Keep coming back to the tiger

[Gunny Highway]

I recently purchased the black shark 2 and mig21bis modules because they are half off, but I keep coming back to the F5. It's really the most fun to fly and fight with. The complexity of the mig21 compared to its relatively rudimentary systems stands out. The American engineering in the F5 is just so much more logical and streamlined compared to the 200 switches in the mig21 to do simple tasks.

[Rudel_chw]

I enjoy the F-5 too ... but the Blackshark is a blast once you learn to use its trim, you can race at low level, land on rooftops, on ship decks ... Its really my favorite chopper in DCS :D ... give it a try, since it isnt an easy craft to learn.

[Sabre-TLA]

I love the F-5 too and the Shark and most of the ED modules.

 

Every module is unique and has it's own learning curve and unique flight characteristics and challenges.

[Fionn]

f5 and m2000c are great!!!

[Gunny Highway]

One of the main reasons why I like the F5 is because of the ease of use. Its obvious this plane was designed as an export fighter, and its genius is in its ability to be rapidly employed and operated to its full potential with relatively low training time required.

 

The black shark has been fun as well, just going to require a few more weeks of practice before i can effectively employ it.

 

The MiG21 has been frustrating to say the least. This isn't Leathernecks fault, rather it is the MiG's inferior engineering. The engine wont stay on at 0 g? You have to hit 20 switches to fire the AA ordnance? Becoming more obvious why and which country maintained air superiority throughout the Cold War...

[Kev2go]

I recently purchased the black shark 2 and mig21bis modules because they are half off, but I keep coming back to the F5. It's really the most fun to fly and fight with. The complexity of the mig21 compared to its relatively rudimentary systems stands out. The American engineering in the F5 is just so much more logical and streamlined compared to the 200 switches in the mig21 to do simple tasks.

 

One of the main reasons why I like the F5 is because of the ease of use. Its obvious this plane was designed as an export fighter, and its genius is in its ability to be rapidly employed and operated to its full potential with relatively low training time required.

 

The black shark has been fun as well, just going to require a few more weeks of practice before i can effectively employ it.

 

The MiG21 has been frustrating to say the least. This isn't Leathernecks fault, rather it is the MiG's inferior engineering. The engine wont stay on at 0 g? You have to hit 20 switches to fire the AA ordnance? Becoming more obvious why and which country maintained air superiority throughout the Cold War...

 

 

 

precisely that....

 

though some eastern fanbois try to spin it like its a good thing.

 

 

In adition to having flown the Mig21bis ( i bought it way back when it was still a new release) & the F5E, while also having flown the F4E by Milviz in FSX, i can also note that even in a more expensive and prime fighter, the avionics are no doubt more complex than the F5, but yet still more user friendly than the either MIg21 or 23 variant. ( granted the F4 has a RIO in the backseat to manage radar, and some weapons related stuff for the pilot) However as said, thedesigners seem to have placed greater emphasis on cockpit layout/ ergonomics, as well as producing a more engineered aircraft, which allows more aspects to be automated, therefore requiring less switch work for the pilot.

 

Again not to trash the Mig21bi. its still an iconic aircraft, and i still go back to flying that iconic bird

 

 

On another note anyone here try the French Mirage 2000C? seriously that aircraft is 4th gen design, and it too surprinsgly requires very little switch work for startup and weapons employment. Also well laid out, and User Friendly IMO. and that was not aimed to be strickly an export plane, but as a a frontline fighter for thier airforce.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

I should also add that with eastern deisgny, we will again more complexity with upcoming Razbam's Mig19 for the rudimentaryy tasks it will do.

 

 

While no ones annouced an F100 Super sabre to the Mig19 counterpart would basically be be the F5E vs Mig21 ( in terms of switchology) all over again, Though this time I think when it comes strickly for A2A the latter will be the better option, though a HUn certainly would be the more versatile AC since its a more proper fighter/bomber ( in particular the D version)

[Fri13]

Actually the MiG is easier to operate and teach.

You can get it taxing under 45 seconds from a cold start. It was designed for simplicity and to be excellent interceptor for last second calculations.

