Is losing Radar Lock still a thing?

[tn_prvteye]

I've searched the forums, and it seemed there was an issue with Radar losing it's lock, particularly after firing a 530. This is happening to me all the time now. Most the shots are head-on, and the targets do start to beam. But every time? I haven't made a kill with the 530 in quite some time. The missile is just about to impact, and the scope goes blank. Can't even re-acquire.

 

Just wanting to see if this is indeed a bug, or I need to try a different approach.

[mvsgas]

Try locking the target from a lower altitude. Meaning, you are at a lower altitude than the target. Try creating a simple missions with aircraft that just fly straight and do not react to enemy, get below their altitude. Can you lock them? Will the 530 guide to them? try from different aspects, altitudes, small aircraft, large ones, etc.

[myHelljumper]

Working as expected on my side.

[jojo]

Probably that:

[westr]

I tend to always scale my radar down accordingly and it seems to make a difference. It might make no difference at all but it's a habit I've got into and it seems to work for me. What I mean is if I'm tracking the target and radar range is set to 80km and he gets within 20km I don't leave the radar range at 80 I scale it down to 20 and it seems to assist in maintaining my lock. Of course as the guys have said above notching is the technique that is being performed to break your lock so that will always be a factor.

[jojo]

radar range is in nautical miles, not in km :thumbup:

[westr]

radar range is in nautical miles, not in km :thumbup:

 

Yeah sorry I mean NM. :)

[tn_prvteye]

I started switching to Medium Freq ENT mode after the target gets into range, and that seemed to help keep a lock a little bit. Still getting blasted out of the sky quite often. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mirage, but its survivability seems a bit low...at least in the BVW department. It will totally kick ass in the dogfight, though.

[jojo]

I started switching to Medium Freq ENT mode after the target gets into range, and that seemed to help keep a lock a little bit. Still getting blasted out of the sky quite often. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mirage, but its survivability seems a bit low...at least in the BVW department. It will totally kick ass in the dogfight, though.

 

Fox 1 fighters requires more work work than Fox 3 shooters.

Especially you need to work as a team. A pair should be the minimum and 4 is better.

The idea is to get at least local numerical superiority, or use some fighters as decoy to allow one to close in and perform Fox 1 shoot at close range.

 

In 1 Vs 1 you have serious disadvantage Vs Fox 3 shooter.

 

You need to master crank maneuver after shooting to succeed in Fox 1 shooting and survive.

Shoot/ crank/ pump (up to 1mn)/ recommit.

And that's where team work becomes handy. It's better if you have buddies covering you during the pump.

[tn_prvteye]

Yeah, but I'm a single-player guy, and my AI wingmen can be...difficult sometimes. :)

[jojo]

It's less bad if the AI wingman is set to excellent...

 

Take the lead and tell him to engage enemy.

Splash your target and try to support him when you recommit.

[Jugdriver]

What Range are you firing at? If you can get within TIR range your chance of a hit goes up a lot and if the guy you are shooting at does notch you you are fairly close and can get withing Magic range quickly or take a second 530 shot as they turn back in.

 

Do you know if you are shooting from PID (TWS)? The system will automatically switch to PIC (STT) from PID when you go to fire a 530, but because that was not modeled at first you use to have to hit the target designation a second time to put the system into PIC, it is a force of habit now for me and I do it every time, if you are shooting from PID I suggest trying to put the radar in PIC mode first then fire and see if your results are different. The reason I suggest this is that PID (TWS) has a known issue with dropping targets and there might be an problem there.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

Edited February 15, 2017 by Jugdriver

[Fri13]

In my understanding, even every active seeker missile is never launched in TWS mode but in STT as TWS lag causes problem at once target starts maneuvers and missile is lost as it is heading to somewhere else than at target to get it in basket.

 

And TWS lag ain't simulated in DCS so it is currently very OP feature.

[jojo]

What Range are you firing at? If you can get within TIR range your chance of a hit goes up a lot and if the guy you are shooting at does notch you you are fairly close and can get withing Magic range quickly or take a second 530 shot as they turn back in.

 

Do you know if you are shooting from PID (TWS)? The system will automatically switch to PIC (STT) from PID when you go to fire a 530, but because that was not modeled at first you use to have to hit the target designation a second time to put the system into PIC, it is a force of habit now for me and I do it every time, if you are shooting from PID I suggest trying to put the radar in PIC mode first then fire and see if your results are different. The reason I suggest this is that PID (TWS) has a known issue with dropping targets and there might be an problem there.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

I always shoot from PID, and crank hard after missile firing. Once the radar is in PIC there is no problem anymore.

[jojo]

In my understanding, even every active seeker missile is never launched in TWS mode but in STT as TWS lag causes problem at once target starts maneuvers and missile is lost as it is heading to somewhere else than at target to get it in basket.

 

And TWS lag ain't simulated in DCS so it is currently very OP feature.

