Viggen role in MP

[Rammit]

Dear all,

 

As a Viggen pilot it can sometimes be frustrating that the aircraft cannot be employed as it was intended. The AJS37 is not a CAS aircraft, it is not designed to loiter or to search for targets, rather, it is designed as a deep interdictor and penetrator. Waypoints need to be set up for the Viggen to operate successfully in this role. I am aware that the pilot can take coordinates and create the waypoint themselves but this is rather null when the location of targets is not known in the first place. It seems that a lot of MP servers have ground targets which cater for the Su-25 and the A-10 very well, but can we see an evolution which can include deep strike too? I feel it would bring another layer into the MP environment if there was an active 'front' in which the CAS aircraft operated, while a high threat environment existed behind that front in which the Viggen could operate as it was intended, striking high value targets in a strategic sense, in a low and fast, one pass haul ass mentality.

 

Thank you very much for your consideration, please do not take this as criticism MP creators, your work is far better than anything I could do in the editor! :thumbup:

 

Rammit

[Fri13]

Dear all,

 

As a Viggen pilot it can sometimes be frustrating that the aircraft cannot be employed as it was intended. The AJS37 is not a CAS aircraft, it is not designed to loiter or to search for targets, rather, it is designed as a deep interdictor and penetrator.

 

Well, "search" can be said to be in two kinds in case of Viggen.

Either do a electronical recon flights, as we have now a capability to triangulate radars and build a educated guesses where are is something known kinds. So in this case Viggen is going to fly around, as well pre-defined routes.

 

And then for "searching" comes again the maritime search where Viggen is just sent on pre-estimated destination to seek and destroy possible threats.

 

 

Waypoints need to be set up for the Viggen to operate successfully in this role. I am aware that the pilot can take coordinates and create the waypoint themselves but this is rather null when the location of targets is not known in the first place. It seems that a lot of MP servers have ground targets which cater for the Su-25 and the A-10 very well, but can we see an evolution which can include deep strike too?

 

That is actually a more how Viggen can be used. Although it is operating with other military intelligence so targets are mainly already known or estimated.

So Viggen pilot could now go and fly a recon to locate SAM sites and Early Warning Radars, map them on kneeboard, Return To Base and rearm by planning the deep strike and then go to complete such mission by attacking those targets.

 

I feel it would bring another layer into the MP environment if there was an active 'front' in which the CAS aircraft operated, while a high threat environment existed behind that front in which the Viggen could operate as it was intended, striking high value targets in a strategic sense, in a low and fast, one pass haul ass mentality.

 

That just ain't possible until we get more realistic radars, counter measures, terrain concealment and blocking etc.

As it would lead to situation where fighters are forced to fly at higher altitude, CAS aircrafts would be required to operate very carefully as they work exactly in SAM NEZ and would get easily shot down if not supported by ground forces.

And ground forces would be easily concealed and protected so that CAS ain't so easy at all.

And as ground forces would be required to use roads, bridges, focus combat to urban areas etc, it would make ground units advance very slow and difficult, and CAS would be there to support them.

 

Helicopters would have far more serious role as those would be capable to fly NOE, get close and mean if needed, yet being very easily surprised by ground forces concealed in forests and urban areas.

 

So once the features come to play in DCS, then mission builders needs to include the more serious and realistic behavior and as well the pilots.

And that is then when a Viggen has even more purpose to be as you can actually plan and execute the missions for it against ground forces as against sea targets.

[lemoen]

I've been raising this point too. The high value target strike missions aren't being implemented and the one ore two cases I've seen on MP servers it was basically an afterthought, tank plinking being the norm.

 

The Viggen was meant for this kind of thing (and killing ships) but there are other planes that can do this too e.g. Mig29, Su27, Mirage, even L39, Hawk and C101 with more on the way e.g. F14, Mirage F1, A7, Harrier.

 

I would very much like to see this.

 

Also, runway damage and repairs need to be fixed so that we can use that strategically in MP.

[Rammit]

Well, "search" can be said to be in two kinds in case of Viggen.

Either do a electronical recon flights, as we have now a capability to triangulate radars and build a educated guesses where are is something known kinds. So in this case Viggen is going to fly around, as well pre-defined routes.

