Final Approach Lochini

[artmustel]

Still struggling with landings!

 

Trying the P-51 mission "Final Approach Lochini" I've noticed that its very hard for me to lower speed before runway threshold. Even I need to lower landing gears and flaps over 200 knt to be able to reach threshold around 200.

 

I've been able to land a few times but always with bouncing. (If I wait until speed is about 90 to flare, I am almost at the end of runway).

 

Since I know I am missing something or doing something wrong I wanted to know if you guys could tell me how to get a lower speed on the final approach. I try to keep thrust around 25, if I do less than that I stall before reaching the runway. And what really puzzles me is that I need to lower gears and flaps at over 200 knots, when I've read that one must do that at 170 or 165. Thanks in advance!

[razo+r]

flaps and gear down at about 160 or iirc it's even labbeled in the pit

 

flare at about 110-100

 

three point touchdown (gently) at 90 or so

 

https://www.google.ch/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ASVA_enCH652CH652&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dcs+p+51+landing+tutorial ;) watch one

[artmustel]

Thank you razo+3 but my question s rather how do I get to that low speed before reaching runway? It is supposed to be a final approach and mission starts at speed 200+...I don't know how to lower it in such a short run; if on this mission I wait until I get 160 to lower ggear and flaps I overrun the runway. Decreasing throttle is not working for me either.

[razo+r]

Thank you razo+3 but my question s rather how do I get to that low speed before reaching runway? It is supposed to be a final approach and mission starts at speed 200+...I don't know how to lower it in such a short run; if on this mission I wait until I get 160 to lower ggear and flaps I overrun the runway. Decreasing throttle is not working for me either.

 

Throttle 0

RPM 0

Slow dive

If you are still too fast, make a circle to lose speed...

 

You can also drop flaps earlier to let them act like speedbrakes

[Art-J]

^ Throttle 0, RPM full I would say, to utilize propeller braking effect.

[Echo38]

Heavy slip, perhaps?

[Captain Orso]

You have 5 levels of flaps. You can use the first level, about 5°, already at about 300Kn. So if you are flying at the average air-start-speed of about 275Kn, you can already use 10° flaps (2nd level).

 

Don't reduce RPM. The slower you fly with high RPM, the shallower the prop-pitch, and the more wind resistance on your prop you will experience. Also, while landing you'll want a minimum of 2700 RPM, although I generally use 3000, in case you need to go around. It will allow you to increase power to the maximum, without having to push RPM's up before increasing the throttle.

 

I don't do the shallow glide slope the tutorials use. I like to have a steeper glide slope and let the aircraft mostly glide in through gravity, with the nose pointing toward where I want to flair. This gives the best visibility and control, in my experience. YMMV.

 

Use flaps and low throttle, and speed will bleed off fairly quickly. The slower you go, the more flaps you can use. When you are down to about 180Kn, you can have full flaps down. At 160Kn you can lower the landing gear, which will also kill speed. By then you will probably have to increase throttle to maintain airspeed and keep from stalling and allow you to keep your nose pointed downward, so that you're not pancaking toward the runway. You want to fly toward the run way, nose pointing toward about where you want to flair. Then when you get to about between 100' and 50' start your flair, level off just above the runway, speed will further bleed off. Just before touchdown, reduce throttle to 0 and the plane settle down to the runway by itself.

 

As soon as you've touched down, start applying breaks evenly to further kill speed. The slower you are on the ground, the more control you will have. Careful that you don't brake too hard. If your tail stars to lift, let off the brakes and start braking again more carefully. When below 60Kn pull the stick all the way back, so that you have positive pressure on the tail wheel to allow the best traction and tail wheel steering.

 

That's it. Happy landings :P

[Zimmerdylan]

^ Throttle 0, RPM full I would say, to utilize propeller braking effect.

 

Agreed 100%. The high performance pilots I have talked to about it also agree, and it works well for me. What I do is regulate the speed of the plane from the beginning if my inbound approach so that I am at around 150 mph at final approach. From there, I am descending at a very shallow rate, and my speed drops considerably as I approach the end of the runway and am gently pulling back on the stick preparing to flare. At that point, I'm at around 100 mph. I guess it's a feel thing.

But keeping the RPM up is the norm according to every pilot I have talked to, and indeed I have found it to work quite well as I can control things much better as I bring the plane down.

[escaner]

I have just been trying this mission and I don't understand how you make it at 200 mph (the instrument is in mph, not knots) on the runway.

