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F-15C + AIM120 So Unfair!


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:lol:

 

This post just proved that you don't know jack sh1t about missle performance envelope or the actually performance of missiles within lockon.

 

Here's a hint, roughly 1.6kms in a mile and most important......the ingame encyclopedia entries lie....... 110km missiles. Buhahahahaha :megalol:

 

Max range for an ER @ 5000m to a target @ 2000m is 40kms TOPS..... If all goes well and your target flies straight at you without ECM and chaff.

 

Yep, but when those things 'aren't happening' the missile will happily kill things from 140km away under 'good circumstances'. This has been demonstrated by at least one person so far - those missiles do have the range, practical usethereof aside.

 

Also Russian SARH missiles seem to re-establish datalink on re-lock, while US ones do not, but that was something I tested a while ago and I forgot to check again - at this point though these might give the impression of very extended range.

 

Also I'm not sure what the climb to 20000 is all about for dodging the missile ...

 

 

I love also the way that the servers with crap upload connections blame printscreening for all the warp. 20 players on a 1 MBit connection. :megalol:

 

You would be lucky to have 4 fps when even 1 missile is launched.

 

 

 

Sometimes it's the server, sometimes it's the complaining player's connection, sometimes it is the 'printscreener's' connection (missiles require a lot of updates to guide) and sometimes it is legitimate.

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out climbing it...

 

^^^^and giving the missile a clearer view to your increasingly slower plane.

 

Outclimbing your oponent is good before each shoots in the attempt for giving your shots more range. Trying to outclimb your oponent for dodging a missile is nearly a suicidal move. Youll loose energy for escape and reduce clutter. Idealy you should start high and loose altitude into the clutter and for gaining speed/manueverability.

 

If you need to escape a persistent chasing enemy dont outclimb him, but restart your ascent gently into thinner atmosphere for higher mach numbers.

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out climbing it...

 

There's no such thing. Do an orthogonal barrel roll, or run away from it, or notch it ... but 'outclimbing it' essentially guarantees that the missile doesn't have to come down for you where the air is denser, it's co-alt or look-up, making it less susceptible to countermeasures. The missile is always aiming for a collision course. You won't be out-climbing it unless it's in its death throes, at which point it is simpler and easier to just roll over it or run from it.

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Also Russian SARH missiles seem to re-establish datalink on re-lock, while US ones do not, but that was something I tested a while ago and I forgot to check again - at this point though these might give the impression of very extended range.

 

That's true, but only if target will be still in missiles FOV at relock moment.

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Trop- You have chosen the most slippery & dangerous road that you could have and now begins the drive around a long & merciless learning curve. Right now- you feel like you're riding a unicycle down the middle lane of the Autobahn. How do I know this? I've been there. Most of us have.

 

Consider this- You are learning to fly a complex simulation -online- against VETERANS with YEARS of experience.

 

The servers have NO easy functions enabled to give away the situation that lies before you. You have to use & interpret your instruments and communicate with your team.

 

You don't yet have the experience you need to take in, process, and make timely decisions that determine your success & survival- yet you continue to show up and fly every night.

 

That takes balls and a thick skin. You're doing fine and whether you beleive it or not- you are no different than anyone else at this stage. So get up- dust off and get back in that pit.

 

Actually- you're not 100% normal. If anything- you're ahead of a lot of nuggets because you have dedicated yourself to study more than most.

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I ll start off by saying that i am NOT an experienced pilot, i ve only been flying for 2 weeks, and this is the first sim i take in my hands, so if you want you can flame me for what i am about to say, i ll sure say it anyway because for once i feel let down, and second if i feel there is an issue i d like that to be known it s no use to keep it for myself.

 

Since i started playing the game i ve always been drawn to the 27.. i like its style and i like the way it handles. It s a tad complicated to learn but i ll get used to it in the end.

 

I have been playing on public servers on hyperlobby and the thing that gets me the most is that the battles are so unfair..

How is it fair to put up a 27 or a 33 vs an F15 ?? PILOT ASIDE, having a plane that carries autonomous radar missles vs a plane that has to keep a lock to even hope for a hit... com on.. that s rediculous! I can already hear peaple screaming.. "but u can fire first on the flankers.." and others i m sure are screaming something else.. well big deal.. all you have to do on the 15 is push the fire button and turn tail.. WOW that s some skill..