 

What I meant was more the very common mission in the MP environment which is 'enemy tanks/infantry/vehicles in a town, go kill' which works just fine if you have a low and slow and/or targeting pod capability, but does not suit the Viggen particularly well

[doodenkoff]

I'm confident that a couple of Viggens with overhead support and protection could penetrate deep enough on Open Conflict to drop a couple racks of bombs on an FOB.

[RichardG]

No mission planner, and no real strike targets to speak of.

[QuiGon]

I did some nice strikes on enemy airfields and AD-sites in enemy controlled teritory on the BlueFlag server which simulates such a moving front line (although without units on the front, because the DCS engine can't handle that many units): http://gadget.buddyspike.net/

[lemoen]

I did some nice strikes on enemy airfields and AD-sites in enemy controlled teritory on the BlueFlag server which simulates such a moving front line (although without units on the front, because the DCS engine can't handle that many units): http://gadget.buddyspike.net/

 

 

Unfortunately the runway bombing is only semi-useful. Some modules don't register the damage if they log in after the damage is done, also, they may or may not see the runway damaged. Others can take off over the craters and I don't think one can repair it. So its a bit hit and miss (harhar).

 

Blue Flag in particular is unsuited for the Viggen but most MP missions are like this.

 

What would be really cool is that bombing the hangars, say, will reduce the number of slots available for a type or take away radar missiles or fuel, until it is repaired. Give the protectors an actual high-value target to protect. Same for FARPs. At the moment you can go and try and drop a bomb on the SA-3 site, but that still leaves the million SA-8s, even if you make it there with the clairvoyant AI SAMs and MANPADs. Also, because cluster bombs are not enabled in BF, the Viggen's primary land weapon is not available. This effectively leaves you with the choice of lobbing Mavs/ARMs from an A10s and SU25s from afar and this is fun! but we could have even more options and strategies available to us.

[DarkFire]

No mission planner, and no real strike targets to speak of.

 

Agreed. One functionality of the F10 map that's badly needed in MP is the ability to plan a route for yourself that's visible to the friendly team. This would be ideal for Viggen deep strike missions because it would display the intended route of the strike flight for escort fighters / SEAD / fighter sweep flights so an entire "side" could do properly coordinated missions. Navigation and time-on-target would all suddenly become important, adding value to and for experienced air to mud pilots. IMO this would be much more realistic and more fun than simple air quake.

 

Deep strike targets and high value objectives to protect / kill needs to be a thing in MP missions.

[sea2sky]

it is designed as a deep interdictor and penetrator.

 

Not sure about that. I think the entire purpose of this AC was/is to sink down advancing Russian naval units. Penetrating deeper to the continent would mean dealing with SAM and interceptors, and Viggen has nothing to address that kind of threat with.

[QuiGon]

Unfortunately the runway bombing is only semi-useful. Some modules don't register the damage if they log in after the damage is done, also, they may or may not see the runway damaged. Others can take off over the craters and I don't think one can repair it. So its a bit hit and miss (harhar).

 

Blue Flag in particular is unsuited for the Viggen but most MP missions are like this.

 

What would be really cool is that bombing the hangars, say, will reduce the number of slots available for a type or take away radar missiles or fuel, until it is repaired. Give the protectors an actual high-value target to protect. Same for FARPs. At the moment you can go and try and drop a bomb on the SA-3 site, but that still leaves the million SA-8s, even if you make it there with the clairvoyant AI SAMs and MANPADs. Also, because cluster bombs are not enabled in BF, the Viggen's primary land weapon is not available. This effectively leaves you with the choice of lobbing Mavs/ARMs from an A10s and SU25s from afar and this is fun! but we could have even more options and strategies available to us.

 

I did not bomb the airfield itself, but thins like the SA-3 site you mentioned. Aren't there ammo warehouses that can be destroyed as well? As for the choice of weapon, the high drag bombs work fine for me :)

 

So I'm pretty happy with flying the Viggen in BF. Sure, it's far from beeing a perfect environment for the Viggen, but it's not that bad either.

[GoonerTC]

I enjoy flying the Viggen in BF also. The only thing that I do is plan and talk to other pilots online.. (text not SRS unfortunately) to find out where there's any action. Then its just a matter of plotting a route via the F10 map and then fly it.

 

I'd like to see more 'Intel' on the map to help plan more effectively but happy none the less.