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how the hell can i beat the spitfire


shab249
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its imposible!

i can beat the p-51 but the spitfire is too good someone can show me how to?

 

Get above her, boom and zoom or wait for the perfect momwnt to drop in it's turning circle to shoot it

 

I'm sure there are lots of videos on yt of people in the dora shooting spits

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If you are playing SP, it's not easy to kill a spitfire, Dora, or 109 especially. Although I cannot really say that the AI spitfire is harder for sure because I have rarely tried to dogfight the AI Spit. Maybe a few times with the 109. I should add that skill level of the AI, and fuel level can greatly improve your chances of killing them. Take a bit of their brain power and add a few pounds to them and they become a bit more sluggish. But on high skill level with compatible weight, they're a nightmare for any pilot to go up against.

For reasons I do not know, the AI P-51 has always been easiest for me to kill, and then the Dora next to that. But I can easily dispatch the AI P-51 with most any WWii planes. As we all know, the FM for the AI is not a good measure of the planes actual performance so you cannot really go off of it.

On line however is a different story altogether. I have had guys get on my 6 in any given plane and I just cannot get rid of them. And by the same term, I have done the same to others. I think the on line fights are largely about who has the better skills and who stays calm when they run into a bandit. I have found on several occasions that most other planes can just fly away from me if I'm in the Spitfire when I get them into my sights. But I can easily gun inexperienced fighters down in it by just out turning them and bleeding their energy if they let me. I do not fly the Spit a lot so I am not very experienced at how to really use it effectively. But I am good with the 109 and can keep on a Spitfire long enough to wear him out on line. I make far fewer mistakes in the 109 than I do in the Spitfire.

 

Just my 2 cents........for what it is worth.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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its imposible!

i can beat the p-51 but the spitfire is too good someone can show me how to?

It's not impossible.. You have to carefully choose WHEN to engage, and never get caught in a turning fight.


Edited by amazingme

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  • 2 weeks later...
I'm curious how you guys would fight a Spit if it was up as high as the German planes?

 

Dive away, let him follow, climb up and you are higher than him

 

Or

 

If it isn't a experienced pilot, turnfight him and trust me, i've already did that a few times with a win in the end

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You beat a Spit turn fighting in a Dora?

 

I think i'd wait for you to climb back up and get you when your speed was low from the climb.

 

no, with the K4, but i beat one with scisoring

 

note, I'm always climbing without mw50 and with around 400kph, just that i'm not slow

 

and when you wait up there' i'm just going to do a 180 course change, climb and be on your six (if you lost me)

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I wouldn't fight a K4. It's an un-historic battle. This is a Dora forum and I thought that's what you meant.

 

Well, I can do the same run-away tactic I do with the K4 in the D9, no problem there

 

Of course it is unhistoric yet, and this is not the only example...

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Well, I can do the same run-away tactic I do with the K4 in the D9, no problem there

 

Of course it is unhistoric yet, and this is not the only example...

 

It's too bad too. ED knew we were getting Normandy. Why not give us a historic plane set? The K4 is too good right now for the other planes. I'm not sure the G models wouldn't the same, so maybe it's not as important as it appears.

 

I always liked flying the 109's in IL2 and i'm sure i'll buy it at some point. I don't blame anybody for wanting to fly it.

Buzz

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It's too bad too. ED knew we were getting Normandy. Why not give us a historic plane set? The K4 is too good right now for the other planes. I'm not sure the G models wouldn't the same, so maybe it's not as important as it appears.

 

I always liked flying the 109's in IL2 and i'm sure i'll buy it at some point. I don't blame anybody for wanting to fly it.

 

It's not too good, but it surely helps the pilot, but in the end, a skilled pilot can beat a K4 and the D9

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That doesn't always work. Can a good pilot in another plane beat a good pilot in the K4? The plane makes a difference and can't always be compensated with pilot skills.

 

In WW2 most of the better German pilots were gone by the time the K4 showed up. That's not the case in DCS.

Buzz

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That doesn't always work. Can a good pilot in another plane beat a good pilot in the K4? The plane makes a difference and can't always be compensated with pilot skills.

 

In WW2 most of the better German pilots were gone by the time the K4 showed up. That's not the case in DCS.

 

Skill, tactics and equipment make differences. And if both skills are equal (which will never happen) then i don't know how the result will look like...

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You guys are kind of splitting hairs. The K4 went into regular production in August 1944. In a truly historical scenario by the time of the D-day invasion, there were absolutely no Luftwaffe planes over Normandy. Most were at the time defending German airspace against the daily bombing raids.

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You guys are kind of splitting hairs. The K4 went into regular production in August 1944. In a truly historical scenario by the time of the D-day invasion, there were absolutely no Luftwaffe planes over Normandy. Most were at the time defending German airspace against the daily bombing raids.