 

It is very rugged aircraft, designed to operate on dirt strips in any weather or condition, land and take off even from roads.

 

The Mig module has own problems, like it is said that the missile selectors for type and pylon are only override switches and you can launch any missile regardless type selector. Ie, if you have a inner pylons selected and have a IR missile there, you launch then those even if you have your switch set to radar missiles. But in DCS you need to have a correct type and pylon selected.

 

And yes, fuel is bumped in even zero G, but only limited time as the auxillary tank needs filling from fuel pumps. Your time to fly negative G is dependent from a fuel consumption. This is one reason why Soviet aircrafts are fly by doing rolls when needed to go down.

 

MiG-21 is the most exported aircraft because it's simplicity and effectiveness and simply price.

[Kev2go]

Actually the MiG is easier to operate and teach.

You can get it taxing under 45 seconds from a cold start. It was designed for simplicity and to be excellent interceptor for last second calculations.

 

It is very rugged aircraft, designed to operate on dirt strips in any weather or condition, land and take off even from roads.

 

The Mig module has own problems, like it is said that the missile selectors for type and pylon are only override switches and you can launch any missile regardless type selector. Ie, if you have a inner pylons selected and have a IR missile there, you launch then those even if you have your switch set to radar missiles. But in DCS you need to have a correct type and pylon selected.

 

And yes, fuel is bumped in even zero G, but only limited time as the auxillary tank needs filling from fuel pumps. Your time to fly negative G is dependent from a fuel consumption. This is one reason why Soviet aircrafts are fly by doing rolls when needed to go down.

 

MiG-21 is the most exported aircraft because it's simplicity and effectiveness and simply price.

 

no just more 3rd world countries that were under eastern/ pact sphere of influence or states that US was not willing to sell to at the given time for political reasons. that and the Mig design came before the initial F5's.

 

 

The F5 is even simpler to operate, as pointed out by many here. and if you ask me a second engine is better for survivability. 1st engine goes down, you can still get home on the second. In the Mig you drop like a rock if your engine goes kaput from damage. MIg21 may be a great interceptor fighter, but as per American pdesign philoshpy the F5 is also more Versatile as a Fighter/Bomber. Not every MIG21 customer relied on Soviet doctrine or even used it like them as a GCI interceptor.

 

As an export aircraft Customers could choose what additional feautres they wanted into thier aircraft on top the base model. Hence why you see some F5s with External refueling probes, or additional navigational systems and/ or TV screen for AGM65 mavericks.

 

and that aside the Mig21 is less nugget friendly. Its a bit more tricky to land. Those short delta wings produce not as much lift. and thus require higher speeds for take off and landing, thus landing can be a bit tricky. thus the Mig21 still requires more training to master, so the pilots dont damage thier planes at landing. For an smaller economies more training also = more $$ spent. So no the F5 is still better in that regard for pilot freindliness and Safety.

 

anyways even Iran liked the F5 so much they have designed and produced the HESA Saeqeh based on it as a inexpensive tactical fighter successor.

 

EDIT:

 

 

OH and FYI the MIg21 is not the worlds best selling/ exported fighter anymore. The F16 currently is.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Kev2go

[Fri13]

no just more 3rd world countries that were under eastern/ pact sphere of influence or states that US was not willing to sell to at the given time for political reasons. that and the Mig design came before the initial F5's.

 

Calling it was sold only for 3rd countries or influenced ones, totally wrong. As Finland and India weren't such. (And really many other countries). Mig-21 simply won in trials many other western alternatives.

 

And it transformed from 2nd gen fighter to 3rd gen fighter between.

 

 

The F5 is even simpler to operate, as pointed out by many here. and if you ask me a second engine is better for survivability.

 

Second engine has nothing to do with operation.

 

1st engine goes down, you can still get home on the second. In the Mig you drop like a rock if your engine goes kaput from damage.

 

Nothing to do with cockpit designs. And F-5 is very fragile to FOD, while MIG aint.

