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World Scale is off (Everything is tiny!)


NakedSquirrel
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The scale of the world is 'off' in VR. In DCS... everything is small.

 

I've seen several threads mention this (most of them from last year). Users seem to hum and haw over whether the scale is off or not, blaming IPD, head position, or perspective. I'll admit, I did the same originally, but after a while, it seemed to nag me that most of the sticks/throttles/switches in game seemed oddly small. I wasn't certain at first, because I've never sat in any of these aircraft, so I didn't want to burst out and blame the game for getting the scale wrong.

 

After flying for a bit, I started to get the feeling that the in game world was miniaturized. Especially when looking at the A-10C. I use a Thrustmaster Warthog, and noticed that my stick and throttle in real life seemed much larger than the stick and throttle in game.

 

I'm new to VR, so I mulled over the idea of it simply being my 'perspective' or perhaps IPD or VR settings throwing my perception off, but the thing that made it clear that it was the world scale that is off is the Vive touch controllers.

 

DCS renders a pair of hands on the touch controllers (they aren't functional for flipping switches or anything at the moment, but they do render in game) I noticed the hands are much larger than the pilot avatars when you enable "Show pilot in cockpit"

 

n3spzp.jpg

 

Here is a crappy image, but it should display the difference between my giant Vive controller hand and the tiny Ka50 pilot hand in game. The Vive controller hand seem about the right size for a normal hand, and it shows that the scale (or FoV) of the game is a little off.

 

So if you were thinking things seem oddly 'small' in DCS... they are. It's not your IPD or seat position... it's just the world scale.

 

I haven't found any way to change the FoV in the game settings. There are cockpit FoV settings, but they don't seem to affect VR.

 

 

If anyone knows of a way to change the world scale, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, It is just have to wait for a fix.

 

S!

Modules: A10C, AV8, M2000C, AJS-37, MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-15, F86F, F5E, F14A/B, F16C, F18C, P51, P47, Spitfire IX, Bf109K, Fw190-D, UH-1, Ka-50, SA342 Gazelle, Mi8, Christian Eagle II, CA, FC3

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The scale of the world is 'off' in VR. In DCS... everything is small.

 

I've seen several threads mention this (most of them from last year). Users seem to hum and haw over whether the scale is off or not, blaming IPD, head position, or perspective. I'll admit, I did the same originally, but after a while, it seemed to nag me that most of the sticks/throttles/switches in game seemed oddly small. I wasn't certain at first, because I've never sat in any of these aircraft, so I didn't want to burst out and blame the game for getting the scale wrong.

 

After flying for a bit, I started to get the feeling that the in game world was miniaturized. Especially when looking at the A-10C. I use a Thrustmaster Warthog, and noticed that my stick and throttle in real life seemed much larger than the stick and throttle in game.

 

I'm new to VR, so I mulled over the idea of it simply being my 'perspective' or perhaps IPD or VR settings throwing my perception off, but the thing that made it clear that it was the world scale that is off is the Vive touch controllers.

 

DCS renders a pair of hands on the touch controllers (they aren't functional for flipping switches or anything at the moment, but they do render in game) I noticed the hands are much larger than the pilot avatars when you enable "Show pilot in cockpit"

 

n3spzp.jpg

 

Here is a crappy image, but it should display the difference between my giant Vive controller hand and the tiny Ka50 pilot hand in game. The Vive controller hand seem about the right size for a normal hand, and it shows that the scale (or FoV) of the game is a little off.

 

So if you were thinking things seem oddly 'small' in DCS... they are. It's not your IPD or seat position... it's just the world scale.

 

I haven't found any way to change the FoV in the game settings. There are cockpit FoV settings, but they don't seem to affect VR.

 

 

If anyone knows of a way to change the world scale, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, It is just have to wait for a fix.

 

S!

+1

 

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Are you saying everything in game is smaller than if you looked on your monitor? Wouldn't all things being equal apply; so long as all things [sticks/throttles/switches] you look at are of equal size proportion it shouldn't matter.

 

 

Well actually fitness88 one of the qualities of VR is supposed 1:1 scale, at least in a title such as this, so if things are smaller, which to be honest I have felt may be the case as well. And if so it does negate this aspect of VR somewhat. It is not like everything is scaled for 'little people' but it seems it does need to be increased a certain percentage value to be true 1:1 scale.


Edited by Torso
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Are you saying everything in game is smaller than if you looked on your monitor? Wouldn't all things being equal apply; so long as all things [sticks/throttles/switches] you look at are of equal size proportion it shouldn't matter.

 

No. In VR if things are not to scale you know it and it feels off and it kills the immersion.

