Thanks.

[PiedDroit]

Cool. I just installed TARGET on one of my non-simming machines. I will do some digging through the tmh files and look closer at your attached files. Thanks.

 

Have fun, this all looks simple but there is a lot of sweat, swearing, trial and error behind it :D

 

Also, to observe the result of your script, you can run the "Device Analyzer", then click on the topleft icon, select "Thrusmaster Combined".

This gives you a nice view of both your normal devices and the thrustmaster combined.

Edited August 4, 2017 by PiedDroit

[cichlidfan]

Thanks. Yeah, the device handler is handy. I have been using TARGET for years but not done anything overly complicated. I also know about the headaches of coding anything. I used to, many years ago, work with with scripting in VMS (DCL) and Unix shells. Even though they are simple compared to C they can still drive you crazy when your hunting for that little tiny error.

[PiedDroit]

At the beginning I was also doing crazy stuff with the TARGET software (chained defer calls, complicated logics and whatnot) for testing and exploring, but I quickly stopped doing that as nothing beats the good old K.I.S.S. principle (and time tinkering is time you don't fly).

Also having clickable cockpits greatly reduces the need for complicated things in joystick profiles.

With the FC3 ships you have no choice but mapping everything if you don't want to use the keyboard...

 

I wonder why the filtered mode does not appear in the documentation, I guess it would allow too many thing that would break the scripts and it was not needed for the normal user, or maybe it was not fully tested. In the end it is the most useful feature of TARGET in my opinion, I don't have any issues with it as long as I keep things simple.

[Questlove]

Pied, I have a TM16000 stick and throttle combo. I use Voice attack with most of my FC planes. I just bought the A-10C and use the A-10C Sim controls. For actions/commands without an already assigned keyboard push/input I've added one, which wasn't used by something else. For example, to turn the battery switch on I assigned LCtrl + H. However, that won't turn the power switch on via Voice Attack. Pressing LCtrl + H on the keyboard won't even turn it on. Some things do work, however. Saying F1 puts me in the cockpit.

 

I've read all the way through from the OP and do have TARGET but you guys might as well be speaking Aztec. Do you have any simple ways I could solve this issue?

[PiedDroit]

Pied, I have a TM16000 stick and throttle combo. I use Voice attack with most of my FC planes. I just bought the A-10C and use the A-10C Sim controls. For actions/commands without an already assigned keyboard push/input I've added one, which wasn't used by something else. For example, to turn the battery switch on I assigned LCtrl + H. However, that won't turn the power switch on via Voice Attack. Pressing LCtrl + H on the keyboard won't even turn it on. Some things do work, however. Saying F1 puts me in the cockpit.

 

I've read all the way through from the OP and do have TARGET but you guys might as well be speaking Aztec. Do you have any simple ways I could solve this issue?

 

Hi,

Before going any further you should make sure that your new keyboard assignment works, using the keyboard directly.

If it doesn't work in DCS, anything you try (TARGET profile, VoiceAttack) will not work, even if it generates LCtrl+H correctly, because DCS won't even take it.

 

Is it possible you made the keyboard shortcut assignment in "Game" instead of "Sim" controls section?

[Questlove]

I've used my keyboard, additional assignments with it and voice attack for all the FC3 planes without incident for the 4 or so months I've been playing DCS. In that time, everything has worked without incident. Also, I use the set up with the Mi-8 with the same result.

 

I use a TM 16000 stick and throttle w/o pedals. I just bought the A-10C mod in this Summer sale we had 2 weeks ago. The one thing I did change for just 1 day was using a Warthog stick with DCS instead of my TM 16000. I use it for about 2 hours and I'm pretty sure I just played the Su-33 with it because it doesn't have a rudder axis on it, which I need because of a unique personal situation. That being said, I don't think I messed wit it while setting up my Voice Attack and keyboard bindings for the A-10C Sim dropdown and even if I did, I've gone back and checked and rechecked everything multiple times.

 

You said make sure the, "assignment works using the keyboard directly." I checked and after 3 assignments (one using LCtrl + H, one with LShift + LCtrl + Insert and the last was simply the "I" key) none worked. Not only that but my throttle's thrust axis (Z) didn't move the plane's throttle but the rudder on the throttle did move the plane's floor pedals. I think we've found the issue as I've cleared the rudder axis on the throttle in settings and it isn't paying attention. That Warthog HOTAS made something in there stop paying attention to my (and DCS' vanilla in game commands) and it's reading something else as the master. I guess TARGET? Can I just stop TARGET from interfering?

[PiedDroit]

You said make sure the, "assignment works using the keyboard directly." I checked and after 3 assignments (one using LCtrl + H, one with LShift + LCtrl + Insert and the last was simply the "I" key) none worked.

This something in DCS... What happens if you unplug all your devices, and try LCtrl+H again?

 

Not only that but my throttle's thrust axis (Z) didn't move the plane's throttle but the rudder on the throttle did move the plane's floor pedals. I think we've found the issue as I've cleared the rudder axis on the throttle in settings and it isn't paying attention. That Warthog HOTAS made something in there stop paying attention to my (and DCS' vanilla in game commands) and it's reading something else as the master. I guess TARGET? Can I just stop TARGET from interfering?

TARGET can't interfere on it's own, the only thing it can do is create a virtual device called "Thrustmaster Combined" and also generate keyboard keys.

 

Looks like you have controller conflicts, make sure an axis is not assigned on two different controllers, if you never used TARGET before, I assume the default axis are mapped on the Thrustmaster Combined device, which you need to remove in DCS control panel.

 

Only once you sorted out the issues with DCS you can start fiddling with your TARGET profile.

[Questlove]

I unplugged Track IR, throttle and stick. All keyboard keys worked this time. I went back out and "uncombined" my 16000 and throttle. I Deleted all the TM files then downloaded everything over. I plugged in the throttle and stick w/o running anything from TM. I opened DCS, A10C controls and made sure it recognized the stick and throttle individually, which it did. I opened A10C and nothing worked, as before.

 

I backed out of the A10C and switched to the su-33 with no issues at all.