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Unable to land the Spitfire; any tips?


Jamesp1
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I just can't land this thing without dipping a wingtip.

 

 

I think the issue is that I need to be going slowly enough that my rear wheel will contact the ground before the front wheels or all three wheels together.

 

 

This means the plane needs to have a high AOA and I'm kind of stalling it enough to not come down exactly level, or I get little bit of a bounce which is not quite even and enough to bouce me into an angle and tip a wing.

 

 

I'm think part of the issue is that the nose is so big I can't see the horizon to keep myself exactly level (am using the bank indicator in the last seconds) and it takes away my situational awareness.

 

 

Anyone have any tips? I've read the taildragger sticky already.

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Try to remember the attitude when sitting on the ground.

Get the same attitude when passing the fence.

 

Wait for the flare until the runway raises over your ears.

 

I did had the same issue myself, left wingtip dragging the ground during rollout.

OK now.

:thumbup:

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I think the issue is that I need to be going slowly enough that my rear wheel will contact the ground before the front wheels or all three wheels together.

Yes. Do your approach as usual. Hold the plane off the runway at a foot or two until it stops flying.

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Unable to land the Spitfire; any tips?

 

Use your mouse on your brake handle and set them to just under 4 on the brake pressure gauge (lower left of instrument panel). Now when you touch down go full aft stick. The little bit of breaks will give you control on the roll out. Move the rudders quickly back and forth like a flint stone on the rudder pedals. That will keep you straight and the breaks will slow you down without having to apply them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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I've just made this video today.

I hope it helps you

And never forget, a pilot greatest virtue is to know when to run.

What's this, a joke? Run away from a fight?

Yes! If you cannot win, you fly away! Fast!

It's a thin line between cowardice and cleverness.

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Once your wheels are on the ground Keep your needle centered on your turn indicator. Do not let it go on one side for too long. You really have to work the rudders or it will go too far. you might have to use a bit of brakes once you slow down or if you are about to lose control.

Needle.jpg.47230a5012f5ecc9bc738d7c60ea3b7e.jpg


Edited by Pilsner
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#1 )Rule of WW2 DCS-tell the world how great it is

#2) Rule of WW2 DCS, you must fly the aircraft from brake release to taxi speed heading back to the hanger. Touchdown as mentioned above but just cuz your three wheels are on deck doesnt mean a wing cant dip and ding, fly it all the way to taxi speed.

on

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At first it's a good idea to land without flaps. This gives you a much lower sink rate, your touchdown angle will be shallow(er), you'll have less bounce induced wandering, but most important - you'll spend much more time at that "hanging in ground effect" phase that you need to get the plane straight and stable just before touchdown.

 

Yes - preload the brakes a bit. The brakes on the Spit are slaved to the rudder(watch the indicator while you use brakes and move rudder) so some brake pressure(3lbs?) = much better rudder effectiveness.

 

Come in about 100 or 110, start your flare and just hold it a couple of feet off the runway.

Keep it straight with rudder. As you slow you'll need more and more back stick to hold off.

Keep it straight with rudder. At some point it will touch down with your stick full(or almost full) back.

Keep it straight with rudder. Keep the stick full back and get on the brakes.

Keep it straight with rudder. I usually have to let off the brakes at the end to keep the tail down.

 

These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44.

Once you can make good landings with no flaps and some brake pre-load try landing with flaps, then try with reduced brake pressure.


Edited by Perfesser
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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

 

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

 

And you have first hand experience to counter this I assume?

 

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

 

LoL!

 

I find it a beautiful handling thing. Much prefer it to any of the other props we have in DCS. And when you learn to get the landings right, you can grease it in by the numbers every time.

 

The main issue is people not spending enough time and effort dealing with the pitch curve and saturation levels for their particular controller.

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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

 

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

 

Well, that's one opinion. The wrong one, but hey, it's a free world!

 

The Spitfire, like all tail draggers is a lot harder to land than you think. It has a narrow undercarriage, and you have to cope with a lot of contradictory forces, that change a lot during the landing phase.

 

With practice, it'll come, and they you can start to really show off with wheeler landings. It is just a very demanding phase of flight.

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And you have first hand experience to counter this I assume?
You should have waited a bit longer to play your trump card (as probably the only one here who has actually flown in one).

What say you then? Any near wingtip dragging? Any near ground loops?

 

 

We've all read plenty on the Spit.

I've never heard any wartime spit pilot say it was hard to land or difficult to handle on the ground. On the contrary, everything I've ever seen said the opposite.

As easy as it might get it's still always going to be a 2,000 hp taildragger and will always need to be handled with respect.

 

Besides, this isn't the place for an in depth talk about it's handling, that is well covered. Just want to help this guy learn to land this thing in steps, easier to harder.


Edited by Perfesser
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The Kurfürst has narrow gear, and it handles very well. I have all the WWII tail draggers, and none of their FMs are in as bad a shape as the Spitfire. So it flies the way one person likes. Consider yourself lucky. You are the exception, and the exception usually proves the rule. Why else all the complaints about the Spitfire?

TWC_SLAG

 

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The Kurfürst has narrow gear, and it handles very well. I have all the WWII tail draggers, and none of their FMs are in as bad a shape as the Spitfire. So it flies the way one person likes. Consider yourself lucky. You are the exception, and the exception usually proves the rule. Why else all the complaints about the Spitfire?

 

As I said, nice that you have an opinion all of your own. Historically, there were a few minor niggles, that have long ago been rectified.

 

The most often quoted statements - which coincided with the release of Normandy were that the Spitfire had suddenly become easier to fly. Everyone falsely assumed there had been a change to the Spitfire modelling.

