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Gazelle FM Testing


iFoxRomeo
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Hey Guys. I don´t have the Gazelle yet. I have to admit that I was kept away from this module because of videos I´ve seen, that showed a flightmodel, that I don´t consider "authentic".

That makes me very sad, as the external model, cockpit and sounds are very appealing.

 

I need someone who has the Gazelle and can perform a testflight with a video(and track) for me. With realistic setting of course.

 

No Polychop bashing here. Only constructive discussion.

The aim here has to be identifying problems, or better, confirming they´re not existent.

 

I do also know a few rotorheads(RL pilots) with whom I can discuss the Gazelle FM.

 

 

For the testflight the following conditions are required:

 

Weather: Temperature 15°C, QNH 760mmHQ/1013hPa, no wind, Clouds not lower than 2000ft or none, no precipitation

Aerodrome: Choose one at approx. sealevel, e.g. Sochi

Gazelle no weapons loaded.

Fuel up to max. t/o weight.

I made a testflight mission for that purpose. It´s for the present DCS Open Beta.

 

 

Very very important:

 

- Activate the controls window (rctrl+enter) before lifting

- Do not press the trim(mag) release button

- Do not trim

- Do not engage SAS. Switch SAS off if it is engaged after start up procedure. There seems to be a gyro for SAS. Switch it off.

 

Why not trimming? Polychop mentioned they use a different approach for the trim function than ED or Belsimtek. I want to cancel this function out.

Perhaps it leads to strange virtual stick positions as discussed before.

 

Why no SAS? Cancel out corrections done by the system without the pilot knowing what it corrects.

 

This way we should see all aerodynamic specialties a helicopter has to offer.

 

Flight:

 

1. Lift off

2. Stable hover for 10s

 

3. Commence take off

4. Continuously accelerate at ~20ft/AGL. Maintain this height till reaching maximum speed (up to Vne) with max. torque available in straight and level flight, then

 

5. Climb to approx. 1000ft msl and accelerate to max. speed again

6. Keep straight and level at 1000ft msl for approx 5s

 

7. Now keep (hold) cyclic and pedals in their current position and then reduce collective within 1s to full down. Do NOT correct the helicopters attitude

8. If necessary, after 5s recover the helicopter

 

9. Climb again to 1000ft msl and set the torque to 2/3 max. available torque. Fly straight and level

10. Wait for the speed to stabilize, keep it for 5s

 

11. Now keep (hold) cyclic and pedals in their current position and then rapidly increase collective to max. torque available. Do NOT correct the helicopters attitude

12. If necessary, after 5s recover the helicopter

 

That should do it for now.

Explanations will follow by reference to that testflight video.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Second request:

 

How does the controlsystem/linkage in the 342 differ from the 341? I only have the schematics of the 341. http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=1836 page 170

Does someone know a source for the 342 Flightmanual?

 

 

 

Fox

Testflight_Gazelle.miz

Eagle Dynamics, ceterum censeo: dare nobis ME CCLXII!

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These FM threads are getting really ennoying. Can't you just piggy back of the largest one and join the community of lovers/haters?

Thank you for your constructive feedback....

 

I don´t belong to haters. I´d like to become a Gazelle lover.

 

Do you know dissymetry of lift? Or reverse airflow?

With that "testflight" video, one can see and explain some helicopter-specific aerodynamic effects and if they are realized in the Gazelle´s FM or not.

 

 

Fox

Eagle Dynamics, ceterum censeo: dare nobis ME CCLXII!

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PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 64GB RAM 3600Mhz, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB, HP Reverb (G1)

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I have had the Gazelle since it was released.

While it may not be perfect, it is FAR BETTER now than it was. There are still some issues but I don't see the FM as being one of them .... except for maybe the somewhat uncontrollable speed wobble (Roll Axis) one can easily get into (but not out of) when cornering fast/sharply. It does a Pendulum type roll thingy that I can't figure out.

It "might be" realistic but it sure feels weird and prevents me from being able to fly it nearly as well as I can with a Huey. But again, it may well just be Me !!

 

I think any required Tweaking is probably minimal.

