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No landing gear lock IAS >550kmh / w.o.w


jowl
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As I understood SFI landing gear operation should be locked up if speed is more then 550kmh. Also should be locked in down if there is weight on wheels.

 

I'm able to move the gear leaver regardles of speed/w.o.w.

 

The locking mechanism is on the gear leaver and produces a rather loud "clunk" that I've been told was a good indication that speed went under 550 (I'm slightly scpetical, but perhaps they felt it more then heard it)

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No landing gear lock IAS >550kmh / w.o.w

 

You can't lower the gear if speed is above 550 & and you can't retract it if your throttle is at a position corresponding to a rpm below 85%.

Below 85% rpm it's locked physically, not sure how it's locked if above 550, some sort of electronic lock I guess.

^

How the real level work

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There's also a thumb lock thing that you have to depress to operate the lever, right? Is that something completely different?

 

There is a leaver next to the LG to unlock. If I recall correctly secured by wire.

 

You can't lower the gear if speed is above 550 & and you can't retract it if your throttle is at a position corresponding to a rpm below 85%.

Below 85% rpm it's locked physically, not sure how it's locked if above 550, some sort of electronic lock I guess.

^

How the real level work

 

You might be right on the down position lock, was a long time since I fiddled with the lock for our sim.


Edited by jowl
read to fast..
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I remember the "clunk" when decelerating past 550 in the Viggen sim at F15. I can't remember... Did the lock affect the gear handle, or the mechanism behind it? I mean, is it possible to move the handle, but the gear remains in, or is the handle itself locked?

I can't remember any sounds accelerating past 550...

I have asked a former Viggen pilot I know. Maybe he can help.

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I remember the "clunk" when decelerating past 550 in the Viggen sim at F15. I can't remember... Did the lock affect the gear handle, or the mechanism behind it? I mean, is it possible to move the handle, but the gear remains in, or is the handle itself locked?

I can't remember any sounds accelerating past 550...

I have asked a former Viggen pilot I know. Maybe he can help.

 

It locks the handle (actually got a spare gear handle lying around so I can snap a photo of the lock if I find it) if you herd the "clunk" they used the original lock. Guess hearing the "clunk" on accelration is depending on sound level in general (fi if they used an asskicker for EBK rumble)

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My ex Viggen pilot fried got back to me. He could not remember hearing the lock "clunk" when flying, but it did indeed lock the handle.

Granted, he spent most his career in JA. Maybe it's different?

 

Same handle, my guess is that you can hear/sense the clunk if you wait for it. It is very close to the seat. Also the internal noice from the engine/avionics cooling might be very different between JA/AJS.

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Same handle, my guess is that you can hear/sense the clunk if you wait for it. It is very close to the seat. Also the internal noice from the engine/avionics cooling might be very different between JA/AJS.

 

The sound of the lock is really apparent in the simulator at F15 at least. But I guess windnoise @550kmh and a real RM8 sounds quite a bit more than that simulator did, and a helmet will muffle sounds as well...

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In the simulator at F15 the clonk sound is more "hollow". Perhaps a resonance effect of the structure. It is more of a "Tock" than a "Tick". But may I suggest sending a question to SwAFHF and ask if this sound is heard in flight? The Viggen pilot I talked to could not remember hearing it... Could be bad memory, or hearing, or a combination ;)

 

Here's a clip from when I flew the AJS 37 Viggen sim at F15 museum. I'm pulling up in a loop and you can see the ASI winding down past 550km/h and hear the click. It's quite loud.

 


Edited by Goblin
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But would the click of a solenoid overpower the noise of the engine? My guess is that the need for ear protection is not there because of button presses in the cockpit ;)

I hope it isn't too loud if implemented and that the "hear as helmet" option reduces it hard.

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What I know for sure is that a AJS driver who has been very "fact oriented" (ie checking his notes) told me that the "clonk" was something he listened for as a indication to pull gear down for landing or as a warning of IAS <550.

My hope is that the LG lock "clonk" has a similar sound level as the MTG/FT clicks.

 

Another thing I noticed during the years of sim-building is that RL pilots have a hard time distinguishing between noices and tactile "bumps". I know for a fact that a B737 sim we at Swesim got has way to loud startup sounds, but been told by a bunch of RL pilots that it's spot on. And yes, I've lernt to ask them to put kindness away :)

 

Since the engine vibration is not there the brain settles for the loud sound as vibration. At least one major level-D sim operator takes this into account when tuning sounds in professional sims.

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I would also think that you could hear this, if you were aware of it. And the instructor (ex Viggen pilot) at the F15 sim mentioned this sound specifically, which would indicate that it had some importance. I've posted a question at a Viggen facebook group. Hopefully someone responds.

 

But anyway, the sound is definitely there... LNS can't go wrong by implementing it, IMO. After they put it in it's just a question of getting the volume level correct.

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I got a reply to my question on fb, from a retired Viggen pilot. He could not remember hearing the lock sound, and he thought he should have remembered it if he had heard it, since it must have been a recurring sound.

My friend the ex JA 37 pilot says more or less the same, and he added: If you ask Viggen pilots, I think most of them will say "what sound?" :)

 

The sound is there! There's no question about that. But based on these two answers I'd say that it shouldn't be too audible, especially not with "hear as in helmet" option activated.

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The thing is, a lot of the sounds in the cockpit probably aren't audible at all when you're actually flying the thing. Gear handle sound, HUD switching sound, throttle sound, etc. -- but we still like to implement them as they are immersive and are a replacement for the tacticle feedback of the real thing. :)

Nicholas Dackard

 

Founder & Lead Artist

Heatblur Simulations

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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I think that's a good idea.

Sound is one of very few feedback systems available in home PC flightsims, and can be a substitute for tactile feedback, if done right.

 

BTW, I just got another reply that said the sound was very audible in the AJ...

I guess we'll have to go with a 'PLAUSIBLE' on this myth... ;)

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The thing is, a lot of the sounds in the cockpit probably aren't audible at all when you're actually flying the thing. Gear handle sound, HUD switching sound, throttle sound, etc. -- but we still like to implement them as they are immersive and are a replacement for the tacticle feedback of the real thing. :)

 

IMO a very user friendly approach, anyhow - what's already done on the Viggen is just amazing!!

 

I think that's a good idea.

Sound is one of very few feedback systems available in home PC flightsims, and can be a substitute for tactile feedback, if done right.

 

BTW, I just got another reply that said the sound was very audible in the AJ...

I guess we'll have to go with a 'PLAUSIBLE' on this myth... ;)

 

I'd say confirmed. The first guy responding flew JA, second one AJ and he even kalled it a klonk! :D

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I'd say confirmed. The first guy responding flew JA, second one AJ and he even kalled it a klonk! :D

 

Well, since I can't confirm it myself, I have to go with plausible ;)

I wondered if the first answer was from a JA pilot, since my friend, who also answered "huh?" flew JA. Could be a difference between the versions then..?

Or, a theory I will present for my JA friend; Fighterpilots focus too much on themselves to notice the aircraft... ;)


Edited by Goblin
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