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VIDEO: Ground Effect Bug: Serious Flaw in ED's PFM


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This post is directed toward Belsimtek, but also ED. (Hi Yo-Yo! Save us!) This is intended purely as constructive criticism for an issue that I believe seriously degrades the quality of flight modeling in DCS. It may be argued that this video demonstrates silly aerobatics, but it's worth noting that this is not a request for a niche feature, but rather a bug fix. It's also worth noting that aerobatics servers are typically in the top 2 or 3 most populated servers, and this issue is not new.

 

Other users (particularly two aerobatics groups, Virtual Horsemen and Virtual Black Diamond Jet Team) have brought up this issue in the past, but the cause was unclear and not thoroughly researched. The threads quickly devolved into hearsay and confusion. I hope this will help clear things up and force some positive changes to the dramatically affected F-5 module, and others by both BST and ED.

 

The short version is this: the calculations presently employed for ground effect in many DCS aircraft have an unintended consequence. Because they use ed_fm_set_surface (or an internal equivalent,) the calculation of proximity is affected by aircraft and static objects. However, a strange side-effect exists: it seems that the calculation is affected by objects above the flight model, causing uncommanded changes in lift in such a way that can only be described by seeing it.

 

It is NOT:

  • Stall behavior
  • Network latency
  • Malfunctioning sticks
  • Crappy flying (I edited all of that out)

 

Special thanks to Rock, Aeroshell, Tango, SE, and others who contributed to the understanding needed to make this post.

 

 

2 of the formation flying tracks:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmN3Bf1HOeoRmQVRDrvjKzkLw7E8


Edited by aaron886
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Great find, guys! We'll investigate this effet thoroughly and fix it. Thank you! :thumbup:

 

Added: Video is totally awesome!

 

Good to hear! Thank you for the quick response, I'm looking forward to the fix. :)

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Wow. Amazing bug report. That being said, please don't fix the bug for helicopters. Or at least, make sure objects below still count for ground effect. Landing on buildings and bridges would be awful hard without it.

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Is this the same bug that's been in 2.0 since release? Where you fly under a bridge or try to hover a helo under a canopy and it begins to float?

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Great investigation, report, and video.

 

Off topic: Who are the virtual aerobatic teams that fly the F5, and are any looking to bring on board newbies? I've been wanting to start trying to fly formation with people and only dipped a toe in the VA servers. F5 is my favorite module, and I'd love to get into this, but would need some serious practice/training.

 

Back on topic: So, is this something that can be currently fixed by each player by modifying game files? I'm guessing it will break integrity check, so we're up a creek unless ED puts an official fix in place, right?

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Is this the same bug that's been in 2.0 since release? Where you fly under a bridge or try to hover a helo under a canopy and it begins to float?

 

Not just 2.0, 1.5 as well.. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2628613#post2628613

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Thank you for all the effort put in the video Aaron! Thanks as well to the devs who gonna take care of this ;) :)

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this thread really needs the attention of ED, and not only BST.

 

just tried this with the 109, and flying under a bridge will cause the same yaw effect like shown in the vid with the P51. and why yaw at all? thats something which makes me even more convinced that there is something seriously flawed with the rudder and yaw effects in dcs. also not too reassuring that its users who find that bug, which is probably existent for a couple of years. wonder how many other such flaws are deeply hidden in the FM.

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Yeah, it showed up in 1.5 after the 2.0 release.

 

Just begs the question why this is only getting looked at now over a year later, after it's already been posted about.

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My Pit Build, VKB Gunfighter Pro w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals, Cougar MFDs, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer

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Yeah, it showed up in 1.5 after the 2.0 release.

 

Just begs the question why this is only getting looked at now over a year later, after it's already been posted about.

 

Doesnt matter, its getting looked at now, please keep this thread clean for any new information on this bug please.

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