 

Go ahead and purchase the Gazelle and give it a try.

SnowTiger:joystick:

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I have Gazelle Romeo. Let me know when you are ready and I can twitch those maneuvers for you. Tonight maybe ?

 

Take care Bro.

Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Gigabyte GTX 1080Ti 11 GB | 32GB DDR4@4200MHz | HP Reverb | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds | DCS PD 1.0 / Steam VR SS 170%

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Thank you for your constructive feedback....

 

I don´t belong to haters. I´d like to become a Gazelle lover.

 

Do you know dissymetry of lift? Or reverse airflow?

With that "testflight" video, one can see and explain some helicopter-specific aerodynamic effects and if they are realized in the Gazelle´s FM or not.

 

 

Fox

 

I fly choppers IRL, so yes, I know those things. Thank you. What about you?

It's just that your thread is just another open door to trolls. The accuracy of the Gazelle FM has been extensively discussed since it came out, and I believe this is the reason why we don't see people from PolyChop anymore for months on this part of the forum, which is pretty sad.

Sorry if my reaction was a bit harsh. You might have not looked at this forum regularly nor have time to check to history of it. Just to give you a hint about how FM discussions have been 'sensitive' on this forum, here is a non exhaustive list of threads about it. You can look at if you really have a lot of time in your hands:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180926

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178530

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167607

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168731

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173771

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173920

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173821

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171826

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171084

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170083

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168889

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167964

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166789

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166572

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166743

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165727

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165901

 

I think I have read them all, and that's why I was a bit over reactive about your post. Please go ahead with your inquiry. It's fine.


Edited by BaD CrC
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BaD CrC summed it all up. There has been a ton of threads about this already.

 

Obviously there cannot be this many investigations if everything is alright with the FM. Some say its quite real, some say its far off.

 

Dedication and communication is a great tool to keep threads like this to a minimum. More and more discussions and speculations are piling up, so please Polychop give us an update on the

Gazelle progress. Tuning of the FM, Sights for the 342L, fixes to the Mistral version, Sniper Team variant etc.

 

Answer those who have put hours into these "investigations".

 

I think that is very reasonable and will cool down some of the very.. ehh.. enthusiastic Gazelle pilots ;)

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I fly choppers IRL, so yes, I know those things. Thank you. What about you?

It's just that your thread is just another open door to trolls. The accuracy of the Gazelle FM has been extensively discussed since it came out, and I believe this is the reason why we don't see people from PolyChop anymore for months on this part of the forum, which is pretty sad.

Sorry if my reaction was a bit harsh. You might have not looked at this forum regularly nor have time to check to history of it. Just to give you a hint about how FM discussions have been 'sensitive' on this forum, here is a non exhaustive list of threads about it. You can look at if you really have a lot of time in your hands:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180926

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178530

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167607

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168731

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173771

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173920

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173821

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171826

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171084

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170083

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168889

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=167964

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166789

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166572

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=166743

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165727

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165901

 

I think I have read them all, and that's why I was a bit over reactive about your post. Please go ahead with your inquiry. It's fine.

"Maverick Su-35S" has posted the best formulated questioning of the FM (I think) here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178530&page=3

 

The Gaz FM is disconnected from the air and is much like manoeuvring a moonlander in vacuum.

It can certainly be both difficult and fun, but has not much to do with rotorcraft flying...

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Although its a nice post, I think Polychop already know EFM needs tweaking, Its done when its done.

Coxy_99, my question wasn´t what PolyChop is aware about. I want to see status quo of the Gazelles FM.

 

...

Go ahead and purchase the Gazelle and give it a try.

I´d like to buy the Gazelle. But as I am disappointed by other 3rd Party Devs(no discussion here) I simply want to see the FM in defined flight situations before I buy this module.

I have Gazelle Romeo. Let me know when you are ready and I can twitch those maneuvers for you. Tonight maybe ?

 

Take care Bro.

Pedro my Bro! Thanks! Unfortunately my time is very limited right now. I hope we can twitch and fly next month.

 

I fly choppers IRL, so yes, I know those things. Thank you. What about you?