 

MIg21 may be a great interceptor fighter, but as per American pdesign philoshpy the F5 is also more Versatile as a Fighter/Bomber. Not every MIG21 customer relied on Soviet doctrine or even used it like them as a GCI interceptor.

 

Mig-21 was designed from start for interceptor task, added before release capability to carry bombs for typical doctrine reasons. Yet completes as well the "Fighter/Bomber" task if really required.

 

But that has nothing to do with the cockpit design.

 

As an export aircraft Customers could choose what additional feautres they wanted into thier aircraft on top the base model. Hence why you see some F5s with External refueling probes, or additional navigational systems and/ or TV screen for AGM65 mavericks.

 

Yes.... And you see Mig-21 with R-73, R-77, R-27ER and R-27ET and data links capable to work with Su-27 and let them guide missiles in while Mig turns and burn after launch. As well HMS for high boresight aiming etc.

As well capability carry KAB-500 TV bombs for standoff situations as tactical nukes etc.

 

If russians would have then used targeting pods instead strike fighters, you could bet that Mig-21 would had one in its center pylon for lazing and guiding.

 

Both has major upgrade packages if customer wanted.

 

 

But none of that matters. As those are upgrades as well.

 

and that aside the Mig21 is less nugget friendly. Its a bit more tricky to land. Those short delta wings produce not as much lift. and thus require higher speeds for take off and landing, thus landing can be a bit tricky.

 

Actually the landing and takeoff is very easy. Even inexperienced pilot gets it nicely down in a first try based the testings and evaluations. And you can make very rough landings with it without problems for very rough terrains. But again, that doesn't matter much.

 

It's problematic that it requires longer airstrip than ie. Viggen, but there are many bases and roads where you could land Mig-21 easily.

 

But in DCS many does carrier landings and take-offs with it too.

 

thus the Mig21 still requires more training to master, so the pilots dont damage thier planes at landing. For an smaller economies more training also = more $$ spent. So no the F5 is still better in that regard for pilot freindliness and Safety.

 

Likely if looking, F-5 training costs more.

Remeber that Mig-21 was/is fly by many countries that were poor.

And latest variants had same systems as western ones....

 

 

anyways even Iran liked the F5 so much they have designed and produced the HESA Saeqeh based on it as a inexpensive tactical fighter successor.

 

Yes, and China had own variants etc.

 

Remeber we are talking now about obsolete Mig-21 version.

 

OH and FYI the MIg21 is not the worlds best selling/ exported fighter anymore. The F16 currently is.

 

Mig-21 about 60 countries vs F-16 over 25 countries

Mig-21 produced over 11 000 vs F-16 over 4500

 

Where F-16 wins is that it is with F-15 longest produced jet fighter, as Mig-21 productions stopped few years back.

 

So you are right as Mig-21 ain't produced anymore and sold...

[some1]

The MiG21 has been frustrating to say the least. This isn't Leathernecks fault, rather it is the MiG's inferior engineering. The engine wont stay on at 0 g? You have to hit 20 switches to fire the AA ordnance? Becoming more obvious why and which country maintained air superiority throughout the Cold War...

 

Actually, the requirement to hit 20 switches to fire AA ordnance is LNS fault.

[Gunny Highway]

I just don't understand how the MiG21 is somehow easier to operate? I am terrible at the game, but I have never had an issue flaming out an engine or releasing ordinance in the F5. Fire up free flight mission on the MiG21 and it will stall the engine in about 5 seconds without touching the controls. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like it's almost unflyable without simple engine management turned on.

[Kev2go]

Calling it was sold only for 3rd countries or influenced ones, totally wrong. As Finland and India weren't such. (And really many other countries). Mig-21 simply won in trials many other western alternatives.

 

 

And neither Canada, Switzerland, or the Netherlands are impoverished states. They also used F5's. And whilst Finland is not a 3rd world state, Its GDP is lower than Switzerland and Canada. They are wealthier and yet they still chose the F5's as thier fighters, even though if they had wanted to they could have chosen & afforded a more sophisticated air frame like the F-4 phantom. Those AC merely met those nations need good enough. F5E was switzerlands frontline fighter until adoption of the F/A18 ( and still serves as a reserve aircraft), and the for Canada the earlier F-5A ( designated CF-5) filled the need for a Fighter/Bomber, and as a Nuclear Delivery platform if the cold war went hot, since the F-104 airframe was not ideal for ground attack.