 

To prove my point, in one of the hyperlobby servers, after having spent a good 45 min on the Flanker (which i m pretty comfortable flying by now) and ending up with like 4 kills and 8 deaths i decided to "spam back" and show the F15s on the other side that anybody can fly one. I ended up with 9 kills and 8 deaths in 30 min.. The thing that gets me the most is that at some point i even got 2 kills just by SPAMMING 3 120s in the direction i was being locked on and then turning around and running away.. that s just lame. I m sure that plenty of F15 pilots will be greatly offended, but guys.. be realistic.. this is just the way things are (ok maybe it s just how I see things..that doesnt change the facts).

 

A shout to the developers.. this is a great game, the graphics are beautiful, flying around at low altitude is a rush, i m sure there are things that could be bettered but please first and foremost keep a balance.. It s not a written rule that since the game sells most in the US the F15 has to be "the better" plane..at least it shouldnt be that way..if there has to be a winner let it be because of the pilot .. not because of the plane. (Actually it s not even the plane, cause the F15 really looks and feels like some arcade game from the 80's, it s the ordinance it carries.. but i m sure if u were listening you got my point.)

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Flame away..

 

maybe anyone mentioned before, but take it as a challenge to fight in the russian planes. Learn their advantage, be aware of the opponents (f15) advantage and use tactics ! Be a good pilot, and and you will rule on most average skilled eagle riders! And if you think the F-15 with a good pilot is unbeatable, then just dont go offensive on them, just try to stay alive. And wait for the right time!

 

BTW, the russians also have fire and forget missiles! Kepp that in mind. It was frustrating for me (and sometimes it still is) to get killed by some "cowardish" f-15 pilot who spams his missiles into every direction. BUT: Wouldn't you do the same when flying F-15? Learn to fly the Rusiian crates well, and show the F-15s "who's da boss!" :pilotfly:

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mmmm here we go again. wich fighter is best. First of all: aim120 is not "autonomous". The F15 needs to guide it in the first stage, the missile only tracks by himself in the las 15 km, before that, you have the same chances than a s27/33/mig with semi active missiles. The f15 may have a stronger radar and might be a little more difficult to breake lock? (I don´t know since I have never touch a F15 in my hole time of useing Flanker/lomac) but esentially, in the first stage both sides have similar oportunities. F15 con launch aim120 in hoj mode... but the tracking head will not detect you unless reaches to some 15 km range of you and you still have to be in it glimbal limits. So, if you are fighting you must be aware of this technique, and some simple maneouvers will avoid this kind of threat.

In the other hand, the Su seriies have many advantages agains the eagle: better maneaouvers, a lo lot lot of fuel wich can give you a great advantage if you know how to use it.

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"To prove my point, in one of the hyperlobby servers, after having spent a good 45 min on the Flanker (which i m pretty comfortable flying by now) and ending up with like 4 kills and 8 deaths i decided to "spam back" and show the F15s on the other side that anybody can fly one. I ended up with 9 kills and 8 deaths in 30 min.. The thing that gets me the most is that at some point i even got 2 kills just by SPAMMING 3 120s in the direction i was being locked on and then turning around and running away.. that s just lame. I m sure that plenty of F15 pilots will be greatly offended, but guys.. be realistic.. this is just the way things are (ok maybe it s just how I see things..that doesnt change the facts)."

 

sorry to say this, but your "success" in the eagle, was more related to some su27/33 bad pilots who never thought in the posibility that you were fireing 120s in hoj mode.

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I wish it was like that .. that was the point of the post actually.. make ppl realize that if u r flying the flanker u r not fighting the pilot.. u r actually fighting the plane AND the pilot (or better the missile and the pilot..in this case)

 

this is part of the fun of the game IMHO if you don't feal your ready for online play go up solo and beat up on the AI a bit.:joystick:

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What I find dishonest about this whole game is you cannot enjoy the breathtaking Caucasus highlights anymore without being shot at by everyone. Where are good manners these days? Dropping flares and spraying chaff over the woods that make the birds scare away, like the marvellous Peregrine Falcon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peregrine_falcon.

 

Shame on you'all ;)

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mmmm here we go again. wich fighter is best.
I would say the question is about the timeframe of R-77 entering the service in RAF. And why was Su-27 unable to carry it? If it was unable to carry it.

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I would say the question is about the timeframe of R-77 entering the service in RAF. And why was Su-27 unable to carry it? If it was unable to carry it.