 

 

True but didn't they bring the planes to Normandy later?

Buzz

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That doesn't always work. Can a good pilot in another plane beat a good pilot in the K4? The plane makes a difference and can't always be compensated with pilot skills.

 

In WW2 most of the better German pilots were gone by the time the K4 showed up. That's not the case in DCS.

 

The problem again here is that most play Air Quake Multiplayer with the most accurately built simulation of these plane sets to date and want it to be a nice fair fight at sea level?

 

Yes the 109 is generally the easier plane to use in combat if used somewhat correctly at “sea level” but there will always be someone with a better skill level and trained more in their favourite aircraft tho.

 

The P-47 “will be” the least competent fighter plane in the existing DCS line up right?

 

But if used correctly…..Like IRL...

 

“Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe, was particularly adept at this strategy. The top scoring ace in the European Theater, Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th, brought down 28 German aircraft with his Thunderbolt."

 

The P-47's initial success in combat was primarily due to tactics, using rolls (the P-47 had an excellent roll rate) and energy-saving dive and zoom climbs from high altitude to outmanoeuvre German fighters.

 

No German piston-engined aircraft could out-dive the Thunderbolt. It could reach speeds of 550 mph (480 kn, 885 km/h)

 

The P-47 will be like a freight train with eight .50 caliber guns with thirty seconds of fire (3400 rounds)

 

I'm really starting to look forward to the P-47 and try some boom and zoom tactics on the 109 and 190.

 

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-07022008-013657/unrestricted/courter_thesis.pdf

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/P-47_versus_FW-190.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt

-


Edited by David OC

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It can dive faster than that. Bud Anderson said he got it up the 700 mph in a dive and it pulled out of it too. Took some air space but it pulled out.

 

I'm not flying the Jug because I think it's the best dogfighter. I know it's not. There are lots of reasons to pick a plane. I have a lot of them for the P-47. One thing is for sure. You won't see me flying it solo in a furball. I'd deserve to die if I did.

 

I want historic missions with good mates to fly with.

 

I hope we don't have to wait too long for it.

Buzz

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its imposible!

i can beat the p-51 but the spitfire is too good someone can show me how to?

 

Dogfighting co-E versus the AI is pretty hard in the Dora against the Spit. However, in actual online gameplay I generally consider the Spitfire the least significant threat when flying the Dora. Why? Well the Spitfire is just too slow, as long as you're not low and slow on the deck (a position you should never put yourself in when flying the Dora), then you can always just dive away and run from a Spitfire. They'll never catch you.

 

“Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe, was particularly adept at this strategy. The top scoring ace in the European Theater, Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th, brought down 28 German aircraft with his Thunderbolt."

 

The P-47's initial success in combat was primarily due to tactics, using rolls (the P-47 had an excellent roll rate) and energy-saving dive and zoom climbs from high altitude to outmanoeuvre German fighters.

 

I love the P-47, and I think that in many ways it was the plane that broke the Luftwaffe, and not the P-51. By the time the P-51 arrived on the scene in significant numbers the Luftwaffe was essentially already defeated.

 

That said the P-47 had most of its success fighting earlier model 109s and 190s ... not the late war monsters that we have in DCS. For example the Dora is also an excellent diver (and roller), and is a lot faster than the P-47 on the deck. The 109 K4 is a monster all the way up to high-altitude, where the P-47 would normally shine. Of course, by this late stage of the war it didn't much matter: the allies had total domination in numbers and resources. However that isn't modelled in DCS ...

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  • 2 months later...
its imposible!

i can beat the p-51 but the spitfire is too good someone can show me how to?

 

 

I have to ask... how do you beat the p-51?

 

I can now take off and usually land the Dora (Yay! Only took three weeks of practice. About twenty hours :joystick:) so I've been celebrating with the instant action dogfight.

 

The only thing I've come up with is running away, turning and trying to kill the thing head on, but without success.

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I have to ask... how do you beat the p-51?

 

I can now take off and usually land the Dora (Yay! Only took three weeks of practice. About twenty hours :joystick:) so I've been celebrating with the instant action dogfight.

 

The only thing I've come up with is running away, turning and trying to kill the thing head on, but without success.

The damn thing cant climb and cant over speed

I get speed (if i have to by running around) get up and dogfight him in my rules (much more energy)

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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The damn thing cant climb and cant over speed

I get speed (if i have to by running around) get up and dogfight him in my rules (much more energy)

 

 

Yeah, I've worked out the climb and speed thing. tbh I probably need to get a lot more bfm practice in before I attempt to fight, rather than getting overconfident just because I can generally make the thing go where I want it to and trim etc.

