How to get properly aligned for landing?

[Precog]

Forget the ball and all that stuff. Keep it simple. Just keep the nose aligned with the runway and correct any drift with aileron. This applies through final approach and flare.

[artmustel]

In my opinion, I would need to master flight controls first because it seems to be my bigger problem with this flight sim. And, for starters, I found flight stick to be way too sensitive; very small movements on the axis yield more plane movement than I pretend. Even if i forget about landing on this mission, just wanting to fly centered over the rw, I don't get it right.

 

That is the reason I've been playing with axis curves, deadzones, even saturation, to no avail. I know my flightstick is not the best but it should be good enough to be able to have a good aircraft control. Flightstick is a TM -T X. I believe it is similar to the Hotas X, just without a separate throttle control. I just bought it to substitute an old Logitech Attack3 hoping that joystick was the cause of these issues. As it seems it was not, then has to be me.

 

As Bleech mentioned, I should try landing patterns, and I will. I need to forget for a while this Final Approach Lochini. But first I need to correct my plane control issues; see if i find any combination that reduces sensitivity or something like that. If someone has this same Joystick, Thrustmaster T-Stick X, and kindly would share its settings with me, I will appreciate it very much. And again, thanks to all that have tried to help! :smilewink:

[Blech]

Hi,

 

The reviews for your TM -T X on amazon aren`t bad. It should work

Try different settings

 

Just for Fun (Track and Starting mission)

No Throttle

No Pedals/Rudder until Touch Down

Only Pitch and Roll

 

 

As I tried to align with the Pedals/Rudder after the Touch Down - I hit for 1 sec the left toe brake on the Pedals and crashed :D

But this is not the subject and I don`t want to start a second run

 

I want you to show that with some practice (estimate : altitude vs distance vs speed ) even unrealistic maneuvers are possible in a short distance to the runway

and that the runway is long enough and if not, you can roll out in the field when practice landings ( but I crashed )

[artmustel]

Hi Blech and thanks for the files you posted, I will study them.

 

Now a question about something I need to have clear before trying anything else: is it normal that, at the starting of any flying mission, or the Lochini one, the plane jerks around before I touch the controls? Also is it normal that on every flying mission plane is diving at start and I need an absurd amount of trimming?

 

I just want to make sure that there isn't actually something in my setup that is making it more difficult than it is already :cry:

 

 

Thanks!

[Blech]

Hi,

 

 

Have you tested this ?

 

 

" ... For some reason it starts for me in a deep dive, ..."

I guess you have the throttle at 0 when the mission starts

Move the throttle to 50 % before you start the mission

100 % can kill your "cold" engine

[artmustel]

Yes Blech, I tried it as soon as you told me so, but still it does the same.

 

The track and miz you sent me are just what I needed, I am pretty sure that with your help I will get this right. Thank you a bunch!

 

 

I just tried your miz...results are far from good but I know I am "on track" now

BlechMiz.trk

Edited March 5, 2017 by artmustel

[Blech]

I just tried your miz...results are far from good but I know I am "on track" now

[ATTACH]158442[/ATTACH]

 

Hi,

 

:thumbup: No - it`s good

 

 

Regarding your settings / problems

 

 

The Stick has a Thrustmaster-Driver

https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/product/tflightstickx-en/

 

I am not shure, but Plug & Play and the Standard-Windows driver should be okay

 

 

What would I do ?

 

Check the Joystick in the Game Controller-Panel

Game Controller-Panel looks like this

http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/112751/gamepad-default-trigger-identification-in-windows

 

Has the movement of any axis an impact to other axis ?

Twisting the ruder may have a little impact on pitch/roll ( one stick for 3 axis ) - therefore you can define the deadzones

Jittering ?

 

 

Check DCS-Option settings - in different TABS

Easy Flight - off

Easy Avionics - off

Sync on Mission Start - on

Random System Failures - off

Force Feedback - off

Special - P51D - Autoruder - off

 

 

Test another USB-port

 

 

Delete the folder with the P-51D user-defined-settings and make all new in DCS \ Options \ Controls \ P-51D Real

 

C:\Users\ xxx \Saved Games\DCS\Config\Input\P-51D

[artmustel]

I checked all the settings as you suggested above, they are exactly like you wrote.

 

 

Hehe, here is a new attempt at the mission you sent me, I feel this time its better (at least I survived it )

 

 

 

BlechMiz_2.trk

 

 

Thank you so much, man...

[Blech]

Hi,

 

A tip - as you have only a few buttons on the stick

 

You can combine a MODIFIER with your Head-Button ( that one, to look around )

Use Up, Down, Left, Right

 

It can be useful to have one hand on the joystick and to avoid to have both hands on the keyboard for keyboard commands like xxx + yyy + z

 

 

Controls \ P-51D Real

MODIFIERS -> ADD -> e.g. LCtrl, RCtrl

 

LCtrl e.g.