 

All of that was denied by ED, and it was just a collective realisation that they could land the Spitfire.

 

Go practice some more, and don't confuse your in-built muscle memory for the Bf-109 with better modelling. The two just handle differently, and the Spitfire is absolutely fine in it's ground handling and low speed flying characteristics.

 

"It must be broke cuz I can't do it" isn't really an analytical assessment.

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"It must be broke cuz I can't do it" isn't really an analytical assessment."

 

Neither is "it must be fine because I can do it." But, I will keep on trying, in the hope things will improve.

TWC_SLAG

 

Win 10 64 bit, 2T Hard Drive, 1T SSD, 500GB SSD, ASUS Prime Z390 MB, Intel i9 9900 Coffee Lake 3.6mhz CPU, ASUS 2070 Super GPU, 32gb DDR4 Ram, Track IR5, 49" 4K 60hz, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Voice Attack, hp Reverb G2.

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Have you tried to reduce the rpm to 0 when you are on final?. That is what i do, and when i touch down. I don't have to do anything else, but to press "w" to brake. I don't have rudder pedals.

And never forget, a pilot greatest virtue is to know when to run.

What's this, a joke? Run away from a fight?

Yes! If you cannot win, you fly away! Fast!

It's a thin line between cowardice and cleverness.

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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

 

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

 

What a load of bollocks. Thanks for the laugh mate. :megalol:

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Don't use the landing gear... perfect landing everytime.

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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

 

Hey Vinnie, your comment is getting quite some reaction.

I know you're a veteran of spit flying in sims, so I think you deserve some sensible replies.

 

In my opinion, handling the spit on the ground, and in the "circuit" is something that can be picked up quite quickly. Once adapted to, you can drive her around the airfield and conduct takeoffs and landings with, shall we say, "mild discomfort".

 

Some suggestions:

I'd pull the saturation back on the Rudder input curve to about 50%.

You need quite a lot of throttle on the spit to overcome inertia when stationary. But that throttle suddenly translates into too much ground speed. For this reason, I tend to use a very fast up-and-down throttle when I'm trying to overcome that inertia, when changing from stationary to taxy-ing. I ramp up to 80% or so, and then back down to almost idle before the aircraft shows any visible signs of moving. In the time it takes me to say "reeeow" (you know, the sound that kids make when imitating an engine) I will advance and retard the throttle. There's a delay in transferring that to aircraft movement. If you leave the throttle "up" too long, the tourque will kick in and you'll ground loop, or wing drop.

Try to achieve "walking pace only" in the DCS spit. Speed adjustment requires the same approach described above. A sudden increase and decrease in throttle works much better than a slight increase which is sustained. One the ground speed gets up, you're better off just firwalling and trying to get airborne than trying to bring the aircraft to a standstill again!

 

This thinking also seems to apply to rudder operation on the ground. Sudden full-to-none changes in rudder input seem far more effective at arresting nose-swing than a steady and considered rudder input.

People (me included) talk about "dancing on the rudder", but that sounds like lots of light fleet footed inputs (aka tap dancing).

However, what I find works is a more infantile "stomping" on the rudder. I tend to smash in full rudder in one or other direction, and then my foot is back off the rudder in an instant. It's a brutal and jarring approach, rather than a gentle coercion.

 

I also taxy with my brakes set partially "on" the whole time. This is becasue I don't have a physical brake lever like the real thing which I can operate in tandem with the stick. IRL, the ergonomics of the cockpit make the brake/rudder system work. For us, with odd assortments of controllers, we have to compromise.

Once in the air, life is totally different. You can fly with a single finger, especially if you have an extended control column. tiny touches of rudder and elevator in particular will give you signficant responses. And, at low RPM (2000 to 2300), the aircraft will fly by itself, even in a climbng or decensing turn; she will hold a trimmed attitude almost in perpetuity. At higher RPM (aove 2500) it gets harder.

 

As a final point, be wary of the old pilot talk about spitfire handling.

Many of those guys had limited experience in multiple types of aircraft. In addition, many of them ignore/forget or fail to mention the issues with handling these aircraft such as pecking’ or ‘bogging' (nosing over and breaking props - which happened a LOT).

 

Also, a lot of the WW2 pilots seem to forget that they had Ground Crews sitting on the tailplane to prevent ground looping. There's even the famous case of Margaret Horton (1945), who ended up still on the tailplane when the aircraft got airbone!

http://britishairshows.com/features_sitting_on_tail_of_spitfire.html

 

The two-seater spits are quite famous for ground looping too, with Jokes about it being almost a rite-of-passgae for these machines. This thread dates back to 2009:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?87470-Spitfire-Tr-9-landing-accident-in-New-Zealand-15-1-09&p=1349148#post1349148


Edited by philstyle

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

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These are all band-aids and patches to help with the flight model that isn't yet as it should be. This isn't (yet) the "flies without a vice", "obeys every command" Spit that your Grandpa flew in '44

 

 

 

Why, then, did ED put it out in such a terrible condition? You have to wonder.

 

 

 

You have some valid points but I think knocking the flight model is a little too broad of a brush approach. Personally coming from the real world and flying many different aircraft in real life. I would say the spit flies fantastic. I do believe it's about 20mph to slow but other then that, once trimmed it does fly without a vice. However, ground handling in a different story. It is a bit twitchy and difficult to control on the ground. I think the ground physics need to be toned down a bit. I have 1,000's of real world landings over the last 20 years and it took a good 60 in the spit before I could successfully pull it off. The P51 is the opposite, it feels very unreal on the ground while the spit is a little too real. So IMHO when talking about the Spit it has to be separated between flight physics (great) and ground physics (needs some work).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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