 

We are a little bit off topic here, but please what is your source or what makes you think that ?

 

Locking a target in STT gives the target a warning and a reason to maneuver.

Shooting in TWS gives less or no warning. And I think all modern fighter operate that way.

[Fri13]

We are a little bit off topic here, but please what is your source or what makes you think that ?

 

It was a discussions in the Falcon BMS forum or about it, where ex-pilot intervened discussion about real procedures.

 

Locking a target in STT gives the target a warning and a reason to maneuver.

Shooting in TWS gives less or no warning. And I think all modern fighter operate that way.

 

That is one of the false assumptions in the first place. The target already gets a warning that there is a TWS capable threat, and starts to maneuvers already to deny the missile launch.

 

No experienced pilot will come hot at you thinking that you might not have launched in TWS and wait that RWR starts screaming when missile goes pitbull.

 

Once your TWS triggers the enemy RWR, they know what to expect and does correspondence maneuvers causing TWS to drop because lag and you have lost the missile. They know you are there, they know your distance etc and actions, so they are already prepared and will use TWS against you.

 

This is why a STT with M2KC is the best and correct option against fighters. Totally different thing when going against transport aircraft or other large and slow ones where TWS prediction lag can't cause lock to be lost.

 

And this just puts all fighters in bad position in DCS as TWS (and other modes) ain't modeled correctly as it would drop lock easily against maneuvering fighters.

 

TWS has its uses but not at all in cases as people think. And in DCS we are missing so many capabilities that it just ain't even funny.

[jojo]

It was a discussions in the Falcon BMS forum or about it, where ex-pilot intervened discussion about real procedures.

 

Ok, so it was about F-16 procedures, right ?

Maybe there are some better radars than APG-68 today ?

[Jugdriver]

I always shoot from PID, and crank hard after missile firing. Once the radar is in PIC there is no problem anymore.

 

The Radar is in STT before the Missile leaves the rail right? You press the fire button the radar switches to STT (causing a small delay) and then the missile fires, at least that was my understanding of it.

 

I lock the radar in STT and fire a quarter second later, same effect.

 

So what I was wondering is if the radar is in PID/TWS and the contact is lost, does the radar track memory still allow you to fire against a target (the radar goes into PIC/STT) but then loses the contact soon after? That is what I was thinking with regards to the OP.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[RastahMan]

Medium frequency only alter detection range and detection itself. To guide weapons like 530D, radar always switch to high frequency.

[jojo]

 

So what I was wondering is if the radar is in PID/TWS and the contact is lost, does the radar track memory still allow you to fire against a target (the radar goes into PIC/STT) but then loses the contact soon after? That is what I was thinking with regards to the OP.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

I don't think so.

It would be easier to see what happens with a track.

[Fri13]

Ok, so it was about F-16 procedures, right ?

Maybe there are some better radars than APG-68 today ?

Actually i think he was a F-16 / F-18 pilot....

 

But still point being that TWS should drop guidance locks to maneuvering target and rendering the missile useless.

 

It is just as well a problem as in games you can't use realistic tactics as the systems ain't simulated, and this gives huge advantage to simmers who can exploit these simplified systems and just press on while launching in TWS mode against maneuvering targets while maneuvering itself.

 

And this puts M2KC interesting one as its radar lock losses sounds more realistic. But still something needs checking as it drops so often.

[myHelljumper]

It has nothing to do with the M2000, you can't guide a 530D in PID mode AFAIK.

 

In my experience you loose lock more often in PID than PIC, so no exploit here and I have no lock issues in PIC when in look-up.

[Oldfox]

I had a splash yesterday after losing the lock when the bandit notched me, I relocked him and missile went straight to his face again. I could see the missile getting back on the lock on the tacview track. Lock was of course PIC.

[OnlyforDCS]

I have yet to score a hit against anything other than the AWACS or tankers in multiplayer with the S530D.

 

But it still does it's job pretty well, putting the target on the defensive so I can close in for the kill. The few kills I've managed to rack up with the M2000C (using the MagicII and guns) I've managed to hold lock at least 50% of the time. I also switch to HUD mode as soon as I lose the lock, and that usually reacquires the target very quickly.

[lemoen]

I have yet to score a hit against anything other than the AWACS or tankers in multiplayer with the S530D.

 

But it still does it's job pretty well, putting the target on the defensive so I can close in for the kill. The few kills I've managed to rack up with the M2000C (using the MagicII and guns) I've managed to hold lock at least 50% of the time. I also switch to HUD mode as soon as I lose the lock, and that usually reacquires the target very quickly.

 

 

They're not that bad. You need to help them a bit. Launching at maximum range is not going to help you much, except put the enemy on the defensive. Launching when you have the double circle helps, also, the closer you get the better. Make sure you are going as fast as possible and launch the missile while pointing to the intercept director.

 

Real missiles don't have a high hit percentage against maneuvering targets, expect to use 2 missiles to get a kill.