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Am I landing wrong or is there an issue with the F-5 brakes?


crudboy12
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I can't seem safely land the F-5e with 2 sidewinders and gun ammo on a 2km runway without using my chute. I touch down at around 160 knots; and deploy spoilers and start braking immediately. I cannot safely bring the plane to a stop at the end of the runway. If I brake too hard, it skids, but that even doesn't slow it down fast enough. Is this realistic?

The jet can take off really quickly, but to land on many of the runways in DCS, I have to use the chute. It seems to me like the F-5 should stop a lot faster then it does, at the moment the jet feels like it is on ice. Judging from the other American jets in the game, such as the F-86 and A-10, the ground handling is way off. (Yes I know, these aircraft have ABS)

 

I did some research and could not find a definitive answer (one guy claimed 10,000 ft was pushing it), but with all the different versions people don't always seem to agree on how much space was needed to land.

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-483208.html

 

Has anyone else explored this topic? I love the jet, but this has always bothered me.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21.

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just to test it, i loaded up the f5 take off mission, accelerated to 160 kts, then aborted the takeoff and was able to stop before reaching the end of the runway, no chute. I just cut throttle and then stabbed the brakes repeatedly until it stopped. And I wasnt able to reach 160 till about halfway down the run way, so a normal landing would be no problem.

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I can't seem safely land the F-5e with 2 sidewinders and gun ammo on a 2km runway without using my chute. I touch down at around 160 knots; and deploy spoilers and start braking immediately. I cannot safely bring the plane to a stop at the end of the runway. If I brake too hard, it skids, but that even doesn't slow it down fast enough. Is this realistic?

The jet can take off really quickly, but to land on many of the runways in DCS, I have to use the chute. It seems to me like the F-5 should stop a lot faster then it does, at the moment the jet feels like it is on ice. Judging from the other American jets in the game, such as the F-86 and A-10, the ground handling is way off. (Yes I know, these aircraft have ABS)

 

I did some research and could not find a definitive answer (one guy claimed 10,000 ft was pushing it), but with all the different versions people don't always seem to agree on how much space was needed to land.

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-483208.html

 

Has anyone else explored this topic? I love the jet, but this has always bothered me.

 

 

Sometimes explaining how I do something isn't very easy even though I can do it quite well. I had similar problems when I first started with the F-5. I had to use the chute every time. Braking seemed like it was a real problem. Nut just like all of the modules in DCS, once you get the jest of it, it becomes second nature.

I touch down around 150, but this depends on my load but I never hit the runway slower than that and not very much faster. If you flare right at the end of the runway and you are doing 175 or so, you'll slow to 150 pretty quickly and the plane just sets itself down pretty handily. From there it all about applying wheel breaks steadily, applying more or less on one or the other depending on the sway of the aircraft. I never give it full brakes. Maybe 3/4 or so. If I remember correctly, I have about +10% curve set on my wheel brakes to make it easier to slow down without them grabbing too much.

I know that everyone is different and a lot of guys have their way of doing it, but this is what works well for me. Hope I helped just a little bit. :smilewink:

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did you try pumping the brakes? gotta drive it like a car with no ABS. Get as much stopping power as you can and if it starts to skid, let off and then reapply pressure right up to the skidding point.

I normally apply as much pressure as I can without skidding.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21.

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just to test it, i loaded up the f5 take off mission, accelerated to 160 kts, then aborted the takeoff and was able to stop before reaching the end of the runway, no chute. I just cut throttle and then stabbed the brakes repeatedly until it stopped. And I wasnt able to reach 160 till about halfway down the run way, so a normal landing would be no problem.

I can stop the jet by doing this, but my runway is covered with skid marks. Every time I "stab" the breaks the wheels lock up and leave a skid mark. I have been trying to stop by applying partial break pressure for the whole run. Possibly I need to apply more pressure. I have flown a fair bit of the jet, but I just use the chute most times, so perhaps it is worth playing around with more.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21.

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The axis on my brakes was messed up. It was a case of almost all the break pressure being applied at the same time due to the curve on it. I fixed this and I can stop on the runway without skidding if I am careful. I guess it is something the needs practice. Thanks for the help!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

A-10C, FC3, P-51, BF-109, UH-1, MI-8, KA-50, M2000C, AJS-37, Gazelle, F-5E, L-39, F-86, MiG-15, MiG-21.

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  • 3 months later...
The axis on my brakes was messed up. It was a case of almost all the break pressure being applied at the same time due to the curve on it. I fixed this and I can stop on the runway without skidding if I am careful. I guess it is something the needs practice. Thanks for the help!

 

 

 

I'm having the same issue as well as A10C brakes applying instantly when a curve is used. Did you have to stop using a curve for brake axis?

 

 

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Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer

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Funny, I watch T38s landing day and night but never see them use a chute.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Win 10, AMD FX9590/water cooled, 32GB RAM, 250GB SSD system, 1TB SSD (DCS installed), 2TB HD, Warthog HOTAS, MFG rudders, Track IR 5, LG Ultrawide, Logitech Speakers w/sub, Fans, Case, cell phone, wallet, keys.....printer

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T-38 is, depending on the configuration, 25% to 50% lighter than F-5 and most of them are not equipped with brake chutes.

 

That being said, different armies can have different procedures regarding use of brake chutes, the original manual states that the chute is for emergency, it should be possible to safely stop the aircraft using brakes only. I also find F-5 braking performance quite poor in DCS. I did a few tests and reported a bug: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=191996


Edited by some1

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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I am just curious, why don't you want to use the chute for landing? It's there for a reason. One of the reasons is that F5 does not have antiskid, another is that brakes are weak and the third one is that it is easier to repack the chute than it is to replace the brake pads.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I live near a base where Mig29s are stationed. They have pretty long runway and thay for sure can stop using only brakes, yet they always use the chute.

 

EDIT:

Only hints for braking without chute that i can give you are these:

1. Try to aero brake as long as you can (keep your nosewheel up)

2. Make sure your airbrakes are extended

3. When I tested the braking with F5, I found it to be better with threshold braking, not pumping the brakes, just be careful not to lock up.


Edited by cicimicikiller

Modules: A-10C, F-5E, L-39, F-15C

Callsign: Hawk

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The rearm/refuel packs the parachute again. It was patched quite some time ago. No reason not to use it. Try to stay off the brakes until the latest reasonable moment.

On real planes excessive use of the brakes lead to brake overheat and even burst plugs on the tyres or brake fires.

USAF are in the process of modernizing the brake assemblies on the b52 fleet after this

 

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/air-force-mechanical-failures-led-to-b-52-aborted-takeoff-fire-in-2016-guam-incident-1.465157#.WY1qMNG_xvI

 

Stay off the brakes and use every means in your disposal to stop. Not only the brakes.

If you want to stop without a parachute just for the fun of it use full speed brakes, aerodynamic braking and tuck under during the final to land as near as possible to the threshold. Then maintain brake pressure without skiding.

I'm not sure if dcs reproduces brakes temperatures or type wear though so it's not too realistic.

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