 

This has been discussed so many times that right now I only can answer "Don´t know"

In the flanker 2.X series f the sim, the SU27/33 couyld carry r77s.

In lockon, the developers say the modelled version of the SU in the sim can´t carry the r77s. Some people say it can, another ones say the modelled version has some characteristics that belongs to other version of the su27/33 and so it should be able to carry them.

 

At this point, I don´t know wich version of the su we are soposed to have. And I don´t care too much, I handle those eagles very well with my 27s :)

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I would say the question is about the timeframe of R-77 entering the service in RAF. And why was Su-27 unable to carry it? If it was unable to carry it.

 

Su-27's cant carry it for the simple fact they havent been made to talk with the missile. One even more simple reason is that R-77 is not in russian service.

Only for export. R-77's only in indian and Chinese Su-30's.

 

Hadjuk You have been shown countless times about this. why do you keep wanting to believe otherwise? Show me a book that lists Russian Su-27's to have that weapon. And dont bother getting "future upgrades" (by then early 90's) that never happened.

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Morbid curiosity makes me wait for his answer. :D

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My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum

CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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Boy oh boy do i feel like the new boy at school in 6th grade... fine whatever lets deal with that.. In all honesty i feel like your overwhelming knowledge has at least partially clouded your judgement. At least that goes for most of you. Maybe i m just too much of an idealist, but i wonder why nobody ever made a simulation about Hiroshima.. hmm jee maybe because nobody would want to play the Japanise side.. the game wouldnt be balanced now would it ? Some of you seem to be tuned into all the info you have come across in years about any plane you re into that you will never be satisfied with anything u get your hands on as far as simulation goes. As far as i know, and i dont know much, the game is not realistic as it is, and it s not fair either. Now hearing "hey that s the game take it or shut it" isnt exactly good to improve on the audience. Also, sure a great pilot laughs at the F15 but then i have to tell you you cant read.. i said PILOT ASIDE, if you fly the 15 you are at an advantage. Basically take 2 noobs, put one in the 15 and the other in the SU.. guess which will never come out as a winner ? Are you starting to get the point now ? For someone who is learning like me this is a GREAT PAIN THE REAR !!! Honestly why should i care if the F15 is actually a much superior fighter (true or not that s not something i m really interested in) in real life ? So basically you re telling me the game was designed to make one side win from the start by giving it the advantage ? That s absurd in my mind. I m sure it makes all the sense in the world when u r an F15 fanboy. People talk about time frame for this timeframe for that.. as far as i know the 120C shouldnt have been included if the game respects any sort of timeline.. And lets just stop here for 1 second.. .. back it up a bit.. What s all this fuss about the plane ?? I think the F15 should be improved on, as far as graphics go, what bothers me it s not the F15, it s the missile i m pi$$ed about, i dont really think much of the 15 to be completely honest, it probably has the worst cockpit of them all. It looks like you could play pong on the mfd.

 

Rhein, Kon, thanx for the input guys and sorry if i m pissing ppl off.. i can hardly keep something i havent digested in.. i usually have to spit it out.

I might be wrong, and i might change my mind on the future and come back and laugh at this thread but that s the way i feel right now.

Iron, my friend (not that i ever met you or even heard your voice on coms - but i ve heard it on tracks) thanx for the unvaluable help i got from your trainings, i got the divx videos before i had the game :D

 

Read all of the above in the context pls.. as in pilots always makes a difference one way or the other sure but that s not the issue, sure if u r experienced and know how to take adantage of this and that you will come out ahead, that s not the point either cause that goes both ways.

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Boy oh boy do i feel like the new boy at school in 6th grade... fine whatever lets deal with that.. In all honesty i feel like your overwhelming knowledge has at least partially clouded your judgement. At least that goes for most of you. Maybe i m just too much of an idealist, but i wonder why nobody ever made a simulation about Hiroshima.. hmm jee maybe because nobody would want to play the Japanise side.. the game wouldnt be balanced now would it ? Some of you seem to be tuned into all the info you have come across in years about any plane you re into that you will never be satisfied with anything u get your hands on as far as simulation goes. As far as i know, and i dont know much, the game is not realistic as it is, and it s not fair either

 

The game isnt very realistic but theres no point to make it worse either.