 

Edit: I've just had a quick look to see how long it took WWII pilots to be regarded as proficient enough to fight. About two hundred hours, apparently. Depending on theatre and where you look. :/


Edited by Red Hayek
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I'm finding that the Dora is actually quite capable if you use it right. The 190 airframe doesn't get the greatest climb rate initially, however once you are at altitude you have all the energy in the world with it.

 

It is capable of extremely high speed dives and retains a ton of energy climbing out of it, though you have to be gentle with the stick when going fast.. pull out of high speed dives with stabilizer.

 

Of course, input rudder to keep the slip ball centered when climbing or in general when you can think to do so.. I have to put a hefty curve on my crosswinds because they're really touchy.

 

The idea is, when you take off, you want to have a higher altitude than the enemy by at least 1000-1500 meters and more isn't bad at all as long as you know how to slow down if you're diving too fast. The 190 frame can gain MOST of it's altitude back from a dive into a climb if you let it.. so take your time and be patient. Try to be the guy diving in on the unsuspecting spit/p-51 pilot. You can BnZ all day against any opponent if you have enough of an energy advantage, it's when you start to turn that you're putting yourself at risk, but not necessarily in a solo engagement. The 190 has an extremely high roll rate. P-51's and spit's that get the jump on you will be hard pressed to follow you into a split-S and get a shot. You can drag them down into their critical speeds where they might rip ailerons or wings off if they pull too hard and quickly transition into rolling scissors.. your roll rate is superior. When they get close chop the throttle enough to get behind them, and them go full power with the mw-50 engaged to keep that position, throttling down as needed to avoid the overshoot.

 

The 190 CAN turn using take off flaps (stage one of two, 10 degrees) between 300-450ish km/h but you still have to be gentle with the stick, and using stabilizer to assist with turning can go a long way. Unless you're using an FFB stick you have to be extra attentive of the sounds of buffeting and shaking. If you pull the stick beyond her limits she will go into a flat spin.

 

You can rope a dope a spit if you start with enough distance between you and him behind you, you're going reasonably fast, 500-700km/h IAS before you pull up to a 300km/h climb, start to turn left slightly and go straight vertical looking down behind you to watch him fall when you drop the rope... at which point you throttle to zero and hammerhead down on top of him attempting to get a shot. The 109's climb rate is more suited to this tactic than the 190, but if you have the energy advantage or are putting enough distance between you and the spit.. you can probably force him to stall before he can shoot you if he's inexperienced enough to follow you up.. and if he doesn't follow you up? You can then dive on him and put him in the defensive.

 

In most cases you probably want to stick to BnZ.. which means try to climb to the advantageous altitude before you think you'll even come across an enemy.. dive on them..shoot if you have the sight picture, pull back up rather than engage in a turn fight and get your altitude while keeping an eye on your target and checking your 6.. since he started with less altitude and therefore less energy..he won't be able to follow you up.. his only defense is to turn sharply, split S, or try to lure you into a turn battle/scissors and hope you don't get a well placed deflection shot. You can turn with him briefly.. but you want most of your speed to regain your altitude so you can reset, stay behind it, and make another approach.

 

Watching a documentary starring pilots from the Battle of Brittain, the allied pilots exclaimed that the chance of success of their missions depended largely on whether or not they could climb to a high enough altitude within the 5-6 minutes of time they had to scramble off the ground and respond to the calls from the early warning radar and stop the bomb raids in time. With out the altitude to exchange for speed and energy, they would be sitting ducks for the german fighters escorting the bombers. That and having to turn around to chase a bomber already level and at speed flying towards his target while climbing increases the chance of the enemy's successful ground strike, as you basically have to turn around...climb some more and maintain enough speed to catch up to him.

 

Have patience.. try to think your actions through.. turn fighting is a last resort, that while it can be done successfully in the FW-190 airframe, will leave you a sitting duck if any of his friends join in the fray before you can kill him and regain your altitude energy. It's better sometimes just to extend away and reapproach the situation after you've managed to regain some altitude or drag the guy tailing you to a friendly waiting to pounce down on him.. and in that case.. do go evasive..but don't pull the stick too hard unless you've got good distance, no other visable bogey's and it's straight up so the inexperienced pilot behind you tries to follow and stalls..practically sitting still for the guy coming in behind him to save you.

 

If you've got a wingman saying "im closing in for a shot" it is NOT the time to yank the stick and break hard right.. we ain't got no Sidewinder missles. and it's easier to shoot someone in the 6 than go for high AoA deflection shots.


Edited by Headwarp
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Wait till the Me262 arrives, if properly simulated then people are gonna really start whining about how unfair it is.

 

That being said I don't believe the 190 is properly simulated in this game, Crumpp and I conducted several tests and compared it with original documentation to confirm this, but the devs disagreed with our conclusions and its their game.


Edited by Hummingbird
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