 

Having said that I don't get this feeling in DCS at all. I can't tell at all what the OP is trying to show in that image. And also if it is tsking this much time and so much thought and uncertainty the scale is close enough.

 

Just try another game where they get this really wrong and I don't think you'll be complaining about DCS.

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Well actually fitness88 one of the qualities of VR is supposed 1:1 scale, at least in a title such as this, so if things are smaller, which to be honest I have felt may be the case as well. And if so it does negate this aspect of VR somewhat. It is not like everything is scaled for 'little people' but it seems it does need to be increased a certain percentage value to be true 1:1 scale.

 

I guess you lose some of the sense of immersion. Is it the hardware? What are you using?

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World Scale is off (Everything is tiny!)

 

Scale is off, always been in dcs. Even in monitor.

 

Now i have rift and everything feels still bit small, Sense of height is not there , its easy to test , just eject and land your pilot top of building and take look around you.

 

Scale is like im in somekind miniature world. Buildings wont look right , even im right next of them they still look too small.

 

Every other vr game you really feel the height etc

 

So yes , something is not right in dcs.

 

 

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Actually, I have an opposite impression, that the cockpits often appear bigger than I remember them from real life. Usually the older models have this issue, for example P-51 feels huuuge in DCS, while the Spitfire and Viggen are more what I would expect. Mirage cockpit may be a bit on the tiny side, but I sat in a real one a few years ago and it was properly cramped, so even if the Razbam's model is off, it's not by much.

 

Evaluating world scale by looking at the cockpit parts may not be the best idea, because often the 3D cockpit model is simply not accurate, which I think is the case with the A-10 cockpit. Keep in mind that this model was created more or less 10 years ago. 3D artists often don't have the exact dimensions of the cockpit parts, so they approximate it from the photos.

 

A better way to test the world scale would be to load the external model and do a walkaround. Exterior models are usually of correct size.

 

However, I think having a world scale slider like other games would be the best option, then everyone would be able to set it to his liking.


Edited by some1

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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Here is a crappy image, but it should display the difference between my giant Vive controller hand and the tiny Ka50 pilot hand in game. The Vive controller hand seem about the right size for a normal hand, and it shows that the scale (or FoV) of the game is a little off.

 

There's a flaw in your logic there. Both "Vive controller hand" and pilot's hand are rendered using the same world scale as they are part of DCS engine. It's just that one of the 3D models put by ED is bigger than the other. Again, Ka-50 model is quite old and probably was never tested in 3D during its creation, so it may be off scale.


Edited by some1

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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Look outside the cockpit at a hummer truck for example, look at its door. Do you think you can fit inside? Look at the A10 wing, it should be around 7meters, does it look like it is? Compare it to your real height.

 

Note thar if the scale depends on people IPD we all might see different scale.

 

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Look outside the cockpit at a hummer truck for example, look at its door. Do you think you can fit inside? Look at the A10 wing, it should be around 7meters, does it look like it is? Compare it to your real height.

 

Note thar if the scale depends on people IPD we all might see different scale.

 

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we need exactly this possibility Enlarge Decrease world scale

like this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhDL0lmI7hI

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A general scale slider is not a proper solution. It can be used for cheating and people perception may vary too much.

The question is what causes the scaling issues? If it is different IPD then we should be able to select the ipd value. Or if it is wrong 3d modeling, then models should be fixed.

 

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A general scale slider is not a proper solution. It can be used for cheating and people perception may vary too much.

The question is what causes the scaling issues? If it is different IPD then we should be able to select the ipd value. Or if it is wrong 3d modeling, then models should be fixed.

 

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hello

States that IPD is problem (IPD is not problem). We already discussed about this on the forums. The most of good games have option to set a size of cockpit and the outside world. Could this option exist in the DCS? I see nothing wrong on it. If the option will exist in DCS, everyone can feel immersion VR, depending how VR cockpit was set.

game used word scale: project cars ,flyinside,and many games...

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Its a FOV thing.

Human eye has a narrow FOV for focus area, and the peripheral the extends out to, dunno 170 degrees? We dont in VR, not in the same way, and we still have a FOV (eye) within a FOV (VR). Is really hard to explain. But its the lack of that focus FOV that is making things look smaller.

 

That their planes are off scale, I find that very very hard to believe. Sure probably a couple of cm +/- depending on reference material and data.

And model size/shape aside, pixel / mm or cm or m, also has a massive impact on the feeling of being off scale. This is mainly for world/scenery. You can sit at the correct height, say 3m above ground, but if the ground looks like you are only 50cm above it, due to the pixel scale, well bubble bursts again.