 

 

And it transformed from 2nd gen fighter to 3rd gen fighter between.

 

 

So did the F5.. the F5E Tiger 2's direct predecessor is the F5A "freedom fighter"., its part of the same family of aircraft. F5E Its not a different design, its merely improved upon, just like the 3rd generation Mig21. The Freedom fighters can be considered 2ng generation, since it was a strickly a Day fighter. No search radar, RWR or anything like that.

 

So the F5 whilst coming on the market later the Mig21, still went through a sort of 2nd- 3rd generation fighter phase as well.

 

 

 

 

Mig-21 was designed from start for interceptor task, added before release capability to carry bombs for typical doctrine reasons. Yet completes as well the "Fighter/Bomber" task if really required.

 

 

And the F5 was designed to be a versatile export aircraft. Henceforth it is can meet various export needs much better than the Mig21, especially since legacy versions, could have features added for extra $$ to meet certain needs, whislt the MIgs were basically sold "as is" from the Soviets for the most part.

 

again Mig21's true potential is only met with a proper defense network and necessary GCI support. Not every nation had the same doctrine or defense need as the Russia and Warsaw pact.

 

Also o note western( particularly US) philosophy simply placed more emphasis on versatility and multirole aspect. All if not most A/C were expected to be able to lug bombs. the F4 phantom was also designed as a Interceptor for the navy agaisnt Strategic bombers, and yet it became a 3 service fighter plus a versatile aircraft being able to fulfill strike role extremely well.

 

 

 

Yes.... And you see Mig-21 with R-73, R-77, R-27ER and R-27ET and data links capable to work with Su-27 and let them guide missiles in while Mig turns and burn after launch. As well HMS for high boresight aiming etc.

As well capability carry KAB-500 TV bombs for standoff situations as tactical nukes etc.

 

If russians would have then used targeting pods instead strike fighters, you could bet that Mig-21 would had one in its center pylon for lazing and guiding.

 

Both has major upgrade packages if customer wanted.

 

 

But none of that matters. As those are upgrades as well.

 

 

you seem to be confusing Upgrades or addon packages, with a Modernization. THose features you described would only be found in the Mig21 Lancer or the Indian Bison.

 

Again these featrues only became via a radical modernization, After the Mig21 already ceased production.

 

The upgrades i described in my prior post again Were avaialble in the legacy era, WHen the F5' was actually still being sold on the market. Again it was simply the idea behind the export fighter to have a BAse Model ( for both F5A and the newer F5E tiger 2) and offer additional features to cater to specfic customer needs, or those with extra $$.

 

Again the F5 was actually capable of nuclear delivery role for nato allies. Canada;s F5A included a refueling probe and added avionics for "special stores" aka tactical nuclear weapons. Yes today Canada does not process nuclear weapons, but up intil 1984 they did. Anyways these CF-5's stayed into service until about the Mid 90s, even after getting F/A18's in the 80s.

 

Again also to note when to comes to modernization there are F5's out there today that are very much comparable to the Mig21 lancer/ bisons, if not better. FOR EG the brazilian F5EM. Also a radical modernization that took place. IT can employ Precision guided munitions, and employ Amrams for BVR combat., has MFCD's etc, all aspect Aim9 seekers. SEAD missiles ETC.

 

So no the upgrades are relevant, because the ones i was initially talking about were available at the F5's Release. Mig21' basically came " as is". They were much less flexible to meeting export needs than the F5 airframe was at the time. It is relevant because many countries used them with addon features.while the Mig21 was still a relevant aircraft.

 

 

Actually the landing and takeoff is very easy. Even inexperienced pilot gets it nicely down in a first try based the testings and evaluations. And you can make very rough landings with it without problems for very rough terrains. But again, that doesn't matter much.

 

It's problematic that it requires longer airstrip than ie. Viggen, but there are many bases and roads where you could land Mig-21 easily.