Active Pause on/off

Trimmers reset

 

 

RCtrl -> screenshot -> move the view to four directions

That will give you a better view e.g.

* behind the stick to the weapon panel

* outside while taxiing

Recenter with num5

 

 

--

Edited March 6, 2017 by Blech

[artmustel]

Great sug Blech, I didn't know there was such a view to the left and right like those, they are great for taxiing. I also added another modifier to the hat and now I use it also for trimming. 3 hats in one, wow!

 

Thanks :pilotfly:

[sawbuck]

artmustel, I have to say this thread is very informative. I've been struggling to get consecutive *successful* takeoffs and landings for some time and am still in trouble with both. I've even created missions with green gates galore trying to get axis controls setup with right DCS settings while trimming like mad just to get level controlled flight. Still at it.....

 

Good luck with your efforts and thanks loads to you and folks responding I have more fodder to chew on. I've spent tons of time viewing videos and applying tips from helpful folks and have made progress but someone said "practice,practice,practice,practice,..." and I'll get there. I do whenever I have time......

[artmustel]

Can feel your pain lol but we just need more practice and we'll get there. Sometimes I think I need a virtual flight instructor (why don't they implement that?) someone that tells us what to do in the exact moment we are doing it wrong.

 

I've managed to land decently the P-51 a very few times but I am not happy with that, every take off and landing must be a success, otherwise we have not accomplished too much.

 

And the Spitfire...:music_whistling:....I just can take it off but not in an elegant fashion. Taxiing and landing it are nightmares to me. But that is good, it keeps us interested, if it were too easy it would be boring!

[Captain Orso]

Can feel your pain lol but we just need more practice and we'll get there. Sometimes I think I need a virtual flight instructor (why don't they implement that?) someone that tells us what to do in the exact moment we are doing it wrong.

 

I've managed to land decently the P-51 a very few times but I am not happy with that, every take off and landing must be a success, otherwise we have not accomplished too much.

 

And the Spitfire...:music_whistling:....I just can take it off but not in an elegant fashion. Taxiing and landing it are nightmares to me. But that is good, it keeps us interested, if it were too easy it would be boring!

 

I put in that in the Wish List last year: Instructor's Tool. There was some good reception to the idea, but not terribly much.

 

I think it would be so easy for ED to implement. It's only a point-of-view and a pointer, and nearly every other game out there with a 1st-Person perspective has that as a spectator option.

 

Then adding an instructor controlled pointer, how hard would that be? Yet I don't see much chance of it ever coming about *sigh*

[artmustel]

Captain Orso, that is a great idea, I wish they implemented it to help new players like me.

 

I like this simulation a lot. I don't want to use game "helps" because I've read they are not very effective. I do not want something so simplistic like other flight simulators but this game lacks proper instructions. The training missions are a joke (just fail on one small thing and lesson is over without telling you what was wrong).

 

After receiving help from this forum I've managed to take off and land the TF-51/P-51D. It is really a great thing to have fellows here always ready to help, but the way they can help is limited. Alas, some things are terrible. The Spitfire is a beautiful aircraft but come on, taxiing it is a PITA, like someone else said here. Some say it is due to it being a Beta model, maybe is that the reason. Also, I can "take off" on it (ugly to see but at least I can fly it) but landing it? Not even once! Sometimes I don't feel like asking people here for more help because I feel they have done all they can to help me.

 

I doubt the real Spitfire is harder to taxi than this rendering of it...

 

I accept I am a newbe to flying airplanes but I am not a newbe in general pc and console gaming. I am not spring chicken but I have good reflexes (still). Then, why this DCS is making me to feel heavy frustrated? I need to blame it to a very poor didactic planning. I wonder how many like me have felt the way I feel now regarding DCS Worlds, until they have to abandon this simulation. I don't want to and I would like to see some things improved here. Sorry for this rant fellas.

[Captain Orso]

The thing is, DCS PFM (Professional Flight Model) aircraft are a simulation along the lines of simulations professional pilots use for training, like airline pilots etc., except that the equipment is what ever you put together yourself. In that sense it's not a game. You really have to learn to fly an aircraft, with all the nuances and details. Trial-n-Error™ is not always the best way to do that, and DCS tutorials can be a measure for your skills, but will never really teach you how to fly.

 

When I started with DCS, I thought I knew all about flying. I'd read lots of things. I'd played around with other 'flight sims' like MS Flight, but when it came down to it, what I didn't know would fill volumes, and still does.

 

Tutorial videos are good, up to a point. The problem with them, they really demonstrate how a proficient pilot does a proficient landing, for example. But if you're not proficient, it really doesn't help you, because right from the outset you are doing things differently.