 

As far as i know, and i dont know much, the game is not realistic as it is, and it s not fair either. Now hearing "hey that s the game take it or shut it" isnt exactly good to improve on the audience. Also, sure a great pilot laughs at the F15 but then i have to tell you you cant read.. i said PILOT ASIDE, if you fly the 15 you are at an advantage. Basically take 2 noobs, put one in the 15 and the other in the SU.. guess which will never come out as a winner ?

 

This notion of yours confuses me... "pilots aside"? They dont fly alone.

 

If you mean both pilots new to the game then in my view this could hapen:

 

they both fly low as always, at each point the AMRAAM has as short range as an R-27ET seeker. Both fire at the same time. One gets missile warning and the other does not. Who wins? The Su-27 pilot.

 

Does that answer it for you? Not for me. It is irrelevant. You need to learn, and there arent 2 pilots the same. If online sessions veterans scare you about loosing you ego to the mud, maybe you should do some solo training or invite another newb to fly with you. You can do that online as well. New blood out there is plentifull and whats more most of them dont complain 1/10th as you do.

You can host your own games with difficulty level set as (unrealistic) easy as you like.

 

Morale of the story: If your too proud to loose dont jump straight away into the veterans bandwagon and then complain about balance. Blaim yourself not the game. Do your own balance for your own games first to learn.

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Tropikal, calm down. I understand your point but also, understand this: The F15 is not as superior as you think it is. So, practice a little more with the su27 and learn it´s weakness and it´s strenghs, and then you will realice that the suposed to be superior generation f15 is not so. If you wait a little, you will see a tutorial Im editing (in fact, Ironhand is, because my video editing capabilities are very poor je) about how to engage multiple enemies armed with active guided missiles useing a su33 armed with "only" r27s and you will see that is completly posible to beat them (and for those that could say that IA is different to humans, yes, it is, but IA can evade missiles much much beter than mst humans, so the tutorial I think it is valid)

 

Cali, pilotasso , gg... be more gentle with those that are not as skilled like you. There is no need to be sarcastic right?

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Ardillita, thanx for the input, and yes i am very frustrated, hence the harsh tone that i do apologize for..

 

Starting up is waaaay uphill.. i wasnt expecting a walk in the park.. just a more accomodating slope.. if you know what i mean.

 

I am looking for input left and right, it wont be long until i have more lomac training trakcs than actual movies on this pc. I wish there was tutoring online for this game lol. I have to thank the RvE, 77th, 169th and all those that took the time to teach me something out of the goodness of their heart and sacrificing their own time. Hats off to you guys.

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yes tropikal is right and i agree so many guys just fire like 4 missiles and turn away, get kills and fells strong.

Well u SUCK whoever it does, altough Su are good and they can take down Eagle if you know how, but again sometimes u cant do nothing cuse Eagle can carry so many actives and noob comes and fires like 4 to 6 at once and good luck to you in flanker(spam)

Pilotasso i noticed you always try to be very smart and yours to be last well **** off man leave hajduk alone he has right on his opinion and yes hes right even tough if russian SU27 cant cary actives, it has been proven that that particular airframe CAN cary active, so who cares i can imagine i am flying god damn Indian SU?

Or you will tell me now no we are flying russian version??

Well how do you know?

U work in Sukhoi plant?

You have all details about su what can and can't do?

U know exactly how in SU 27 radar works into details?

Are you teling me russians are so stupid to make active for india and China while they don't equip yourself with same?

Plz pilotasso don't try to be too smart and leave others alone if they think differnt from you.

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No guys... please, let´s bring peace here, there is no need to start a fight. For those "new" in the forum, you will have to understand that usually there are 2 sides here , those who think their favorite plane is the best of the best (like eagle fans do) and those who think different. So take the comments in a calm way, the war is inside the sim, not in the forum :)

 

The Su27/33 is not meant to carry the r77s, face that (and stop, before you charge against me, you must know that im a FAN of them, and i have never flown nothing else than a 27 or the 33). You just have to practise, and eventually you will see that the eagle sudenly becomes a sparrow jajajajaja

 

An a little advice: you see people online fireing 4 120s? it is easy: take a look at your ews system: if you don´t see radar signal, there is a great chance they are flying low and quiet, and a HOJ shoot is very probable: you just have to do 1 thing to get out of danger: do not follow a straight fly path, fly erratic, go up and down, do "S", that way there is no way a 120 can reach you with full energy without you detecting it on your ews, they will be easy to evade :)

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