 

 

 

 

Likely if looking, F-5 training costs more.

Remeber that Mig-21 was/is fly by many countries that were poor.

And latest variants had same systems as western ones....

 

 

I dont think so, F5E is simpler to operate, and has more positive handling characteristics, it is therefore easier to fly and therefore requires less training for basic concepts., No takeoff is not that easy on the mig21. PIlots ackoledge this its just that its something they get accostomed to over a period of time. If you put a F5 pilot beind the Mig21 cockpit they would probably criticize this more, or vice versa, For mig pilots that flew the F5, would appreciate its better handling and easier landing approach.

 

The latest Variants? yes because the latest vartaints Used western Avoinics ( better than Russian ones). Then again Only Rumania with thier Lancer, and INdia with the Bison operated Modern Mig21 varaints. I don not consider these "latest" because they are in specialized modification for those specifc countries. There is no Standard production lancer or Bison. The Mig21 nor F5 are no longer sold on the market. They can only be aquired second hand or military "surplus" storage.

 

The Russians evaluated the F5 which they got from North vietnamese when they took over the south. The Russian test pilots considered the F5 to be the sweeter ride, and a better ACM fighter than the Mig21bis. only complaint was that it was less suited to be used from lower quality airfields. Only on the political level, did the higher ups not want to admit the the F5's positive characteristics over the Mig21.

 

In addition to thaat while both are short legged aircraft, the F5 still has better range and/or loiter capability than the Mig21 due to fuel econonmy. Especially for customers that had F5's with refueling probes, this would allow for greater distances for Rebasing flights , and longer loiter times.

 

 

 

Yes, and China had own variants etc.

 

Remeber we are talking now about obsolete Mig-21 version.

 

 

yes and the very upgrades i mentioned in past post like Maverick capability, Refueling probes, or some additional navigation, avionics were very much available as additional features, for now "obsolete" F5 versions when they began being sold on the market.

 

 

 

Mig-21 about 60 countries vs F-16 over 25 countries

Mig-21 produced over 11 000 vs F-16 over 4500

 

Where F-16 wins is that it is with F-15 longest produced jet fighter, as Mig-21 productions stopped few years back.

 

So you are right as Mig-21 ain't produced anymore and sold...

 

 

again you are using outdated statistics. the Mig21 is no longer in service with 60 countries, or around in such large #s. So yes as of now the F16 is around in larger #s in export use than the Mig21.

 

AS of now only 14 countries operate the Mig21, and only 2 countries ( Rumania and India) have Mig21's avionics upgraded to modern standards, adn the most capable of Modern Migs. the J7 is still quite a simpler aircraft. the rest are pretty much obsolete aircraft that would become "cannon fodder" to modern 4th gen and above aircraft.

 

Sure if you mean the Chinese clone, the J7? however Russian made Mig21 productions didnt stop just a few years back. the Mig21Bis was the last major version ceased production in 1986. Lancer or Bison modernization does not count as a new production.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Kev2go

[arkasha_s_mishkoi]

Atleast mig have afterburner and air brake indicators...

[Kev2go]

Atleast mig have afterburner and air brake indicators...

 

i dont see how lack of indicators is a problem. its more of nice to have, than necessary feature.

 

Even if i was playing without sound i can very much still tell if AB are on because of throttle position and of the engine instrument indicators on the right side ( by and below RWR) you will have indicators for engine nozzles, Temp, and engine RPM.

 

brakes, i can still look down at the break switch ( throttle area) to check if its on or off.

 

but considering eyesight and hearing problems arent an issue for me( nor do i play with sound off) i can tell based the sounds as well.

 

those are your visual Queue's. It really doesnt take more than a glance, assuming external sounds aren't enough to let you know. ( which they should be)

Edited February 27, 2017 by Kev2go

[Dino Might]

F-5 is still my favorite DCS module. It's my go-to when I'm bored and don't really have any plans in mind. I enjoy every aspect of flying it. Take-off and landing are particularly smooth, and I have a better feel for it than with any other jet. I like the taxi handling characteristics - it's great fun to have a go-cart race around an airbase with a few of them. I really like the cockpit layout, too.