It's just that your thread is just another open door to trolls. The accuracy of the Gazelle FM has been extensively discussed since it came out, and I believe this is the reason why we don't see people from PolyChop anymore for months on this part of the forum, which is pretty sad.

Sorry if my reaction was a bit harsh. You might have not looked at this forum regularly nor have time to check to history of it. Just to give you a hint about how FM discussions have been 'sensitive' on this forum, here is a non exhaustive list of threads about it. You can look at if you really have a lot of time in your hands:

...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165901

 

I think I have read them all, and that's why I was a bit over reactive about your post. Please go ahead with your inquiry. It's fine.

I know those things too. What would that change, if I was a RL pilot? The next question one could ask then: Did/Do you fly the Gazelle? I don´t think it is compulsory to be a pilot in order to discuss a FM. How many FM coders at ED/BST/3rd Party are pilots? I think you should judge me by the arguments I would come up with.

I want to see if the FM is "authentic". Accuracy is a different topic. E.g. amount of stick travel can be discussed, but there has to be stick travel, and I can explain why the stick has to travel, so do you as a RL helicopter pilot.

 

You´re right, I didn´t have the time to visit the forums regularly. So I skimmed the threads you posted. I already knew some of them, some were new to me. If nothing changed since the last thread in your list https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165901 I´d be very sad. But still I´d like to see the present status of the Gazelle´s FM.

 

I understand why you fear trolls. I fear them too.

 

... so please Polychop give us an update on the

Gazelle progress. Tuning of the FM, Sights for the 342L, fixes to the Mistral version, Sniper Team variant etc.

 

Answer those who have put hours into these "investigations".

...

Please do not capture my thread for "Polychop give us an update...". That is not the purpose of this thread.

 

Do you even translational lift, bro? :D

I´ll lift my butt and translate into my bed now....

 

Fox

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Eagle Dynamics, ceterum censeo: dare nobis ME CCLXII!

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PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 64GB RAM 3600Mhz, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB, HP Reverb (G1)

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BTW iFoxRomeo FYI

I failed to mention that there is a recent thread/post (unfortunately I have yet to be able to relocate it ... it is a Polychop Gazelle Forum Thread) in which someone had recently Interviewed a Known RL Gazelle Pilot during which MANY of the questions most of us have asked were asked and answered .... as detailed in said unknown but recent thread/post.

I will still try to find it.

 

It is very informative; to the point and very helpful.

 

It was pretty clearly implied that the pilot deemed the sim Gazelle's FM to be pretty darn accurate (but not necessarily perfect)>>>> All PARAPHRASED of course.

SnowTiger:joystick:

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BTW iFoxRomeo FYI

I failed to mention that there is a recent thread/post (unfortunately I have yet to be able to relocate it ... it is a Polychop Gazelle Forum Thread) in which someone had recently Interviewed a Known RL Gazelle Pilot during which MANY of the questions most of us have asked were asked and answered .... as detailed in said unknown but recent thread/post.

I will still try to find it.

 

It is very informative; to the point and very helpful.

 

It was pretty clearly implied that the pilot deemed the sim Gazelle's FM to be pretty darn accurate (but not necessarily perfect)>>>> All PARAPHRASED of course.

 

DocWilly posted a series of questions and answers with an EC135 Pilot:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181563&page=3

 

This does not get into the odd cyclic/power dynamics (re centering of cyclic during all phases of flight, etc.)

 

The only IRL Gazelle guy I know of wouldn't answer any specific questions, thought of it as a "toy", attacked anyone asking intelligent questions, etc.

 

"It's fun once you stop expecting it to fly like a helicopter" - current US Army Helicopter pilot, summer 2016

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No testing, no bashing, just saying that the flight model seems much, MUCH improved from what it was some 4 months ago when I last tried the chopper. OK, continue plz ;)

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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"Maverick Su-35S" has posted the best formulated questioning of the FM (I think) here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178530&page=3

 

The Gaz FM is disconnected from the air and is much like manoeuvring a moonlander in vacuum.

It can certainly be both difficult and fun, but has not much to do with rotorcraft flying...

 

Couldn't agree more, unfortunately.

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