 

As an example, in this video I kept gear up, flaps up, throttle idle and RPM low (lowest resistance with idle power), glided all I could at 190 mph which is the speed at the start of the mission and made it to the touchdown zone in the runway just dropping the gear and 20º flaps at 150 ft over the field.

 

 

If you start lowering flaps and gear before, it is impossible to make it at idle.

 

Now to land, try the following:

 

At the start, RPM full forward, throttle just above the landing gear horn and lower the flaps 1 point, maintaining altitude to decelerate.

 

At 150 mph, lower your gear and start descending looking for your correct glideslope. Maintain 150 mph adjusting the position of your nose. Maintain the glideslope with throttle. Of course, TRIM for that speed!

 

As you get closer to the runway, continue lowering flaps and reducing speed and retrimming. You should be over the threshold at less than 120 mph.

 

About the bouncing:

You need the correct speed and vertical velocity when touching down.

Reduce power when flaring, but not to idle, just slowly. At idle with full flaps, this plane falls down like a brick. Keep it flying just above the runway until you have a 3 point landing attitude. It is not easy, but a bit of power when touching down should help you.

[artmustel]

escaner, then I don't know if my setup is bad or I am doing something totally wrong.

 

As you mentioned, mission starts at 190mph...but my manifold pressure starts at 55. and the plane is flying very angled to land. I barely have time to correct pitch to avoid crash, then I try to lower pressure to 30 or under but then since I had to pull nose up speed starts increasing so when I finally get to the runway threshold plane speed is over 200.

 

I am sure I am doing it wrong or those 55 rpm at start and the very angled plane towards land are not like they are supposed to be, probably it is related to my joystick or the else but I cannot reach runway under 200 mph...

 

Thanks, your video is great! Now after watching it I think you are idling from start? I will try that and see if I can reach the strip.

Edited February 25, 2017 by artmustel

[Blech]

Hi,

 

Check your Joystick-axis-settings (Throttle, RPM) for NO double bindings and activate "Synchronize Controls on Mission Start"

 

Perhaps you will find the three videos concerning landing as helpfull

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3061098&postcount=16

[Habu_69]

I am also intrigued by your problem. If you have multiple "joystick devices" the DCSW program may assign the same axis (read throttle) to multiple devices, a problem for sure. The undesired assignments must be manually cleared in Controls app. Throttle should be reduced to 20 inches MP and RPMs to about 2700 well before starting crosswind turn.

[artmustel]

Blech, where do you activate "Synchronize Controls on mission start?

 

Habu_69, I don't have multiple devices. also, this mission is final approach, very close to runway. I just can't get it right. If I idle right after starting it as escaner suggested and shows in his video I am unable to get to runway, even trimming. Really I don't understand why this missions starts with 55 of manifold pressure, at least for me it does.

 

Thanks to both!

[artmustel]

i found the "Synchronize" option! Thanks Blech, now mission starts as it should!

[escaner]

If I idle right after starting it as escaner suggested and shows in his video I am unable to get to runway, even trimming. Really I don't understand why this missions starts with 55 of manifold pressure, at least for me it does.

 

It is fine if you don't reach the runway at idle. If you lower flaps or gear you will have more drag, and also if you don't fly perfectly coordinated with the ball in the turn coordinator centered using your pedals (yaw axis). I just wanted you to realize that between reaching the runway at 200 mph and not reaching it at all, it must be possible to reach it at the correct speed.

 

You will need to keep adjusting engine power throughout the approach, there is not a magic setting that will do. As you start lowering flaps and gear the resistance increases and you need to readjust your pitch, trim, throttle and yaw.

 

In a visual approach, you need to look basically two things: airspeed and runway. As I said before: maintain the airspeed with pitch (if you are slow, pitch down; if you are fast, pitch up), trimming it. And keep your glideslope with throttle (if you are low, add power; if you are high, reduce power). You can also look at the ball from time to time to check that it is centered and you fly coordinated.

 

Have you flown more aircraft in DCS? The WW2 fighters are probably the hardest to start with along with some helicopters.

[artmustel]

I will be following your suggestions Escaner, your help has been great.

 

Also, have my throttle "synchronized" (as blech suggested) eliminated one big headache I was having with this mission: that it started with an absurdly high speed and MP.

 

I am in DCS since last January and just have tried the jets out of curiosity but I really don't like them much so I am spending my DCS time with the WW2 fighters.

 

Thanks!