 

The only thing I wish for is a confirmation that the gun dispersion is modeled correctly. I have a heck of a time putting enough rounds on target, and it looks like the cannons are spewing shells out in the 20 mil deviation range. I may be incorrect, here, but that MiG-21 cannon is far superior and really nice to shoot by comparison.

[Kev2go]

F-5 is still my favorite DCS module. It's my go-to when I'm bored and don't really have any plans in mind. I enjoy every aspect of flying it. Take-off and landing are particularly smooth, and I have a better feel for it than with any other jet. I like the taxi handling characteristics - it's great fun to have a go-cart race around an airbase with a few of them. I really like the cockpit layout, too.

 

The only thing I wish for is a confirmation that the gun dispersion is modeled correctly. I have a heck of a time putting enough rounds on target, and it looks like the cannons are spewing shells out in the 20 mil deviation range. I may be incorrect, here, but that MiG-21 cannon is far superior and really nice to shoot by comparison.

 

cannon may be more accurate, but getting a lock for guns ranging is easier in the F5 and offers a better gunnery solution, so even with a exaggerated bullet dispersion i consider it sort of a trade off, more than a clear advantage for the mig.

[Sarge55]

i dont see how lack of indicators is a problem. its more of nice to have, than necessary feature.

 

Even if i was playing without sound i can very much still tell if AB are on because of throttle position and of the engine instrument indicators on the right side ( by and below RWR) you will have indicators for engine nozzles, Temp, and engine RPM.

 

brakes, i can still look down at the break switch ( throttle area) to check if its on or off.

 

but considering eyesight and hearing problems arent an issue for me( nor do i play with sound off) i can tell based the sounds as well.

 

those are your visual Queue's. It really doesnt take more than a glance, assuming external sounds aren't enough to let you know. ( which they should be)

 

Kev,

 

I think arkasha_s_mishkoi was trying to create some levity not make a serious point. At least I think so... humour is hard in forums.

[Kev2go]

Kev,

 

I think arkasha_s_mishkoi was trying to create some levity not make a serious point. At least I think so... humour is hard in forums.

 

Rightt, well its kinda hard to tell, There are times when people are legitimately serious with posts like that.

[BlackLion213]

Fire up free flight mission on the MiG21 and it will stall the engine in about 5 seconds without touching the controls.

 

Sounds like you have a pitch trim problem here. The MiG-21's engine is susceptible to flame-out from 2 common causes: prolonged negative Gs (5-10 seconds depending on throttle settings) or very low airspeed - less than 200 kph and generally with the nose pointed vertically.

 

My guess is that the aircraft is not trimmed at the start of these missions and is persistently pitching down leading to zero or slight negative Gs for too long. The other possibility is that your trimmed nose-up and consistently pushing the stick forward to level the aircraft and generating negative Gs. If you promptly trim the MiG for level flight, the problem will probably resolve.

 

Also, the prolonged negative Gs leading to flame-out is very common and effects the majority of tactical aircraft including the Mirage.

 

The MiG definitely has more "secret handshakes" than the F-5 and asks more of its operator, but with a bit of practice you'll get the hang of things.

 

-Nick

Edited February 28, 2017 by BlackLion213

[Dino Might]

I finally got back to blue side in Blue Flag yesterday. Took the F-5 out today and went 4 for 1 against SU27s in them-thar hills around Sochi. Got very lucky a few times, but I'll take anything I can get.

 

The F-5 rocks!

 

I also ended up hitting friendly ground targets twice because I didn't know we had captured particular cities while I was enroute. I blew the hell out of a bunker in Bzyb city with a great Snakeeye run. :)

[kylekatarn720]

i dont understand why people keep saying mig 21 is hard to land(unless you fall below glideslope too much and u cant see the airfield), this module is my first with asm. Took off on my first try with out a problem, landed on my first try without a problem. Never damaged the aircraft or broken gears, or flatten tires while landing it. on the other hand it took me 2-3 days of practice to learn landing a10c properly and i bought f5 yesterday, crashed it in to the airfield fences at the end of the runway 5 times trying to take off with full payload, stalled 3 times right after my tires left the runway.