 

Also, most of them run along the lines of 'this is how I do it'. That's fine if you already know how to take off and land. If you're trying to learn, some can actually be bad examples, because you should be learning to do something else first, simply a basic take off and landing. Nothing fancy.

 

This is exactly why I suggested the Instructor Tool. So that somebody who knows how to fly and can actually instruct a pilot trainee, can actually see what the trainee is doing real-time, and instruct him real-time through Teamspeak or what ever comms are agreed upon. Of course, this depends on you finding somebody willing to be your instructor who is actually good at it.

[Habu_69]

I had similar issues I posted about while trying to make a successful crosswind landing in the P-51D. Other pilots provided videos, which did provide a few nuggets of wisdom; but I achieved a modicum of success only after many hours of adjusting controls and attempted landings until I found a workable and repeatable technique. Let the force be with you.

[sawbuck]

Been all over the forums and videos between "practice, practice, practice" and have made puny progress in getting to a sometimes reasonable touchdown. Most of the time it ends shortly thereafter skidding sideways even after pulling back the stick to lock wheels. But mostly, getting over the runway straight at glide speed without bouncing the landing gear awry is the biggest issue. Just more time needed (without the "War Department" feeling neglected) I expect.

 

I've never actually flown except to take controls of friends' crafts during flight a few times which I enjoyed immensely. I get the feeling I'm battling my declining hand/eye coordination and general dexterity (76 yr. old retiree) on top of h/w touchiness and simulation complexity. I've been reading up on the TM Warthog HOTAS from users as well as publications and I think I am using not-the-best h/w with X52 Pro. However, until I can justify blowing $400 to replace it I spend a lot of time applying tips to improve its control.

 

What amazes me is videos like Sogomonian's (DCS: World - P-51D - Taxi, Takeoff, Landing Tutorial -

). My craft is never that stable. At least, not after making a throttle or rudder/aileron/elevator-trim while descending on final approach. I try to avoid rudder pedal use during that time which causes bobbing all over the place. No matter how tiny the trim or stick adjustment I make I rarely am as spot on as his video.

 

Sooooo.... back into the skies when I get the chance and keep tuned to these informative forums... :)

[Slayer_42]

Talking to a pilot who is currently learning to fly a tail-dragger, i was told that the ailerons are used to center the aircraft with the closer end of the runway while the rudders are used to align the aircraft with the far end. All of this is done simultaneously and feels strange to begin with but after a short time practicing, becomes natural. I perform all of my P-51 landings in this manner now and successfully perform 90% smoothly.

 

cheers

[BuzzU]

Trying to get the plane trimmed on approach has never worked for me in a plane like the P-51. I just fly it down myself all the way to and after touchdown.

[zero]

Go high. (4000`or more). Not on an approach.

Practice:

Drop speed to approx 150. Select flaps in steps down to full flap. Gear down.

Keep speed max 150.

Trim and adjust throttle for descent -200 - 500 ft/min.

Now you are on the reverse side of envelope.

Adjust speed with pitch up/down 120-140

Adjust rate of descent with throttle - less than -500 ft/min.

Off course this will interact with each other, but try to remember the sequence.

Trim pitch to stabilize. Should be almost able to fly hands off.

Take your time. Adjust:

Better late than early

Better less than much.

 

This is the setup for approach.

 

Align.

Turn on your gyroscope sight. This will help you calculate direction.

I usually drift slightly left. I aim for right side of runway. (I keep rudder trim at 0)

 

Touchdown.

Keep speed at 120 or slightly less.

Descend rate at -200. The ground effect will help you close to ground.

Do not try 3 point landing. You have plenty of runway. No need to touchdown at threshold.

Fly it in with tail low.

Do not stall it at flare as correct procedure suggests. It is hard to calculate height in a sim.

You will bounce up and stall= crash.

Flight it in to kiss the runway. It take a lot of runway, but you got plenty of it.

Tail low. Speed slightly under 120

Descend rate at touchdown max -200 ft/min

Now you have a kisser.

Do not pull back hard on stick at touchdown to get the tail wheel down.

The bounce from landing gear will send you up for a second landing.

(Watch model tail draggers land 5 times and nose over with this error).

Pull back slow and steady.

 

Landing correction mantra:

 

Better late than early.

Better less than much.

[Yo-Yo]

As you are on the ground, remember the horisont attitude on the cockpiot frame.

 

The better approach is 1000 ft/s - 25"- 2700 rpm (no matter what they are actually) - full flaps - gear down. The desired flaring point (the best is about 50 m before the threshold) must be glued to the same point on the canopy- no matter what the point but it must not move.

 

As you are in few meters from the ground begin to flare avoiding ballooning and retard the throttle - in 1-1.5 seconds - then go to the ground attitude you remember. Wait. After touchdown use small anticipating rudder movement to keep straight. Use differential wheelbrakes in the second part of the rolling.