 

Racing game titles, viewing the cars from the outside more than often make them look like a 60-70% scaled car, and I can assure you, those models are in most cases bang on and so is the world/track. Either based on CAD data, on in some cases, laser scanned.

If those worlds were off scale, it will open a can of worms in terms of performance and laptimes, and G's. You'd have to scale everything, and even have the ingame time run slower. Same would be the case for DCS, just makes no sense.

 

Nope its a VR thing, not a given virtual world effect.

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

| MSI Z87-G45 Gaming | i5-4670K @ 4.3Ghz | 32Gb DDR3 1600 | Asus GTX 1070 Strix OC | Samsung 850 Evo 250 & 500Gb | 40" Sony FullHD | Oculus Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick (19.5cm extension) & Throttle | MFG Crosswind | Windows 10 |

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Its a FOV thing.

Human eye has a narrow FOV for focus area, and the peripheral the extends out to, dunno 170 degrees? We dont in VR, not in the same way, and we still have a FOV (eye) within a FOV (VR). Is really hard to explain. But its the lack of that focus FOV that is making things look smaller.

 

That their planes are off scale, I find that very very hard to believe. Sure probably a couple of cm +/- depending on reference material and data.

And model size/shape aside, pixel / mm or cm or m, also has a massive impact on the feeling of being off scale. This is mainly for world/scenery. You can sit at the correct height, say 3m above ground, but if the ground looks like you are only 50cm above it, due to the pixel scale, well bubble bursts again.

 

Racing game titles, viewing the cars from the outside more than often make them look like a 60-70% scaled car, and I can assure you, those models are in most cases bang on and so is the world/track. Either based on CAD data, on in some cases, laser scanned.

If those worlds were off scale, it will open a can of worms in terms of performance and laptimes, and G's. You'd have to scale everything, and even have the ingame time run slower. Same would be the case for DCS, just makes no sense.

 

Nope its a VR thing, not a given virtual world effect.

FOV has nothing to do with scale in this case. You can easily adjust the scale in project cars or flyinside without touching the fov and everything looks fine there. I also doubt it is a 3d model issue so I m pretty sure it is the IPD.

AFAIK in flyinside scale adjust is done by changing the distance between the rendered images, which is related to the IPD.

 

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Planes are ok, but buildings and cranes etc.. feel small , in wont look natural.

 

Nevada is better, caucasus is off scale somehow.

 

 

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It doesn't really

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FOV has nothing to do with scale in this case. You can easily adjust the scale in project cars or flyinside without touching the fov and everything looks fine there. I also doubt it is a 3d model issue so I m pretty sure it is the IPD.

AFAIK in flyinside scale adjust is done by changing the distance between the rendered images, which is related to the IPD.

 

Ah ok, havent tried pCars or Flyinside, but sounds interesting the scale/IPD (on software side).

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

| MSI Z87-G45 Gaming | i5-4670K @ 4.3Ghz | 32Gb DDR3 1600 | Asus GTX 1070 Strix OC | Samsung 850 Evo 250 & 500Gb | 40" Sony FullHD | Oculus Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick (19.5cm extension) & Throttle | MFG Crosswind | Windows 10 |

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Ah ok, havent tried pCars or Flyinside, but sounds interesting the scale/IPD (on software side).

 

 

I was flying on x plane with zoom setting or reduction setting, I do not feel about speed changing or anything else undesirable in game

 

 

I will be thankfull for option size setting in DCS and I think I am not only one. I dont want having argue with someone if measeurements are fine or not

I would like have the size option in game, who´s with me, may add under discussion to application about these process. Thank you

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I don't feel that the scale is off in DCS. It just feels right... The depth perception is spot on.

I wonder if this may be some problem with setup of the VR hardware and software? Wrong position of the sensor? I don't know. All I know is that it looks great to me.

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No setup problem. All other VR games are spot on.

 

But dcs buildings look bit off even 2D monitor. (In caucasus map)

 

But lets wait new caucasus and 2.5 maybe it will change things.

 

 

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Planes are ok, but buildings and cranes etc.. feel small , in wont look natural.

 

Nevada is better, caucasus is off scale somehow.

 

At least typical Ukrainian house (the most numerous older ones built maybe in the 80s) is very small (something like a Finnish cottage) and that might apply to Georgia and Russian Caucasus also.

DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community

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Scale in VR is purely down to your perception and nothing more. If you convince yourself the scale is out, you will just see it as being wrong. However, there is nothing at all outside the environment of VR to compare it to, so scale is totally irrelevant.

 

It just is what it is, and your mind provides the perception of scale, nothing else.

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