Edited March 19, 2017 by kylekatarn720

[mattebubben]

i dont understand why people keep saying mig 21 is hard to land(unless you fall below glideslope too much and u cant see the airfield), this module is my first with asm. Took off on my first try with out a problem, landed on my first try without a problem. Never damaged the aircraft or broken gears, or flatten tires while landing it. on the other hand it took me 2-3 days of practice to learn landing a10c properly and i bought f5 yesterday, crashed it in to the airfield fences at the end of the runway 5 times trying to take off with full payload, stalled 3 times right after my tires left the runway.

 

For the F-5E Takeoff had you remembered to set the Flaps to auto?

 

Since if you had not and tried to take off with the Flaps retracted i can understand why you would have those problems =P.

[crudboy12]

no just more 3rd world countries that were under eastern/ pact sphere of influence or states that US was not willing to sell to at the given time for political reasons. that and the Mig design came before the initial F5's.

 

 

The F5 is even simpler to operate, as pointed out by many here. and if you ask me a second engine is better for survivability. 1st engine goes down, you can still get home on the second. In the Mig you drop like a rock if your engine goes kaput from damage. MIg21 may be a great interceptor fighter, but as per American pdesign philoshpy the F5 is also more Versatile as a Fighter/Bomber. Not every MIG21 customer relied on Soviet doctrine or even used it like them as a GCI interceptor.

 

As an export aircraft Customers could choose what additional feautres they wanted into thier aircraft on top the base model. Hence why you see some F5s with External refueling probes, or additional navigational systems and/ or TV screen for AGM65 mavericks.

 

and that aside the Mig21 is less nugget friendly. Its a bit more tricky to land. Those short delta wings produce not as much lift. and thus require higher speeds for take off and landing, thus landing can be a bit tricky. thus the Mig21 still requires more training to master, so the pilots dont damage thier planes at landing. For an smaller economies more training also = more $$ spent. So no the F5 is still better in that regard for pilot freindliness and Safety.

 

anyways even Iran liked the F5 so much they have designed and produced the HESA Saeqeh based on it as a inexpensive tactical fighter successor.

 

EDIT:

 

 

OH and FYI the MIg21 is not the worlds best selling/ exported fighter anymore. The F16 currently is.

I love both, but the MiG is more capable. Between the rockets, bombs, air to ground missiles, and BVR capability, the MiG shines above the F-5 as a multi-role aircraft. The F-5 has nicer radar, and it is better in a close in dogfight. The F-5 also has the ease of use factor, but this stems largely from simplicity. I love they way the it flies, and it is clear why it has been used as an aggressor so much, but it is also clear why the US mostly used them as trainers or export aircraft, and used the F-4 and others as their mainline aircraft. In DCS, both are modeled fantastically by their respective developers, and I love both.

[kylekatarn720]

For the F-5E Takeoff had you remembered to set the Flaps to auto?

 

Since if you had not and tried to take off with the Flaps retracted i can understand why you would have those problems =P.

 

nice i can take some advices on that ^^ letme tell you what i did so you can point me in the right direction, dont know the proper names for the most of the switches yet but ill try my best. there is a little lever right next to the throttle that one is on thumb sw. the flap controller on throttle is on auto. speed brakes are closed. pitch trim is between 6 and 9( i keep changing the value everytime i try taking off so i can find the proper one for the payload i have on me which is 3 fuel tanks i think they are 275 gallons 2 rocket pods and 2 aim9s ). oh and the little switch right next to the throttle is on forward positon which makes the forward landing gear stand up straight:d. throttle is not limited so i can use afterburner. and i think that is all i do inside cockpit about getting ready to take off. after that i hold gear brakes, speed up the engine, release the brakes try to lift of somewhere between 150-160 knots. i can take off like this now but my problem is that i cant take off smoothly, i keep getting excisive AoA values so speeding up or getting some altitude is a pain in the ass for the first 15-20 seconds after take off.